Bromista
Grandmaster
^what he said.
Q) Why do I still play UO? A) PKs
- Thread starter Tonedog
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Darkarna
Grandmaster
Everyone forgets thieves... I know you put etc at the end, but the the poor old thief has had it pretty rough over the years and always gets left out. *sniffs*
thestand
Grandmaster
Kuchikuchiku
Apprentice
Just another "no-namer" blue adding his 2 cents here, I hope you dont mind.
In a way, I do appreciate the presence of red zergs in the server.It adds extra spice to the game. I also think the no cut zones are fine as they are. For my fellow blues, you just have to play smarter. I remembered our group doing our first baracoon champ 'ere. It just so happens it was a time when EVs were bugged and would attack your guildmates. We toiled for hours to finish that champ only to have MALES steal it from us. Sure, we cried in irc but you know what the staff and other players said? just group up with people and fight back, learn the game. Mind you, most of us came from sphere servers and have no idea how to play this kind of ruleset. Also, most of us ping 200+ regularly, but in the end, the power gamers just became a nuisance to us, they never really mattered. Sure we do end up dead once in a while, but we can finish our own champ spawns noiw, farm individually and enjoy the game. Heck, one of my guildmates can even field pvp despite the ping limitation. Just requip, go out there again and learn.
Regarding the changes about red sanctions, i dont really have anything to say. Most of people 'ere played OSI and are more experienced. They proly know more about what and what not to have.
For the reds, I know that trash talk is part of UO and it proly makes the game more exciting for you, but it wouldn't hurt if you just talk like a normal person once in a while and give proper advice to those who seem to cry about it. I mean instead of saying "TROLOLOLOL go play (insert some easy game here)" Why not give out actual advice that will help and make people more of a challenge for you. You don't need to baby these people ofcourse but a few good advise can go a long way. People have played this game waaay too long that they seem to forget that they are REAL NORMAL people functioning in their own society (supposedly) and instead act like asshats 24/7 just because of the anonymity that goes along with the internet. Of course in the end, you're not required to, but just something to think about.
I know I'm not saying anything new 'ere but since this is like a big deal to the server, I just wanted to speak out my own piece as part of the community, Proly for the few "unheards" out there.
Peace and I hope we can all find a good solution to this dilemma.
P.S. the THUG thing seems to be a good idea. Goodluck with that whoever is forming it.
In a way, I do appreciate the presence of red zergs in the server.It adds extra spice to the game. I also think the no cut zones are fine as they are. For my fellow blues, you just have to play smarter. I remembered our group doing our first baracoon champ 'ere. It just so happens it was a time when EVs were bugged and would attack your guildmates. We toiled for hours to finish that champ only to have MALES steal it from us. Sure, we cried in irc but you know what the staff and other players said? just group up with people and fight back, learn the game. Mind you, most of us came from sphere servers and have no idea how to play this kind of ruleset. Also, most of us ping 200+ regularly, but in the end, the power gamers just became a nuisance to us, they never really mattered. Sure we do end up dead once in a while, but we can finish our own champ spawns noiw, farm individually and enjoy the game. Heck, one of my guildmates can even field pvp despite the ping limitation. Just requip, go out there again and learn.
Regarding the changes about red sanctions, i dont really have anything to say. Most of people 'ere played OSI and are more experienced. They proly know more about what and what not to have.
For the reds, I know that trash talk is part of UO and it proly makes the game more exciting for you, but it wouldn't hurt if you just talk like a normal person once in a while and give proper advice to those who seem to cry about it. I mean instead of saying "TROLOLOLOL go play (insert some easy game here)" Why not give out actual advice that will help and make people more of a challenge for you. You don't need to baby these people ofcourse but a few good advise can go a long way. People have played this game waaay too long that they seem to forget that they are REAL NORMAL people functioning in their own society (supposedly) and instead act like asshats 24/7 just because of the anonymity that goes along with the internet. Of course in the end, you're not required to, but just something to think about.
I know I'm not saying anything new 'ere but since this is like a big deal to the server, I just wanted to speak out my own piece as part of the community, Proly for the few "unheards" out there.
Peace and I hope we can all find a good solution to this dilemma.
P.S. the THUG thing seems to be a good idea. Goodluck with that whoever is forming it.
Shortbus
Grandmaster
I love it when people named Tard like to talk about Sandbox games while calling out other guilds when he, himself, is a blue as well. The fact that you keep flapping your gums gives me a chuckle, though, so bravo to you sir. There is a lot I could say here, but to save myself the hassle and time, I will not. Your arguments are in no way/shape/form valid to be calling out other people until you yourself start trying to do something about it. Unlike you, we are working on a way to have fun and counteract this.
I personally have respect for all aspects of all players on this game...would Trammel be fine, maybe for some, however, it would take away the excitement and thrill and feeling of needing to watch your back every 2 seconds and worry about seeing an incoming red. Having one or two is fine, but when a zerg of 15-20 rolls through with flamestrike precast via scrolls onto a tamer, bard, or afk macro'r and then they sit there and start talking trash, well I'm sorry, taht does not deserve the trash talk. You outnumbered the person multiple to one...yay for you. If it was more of a fair fight, and you one, then well deserved...but don't sit there and talk ish and calling people n00bs and all of those derogatory names that I will not mention as I find them offensive because you can cast and drop a timed fs onto them. If that is what get's your rocks off then so be it.
The tears of the reds, imho, are even more salty than the blues in this thread. Reds have it so great...no cut zones, allowed to bank in towns other than Bucs...I remember OSI days being scared crapless of going to Bucs to do anything...nowadays, I believe it might be safe to just bank at Bucs constantly cause the only reds there are the NPC's and they can't hurt a fly.
Sure, flame if you want, but in all honesty, this is a game, we are all having fun, but when people start quitting because they can no longer have fun due to a certain group doing the above constantly in vast numbers, then yes, something might need to be done. Are we (blues) all PvP'rs and PvP material, no. Does it take a certain mind/skillset to be a capable PvP'r for a 1v1 contest, to an extent yes. But once again, when it's a constant zerg force, that likes to slander with racist/sexual/religious/etc remarks, then yes, there is a problem.
Honestly, I used to not care for LOLZ cause they would PK afk macro'rs too...however, they did their fair share of semi-fair PvP as well (yeah they would kill solo blues but also wouldn't run from a 7v4 or 7v5 fight either). I have more respect for them as a group than EQMS as a whole...I know that they combined forces and all, and that's fine. But it was better with smaller gank squads of 4-7 rather than 20+ man zerg squads.
And to the zerg force, since you just love being a mass ground zerg force, give me my carriers/tempest/voidray's and/or chargelots/archons followed by giraffe's all day...I'll Protoss some Zerg (love to do it).
TL;DR Cry your tears, play the game, there will be a solution and I have all the faith in @Shane and @Adam to keep this shard going and letting me relive my nostalgia high school years once again.
/endrant
/puts on flameproof suit
/continues his day
By the way...this is just my .02 cents...here's a nickel, keep the change. Apparently you need it.
lollo
Grandmaster
well yeah, honestly reds being able to use all banks is stupid. I'm ok with them being able to enter town (they do create pvp in brit which is nice) but they should only be able to bank in bucs (which is a ghost town now)
Lexington
Grandmaster
Then that would be your choice... wouldn't it? Play in the danger zone and assume the risk.
You could always try and argo some to attack you first... that way you can't take a count. Could lead to more of that blue against red fighting you guys all say you want??
lollo
Grandmaster
Ok but stop acting like you do/did pk if you only killed/kill 1 blue for every 8 hours.
Shit i sometimes kill more than that in my bard
Shit i sometimes kill more than that in my bard
halygon
Grandmaster
Lexington
Grandmaster
I don't have anything to prove here... I'm not the one scared of statloss (I've been there an done that back when it was hard) but a few, not all. of the so called hardcore reds on here sure seem to be. FFS they are even threating to quit. WTF?
aIck
Grandmaster
lollo
Grandmaster
Dunno, I wouldn't quit but it sure as hell would be damn stupid having to waste electricity like that
Weland
Grandmaster
So I agree but I also disagree. My two cents on this comment is yes players can come together and players can fight EQMS, however if all they have to do is respawn and keep coming then blue players will be forced to non stop deal with it.
Which means people who do not want to log in and just pvp will be forced to pvp according to EQMS timeline.
Now if there was a mechanic in place that everyone bands together kicks the shit out of EQMS then runs off and does a champ or whatever their little hearts desire while EQMS has to refit and restock they will be more inclined.
So basically you are right there is a player solution but EQMS isn't going to just take an ass whopping and be like, ok your right..... I'm sorry. They are going to respawn and keep coming until they get sweepy and go to bed.
GluttonySDS
Grandmaster
CoM rolls 10 deep on blues with kids who are known scripters...is that healthier for factions than a bunch of newbs in purple who are attackable by everyone?
Weland
Grandmaster
Also I don't see this really effecting EQMS because honestly it adds a challenge. Now they have to plan their attacks and make them more glorious.
I want to clarify I'm not suggesting that they be taken out for a whole day or anything but if they get their teeth kicked in and their heads get turned in they are going to be sucking or unable to initiate pvp actions for 1 or 2 hours.
I do agree that a balance needs to be placed but EQMS and other players who pk don't need and or deserve to be completely knocked out of the game to the point they can't have fun with pvp. Make it more challenging where they can't just throw endless numbers and win but I don't think players who get pk'd and cry should get an easy out either.
I farm and get chased out by pks but this is a sandbox and as such there are risks with sandbox games.
If you don't want those risks don't play sandbox games.
Perhaps a guild head count. For instance if x number of players heads get turned in from your guild your guild and or alliance will not be able to initiate open world pvp actions for x amount of time. Like saying hey your army just got it's resources depleted now you need to refit and restock before engaging in future conflict.
This will prevent them from just switching characters while the other character is in down time. If players are caught abusing this mechanic by just creating 9 different PVP guilds then they will be in violation of conduct rules or whatever.
I want to clarify I'm not suggesting that they be taken out for a whole day or anything but if they get their teeth kicked in and their heads get turned in they are going to be sucking or unable to initiate pvp actions for 1 or 2 hours.
I do agree that a balance needs to be placed but EQMS and other players who pk don't need and or deserve to be completely knocked out of the game to the point they can't have fun with pvp. Make it more challenging where they can't just throw endless numbers and win but I don't think players who get pk'd and cry should get an easy out either.
I farm and get chased out by pks but this is a sandbox and as such there are risks with sandbox games.
If you don't want those risks don't play sandbox games.
Perhaps a guild head count. For instance if x number of players heads get turned in from your guild your guild and or alliance will not be able to initiate open world pvp actions for x amount of time. Like saying hey your army just got it's resources depleted now you need to refit and restock before engaging in future conflict.
This will prevent them from just switching characters while the other character is in down time. If players are caught abusing this mechanic by just creating 9 different PVP guilds then they will be in violation of conduct rules or whatever.
Last edited by a moderator:
GluttonySDS
Grandmaster
Agreed with this...I think this shard has done a great job of balancing content for PVPers/PVMers(if anything, theres way more content for PVM than PVP).
There are plenty of penalties in place for reds -- I cant think of another server where if you die as a PK you are either out 50k gold or cant play 2 days.
Lexington
Grandmaster
I never suggested this... no one has ever suggested PERMANENTLY!
I wish more of you had of actually played the game in it's prime(before OSI fucked it up with item based PVP not trammel BTW) so you would know how it worked.
Can someone with more patients please describe the details of how the old short term system worked??
GluttonySDS
Grandmaster
Great post -- the rekt/Hi alliance has 50 actives, not sure why they cant kill the PKs that are such a problem.
GluttonySDS
Grandmaster
Also -- I agree that people should chill out with the trash talking, especially when you're using personal attacks. It's 2015.... we're all fgts for playing UO still so trying to talk shit is like arguing who is the bigger ***.
I think if we improved the PVP community in terms of shit talk it would probably make PVP a little more appealing to all involved.
I think if we improved the PVP community in terms of shit talk it would probably make PVP a little more appealing to all involved.
Boojangles
New Member
It's quite the conundrum, and I'm not quite sure how I stand on the issue myself. Yet, there are a few things I understand that help get a general summary of my feelings. When it comes down to it, always-on PvP simply must stay. The introduction of Trammie invalidates the entire concept, and I'm glad that will never be a thing here on this server. Of course, the real issue comes to the age old issue of reds vs blues.
That wonderful tension of a murderer being just around the corner brought about a unique feeling that isn't replicated by many other games. Naturally, it also facilitates player interaction and PvP gameplay. A true sandbox with a living and breathing community, unlike other MMOs where you group up just out of obligation in general. A heavy enough blow to reds would, of course, destroy the game's soul.
I can see both sides of the argument. On one hand, you have the reds. As stated above, they are a core part of the game. Dying isn't that big of a deal in UO as long as you have the logic to not bring things you aren't willing to lose. They may also facilitate community interaction on the level of blues asking for assistance to takedown some reds, which is quite neat in my opinion. Blues generally bring up the argument that it's a bit tiresome being killed over and over again, especially when the consequences aren't very large once you finally take a red down.
That concept in particular is the issue's root, and I don't really have a solution for it myself. Reds can make the game very exciting and unique, but can also drag down the experience as well. Walking around in a dungeon and looking out for PKs is exhilarating and exciting. Without something like that, the game would basically be Runescape if we're going to be honest. However, I must admit that being bombed down by a bunch of reds at the same time isn't very fun. Now, the counter to that would be to find a group yourself and have at them. You can even get a cool battle going down. Community interaction is an important part of UO after all. Yet, even if you kill all the reds, they can simply teleport back in with full gear, pots, etc ready to kill some more people.
And that's probably one of my biggest personal issues. With so many reds and groups of reds, it feels like they're less murderers and more of a faction that simply kill everyone with no consequence. When one has so much power on the game experience of others, there has to be consequences or restraints of some sort. Open PvP is great in my opinion, but this feels more like anarchy PvP instead of controlled Open PvP. You are a murderer, a player with the ability to kill another and prevent them from doing what they wish to be doing with their time. Limiters are naturally required to stop it from becoming massively rampant where people are just killing others everywhere. Being red should be a unique playstyle filled with its own tension; Doing your deed and getting away with it, else facing some sort of consequence.
But what kind of consequence should that be? I'm honestly not sure. Perma stat loss seems a bit intense, but temp stat loss is quite lenient. However, let's go back to what I believe is the main issue. Taking down a murderer feels empty, for he may simply come back again in full gear quite quickly or he can just log into one of his alts. Somehow, taking down a red should reward the player by getting them out of their hair for a good amount of time.
I'll probably get some shit for this, but I also believe that allowing people to have more than one account was probably one of this shard's biggest mistakes and can never be undone. Having so many characters trivializes so many things in my opinion. I'm sure we're all in agreement that UO is a very community driven game. I see many arguments in this thread claiming that if reds are causing you issues, you should join a guild and/or group up. I agree wholeheartedly. However, being able to have multiple murderers on your accounts trivializes nearly any non-permanent consequence they may have. It also devalues various character types and removes some community interaction that made UO so special. You can make characters for pretty much every single need you could possibly have. It devalues the core concept of finding someone else who can do/produce what you cannot when you can just log into your whatever and become completely self-efficient. It especially devalues crafters when everyone and their grandma can just log into their crafting alt real quick and fix something up for themselves. Maybe that's just me though.
That wonderful tension of a murderer being just around the corner brought about a unique feeling that isn't replicated by many other games. Naturally, it also facilitates player interaction and PvP gameplay. A true sandbox with a living and breathing community, unlike other MMOs where you group up just out of obligation in general. A heavy enough blow to reds would, of course, destroy the game's soul.
I can see both sides of the argument. On one hand, you have the reds. As stated above, they are a core part of the game. Dying isn't that big of a deal in UO as long as you have the logic to not bring things you aren't willing to lose. They may also facilitate community interaction on the level of blues asking for assistance to takedown some reds, which is quite neat in my opinion. Blues generally bring up the argument that it's a bit tiresome being killed over and over again, especially when the consequences aren't very large once you finally take a red down.
That concept in particular is the issue's root, and I don't really have a solution for it myself. Reds can make the game very exciting and unique, but can also drag down the experience as well. Walking around in a dungeon and looking out for PKs is exhilarating and exciting. Without something like that, the game would basically be Runescape if we're going to be honest. However, I must admit that being bombed down by a bunch of reds at the same time isn't very fun. Now, the counter to that would be to find a group yourself and have at them. You can even get a cool battle going down. Community interaction is an important part of UO after all. Yet, even if you kill all the reds, they can simply teleport back in with full gear, pots, etc ready to kill some more people.
And that's probably one of my biggest personal issues. With so many reds and groups of reds, it feels like they're less murderers and more of a faction that simply kill everyone with no consequence. When one has so much power on the game experience of others, there has to be consequences or restraints of some sort. Open PvP is great in my opinion, but this feels more like anarchy PvP instead of controlled Open PvP. You are a murderer, a player with the ability to kill another and prevent them from doing what they wish to be doing with their time. Limiters are naturally required to stop it from becoming massively rampant where people are just killing others everywhere. Being red should be a unique playstyle filled with its own tension; Doing your deed and getting away with it, else facing some sort of consequence.
But what kind of consequence should that be? I'm honestly not sure. Perma stat loss seems a bit intense, but temp stat loss is quite lenient. However, let's go back to what I believe is the main issue. Taking down a murderer feels empty, for he may simply come back again in full gear quite quickly or he can just log into one of his alts. Somehow, taking down a red should reward the player by getting them out of their hair for a good amount of time.
I'll probably get some shit for this, but I also believe that allowing people to have more than one account was probably one of this shard's biggest mistakes and can never be undone. Having so many characters trivializes so many things in my opinion. I'm sure we're all in agreement that UO is a very community driven game. I see many arguments in this thread claiming that if reds are causing you issues, you should join a guild and/or group up. I agree wholeheartedly. However, being able to have multiple murderers on your accounts trivializes nearly any non-permanent consequence they may have. It also devalues various character types and removes some community interaction that made UO so special. You can make characters for pretty much every single need you could possibly have. It devalues the core concept of finding someone else who can do/produce what you cannot when you can just log into your whatever and become completely self-efficient. It especially devalues crafters when everyone and their grandma can just log into their crafting alt real quick and fix something up for themselves. Maybe that's just me though.
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