Messremb
Grandmaster
exactly this on the reward side of it!!!
Reporting Bugs and exploits: Worth it or not?
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Bromista
Grandmaster
I think perma-banning is a mistake, but letting players keep the spoils of their exploits is a major, major, major, mistake. I think a few bank accounts need wiped (several, several members of $ and POWER have secured lots of lewt from RDA exploits and clearly their entire guilds are in on it) but I don't see that happening either.
And just because a known bug is fixed now doesn't mean it can't resurface or the same mechanics that allowed for exploitation in one facet of the game be able to be used in another. For that reason, this is a much bigger issue than being able to log out in one specific RDA. This is a cultural issue. This is a disciplinary issue.
That's what people like Hanes don't understand. Even though he has seen firsthand the damage an exploit can cause a server like this, he still just doesn't get it. Even though he threw an entire guild of players under the bus and had them banned from the server (remember that thing he said about the less players being banned the better, in regards to Tom not being perma-banned? Yeah, let that one sink in...) he still doesn't get it.
We have seen a pretty wide range of poor behaviors and punishments that may or may not fit the crimes.
Regardless of the scope, we need to swing the culture in the direction of honor and integrity instead of seeing how much we can get away with. This is where an improved bug reporter system comes in, and one is desperately needed my friends.
We are the testers. It's a small server, shit like this is going to happen. It's inevitable. Only the powers that be can curb the mentality of our community.
And just because a known bug is fixed now doesn't mean it can't resurface or the same mechanics that allowed for exploitation in one facet of the game be able to be used in another. For that reason, this is a much bigger issue than being able to log out in one specific RDA. This is a cultural issue. This is a disciplinary issue.
That's what people like Hanes don't understand. Even though he has seen firsthand the damage an exploit can cause a server like this, he still just doesn't get it. Even though he threw an entire guild of players under the bus and had them banned from the server (remember that thing he said about the less players being banned the better, in regards to Tom not being perma-banned? Yeah, let that one sink in...) he still doesn't get it.
We have seen a pretty wide range of poor behaviors and punishments that may or may not fit the crimes.
Regardless of the scope, we need to swing the culture in the direction of honor and integrity instead of seeing how much we can get away with. This is where an improved bug reporter system comes in, and one is desperately needed my friends.
We are the testers. It's a small server, shit like this is going to happen. It's inevitable. Only the powers that be can curb the mentality of our community.
I didn't know that and would be a little discouraging to an honest player...
wreckognize
Grandmaster
Maybe, if the player was as jealous as @Bromista ....
I don't think many players will stop trying to get a relic for themselves just because another player already has one. Players who earn their stuff usually enjoy their experience more anyways. It might seem insignificant but it's surely something I would take into account when deciding a punishment for such players.
Lexington
Grandmaster
Without perma bans you'll never get to the above. Real cheaters never change and unless you make example out of them... others that are maybe on the fence, with whats right and wrong, will follow in the cheaters foot steps.
Bromista
Grandmaster
It's really about ill-gotten wealth vs hard-earned wealth.
If I have a pixel boner for anyone's things, they sure aren't yours Mr. wreck. And if they were, no matter. I know I worked for what I have so there's no guilty conscience, that's something that cannot be replaced.
Well, Lex. It's kind of a fine line between effectively making an example out of someone and exterminating someone, I reckon.
I am of the opinion that only the handful of the most toxic players are worthy of perma-banning and I feel most of them have been dealt with (sup, felipe?)
The rest I feel can be made example of without driving them or their pals off the server. I've heard people say it for a while now and it continues to prove true: there's no better place to be in the UO world than UOF. So...harsh penalties without perma-banning is still going to leave no better options. They'll be back. They always come back.
I say start with a bank wipe. Maybe add a little humiliation of some sort. Something a little above and beyond jailing. A wall of shame on the forums, perhaps?
Why no Wall of Shame for offenders, @Shane?
Wall of @Shane
If I have a pixel boner for anyone's things, they sure aren't yours Mr. wreck. And if they were, no matter. I know I worked for what I have so there's no guilty conscience, that's something that cannot be replaced.
Well, Lex. It's kind of a fine line between effectively making an example out of someone and exterminating someone, I reckon.
I am of the opinion that only the handful of the most toxic players are worthy of perma-banning and I feel most of them have been dealt with (sup, felipe?)
The rest I feel can be made example of without driving them or their pals off the server. I've heard people say it for a while now and it continues to prove true: there's no better place to be in the UO world than UOF. So...harsh penalties without perma-banning is still going to leave no better options. They'll be back. They always come back.
I say start with a bank wipe. Maybe add a little humiliation of some sort. Something a little above and beyond jailing. A wall of shame on the forums, perhaps?
Why no Wall of Shame for offenders, @Shane?
Wall of @Shane
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Not exactly. Remember this is a business that relies on donations to keep things going at a more optimal level. Cheaters need to be dealt with harshly and the public should know about it. It sends a positive message and instills confidence. I'm sure they will continue working on it and that things will improve where necessary. They have MY confidence.
Goof luck to all.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
LOLLOLLOL
Master
Well, I am pretty sure wreckognize was involved on that dupe bug for PW/donation items back in the day (where I reported KL).
In fact, this guy was always pretty shady, and Kim Chi told me someone used to sell them items for really cheap for them (they didn't exploit the bug theirselves), idk if its a trustable information but....
just sayin
In fact, this guy was always pretty shady, and Kim Chi told me someone used to sell them items for really cheap for them (they didn't exploit the bug theirselves), idk if its a trustable information but....
just sayin
wreckognize
Grandmaster
truth is I just had a lot of gold and bod cloth back then, gifted to me from an old guildmate who quit the server around the time I joined. I got lucky and ended up ninja'ing the yew bank mall plots, which got me the attention of such undesirable players as the ones you mentioned.
Those dudes told me they had purchased the items legit at a time when they were for sale on the sink vendor as a bulk discount, which ended up being half the price that it is today. They were using me to get vendors to sell their ill-gotten goods, and because of the size of the mall and the amount of vendors, I wasn't able to know everything that was being sold there. Part of the reason I ended up taking daily screenshots of all the items being sold on the mall, to make sure nothing suspicious was going on, but it also helped the legit vendors there move their product and the mall ended up being a great thing for the shard.
When I helped staff uncover the problem, I let them know that these people had sold me the items for half price, and agreed to having staff delete half of the items I purchased. So nothing I have is anything less than legit, and I'm basically a hero.
The type of bug that was isn't something I could have ever known about, because I can't code or script at all. I'm just a newb when it comes to that sort of thing. I have actually found a ton of other bugs and consistently report them since then, even while being cash poor for months. A real cheater wouldn't do that, especially knowing that because of these rumors, staff could never reward me on par with the bugs I've reported because it would cause people like bromista to lose faith in them. So I've always done it for free.
Of course, I do like to jest about the possibility of getting a gold hued Boura for my efforts from time to time, which if you knew about the bugs I've reported you would agree that it was justified. But I would hate to make people any more jealous of me than they already are. It's kind of my fault for allowing people to think I'm some sort of crime lord in the first place, and I've done a lot to get people's jealous gaze off of me. Not that I expect that to ever happen.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
The only time I've ever been upset about the bug reporter rewards was when I helped a couple friends report a pretty huge bug last xmas, because I was on chat with a staffmember at the time. I had asked them to make sure both those guys got some kind of reward for their actions. Their christmas spirit truly warmed my heart during those cold winter months. We're talking about a shit-ton of quality items being able to be duped. But only one of those players got a reward. So that was a bit shitty but it was probably just an oversight.
Cheapsuit
Master
What we all need to try and understand is the difficulty for the admins when it comes to perma banning an account. There are a lot of things that must be considered when making a decision such as a perma ban... they have to weigh the good and the bad for the server as a whole before deciding. In no way do I condone cheating nor do I even know how to (yet 
) but tey to remember this isn't a subscription server so things aren't cut and dry here and for many reasons. Heck for all we know the alleged cheater may be the top donator of the server and may play a huge role in keeping it going etc... like I said I in no way condone cheating and the cheaters should be ashamed of themselves but running a freee server requires sponsorship and generous donations etc. so the best the admins can do is try to find the right balance which isn't easy by any stretch.
) but tey to remember this isn't a subscription server so things aren't cut and dry here and for many reasons. Heck for all we know the alleged cheater may be the top donator of the server and may play a huge role in keeping it going etc... like I said I in no way condone cheating and the cheaters should be ashamed of themselves but running a freee server requires sponsorship and generous donations etc. so the best the admins can do is try to find the right balance which isn't easy by any stretch.I would like to chime in here. We have no idea who donates and it has no bearing on jailing. None of that information is available in game or privately to anyone but Shane. If you try to play that card as an excuse in game, it often makes the situation worse.
Jimmy
Master
Thanks eppy for speaking out.
While I don't believe in conspiracy theories, can you shed any light on why such serious exploits which can net known cheaters millions of gp (and which can de-value hundred of real $ donos) go seemingly unpunished? That's the part I struggle to understand. Does a 2 day jail time seem sufficient for repeat offenders? I'm not suggesting perma-ban but removing ill-gotten gains doesn't seem unreasonable.
Seems like many players knew about it for months but staff had no idea?
While I don't believe in conspiracy theories, can you shed any light on why such serious exploits which can net known cheaters millions of gp (and which can de-value hundred of real $ donos) go seemingly unpunished? That's the part I struggle to understand. Does a 2 day jail time seem sufficient for repeat offenders? I'm not suggesting perma-ban but removing ill-gotten gains doesn't seem unreasonable.
Seems like many players knew about it for months but staff had no idea?
LOLLOLLOL
Master
You help staff uncover the problem? I am the one who solved it. Stop them lies now
rofl this is amazing, i stop reading after that
P.S. for fact, Kim Chi told me you were the one who found the bug and sold them items for real life money, sadly i didn't keep skype logs, but I am pretty sure you did never help the staff to solve this problem, since you are part of it
I have done the same thing for every character that I have found in a portal where they shouldnt have been. I have also know about this issue for a while and the minotaur portal was the last one having the problem. I thought I had fixed it completely the last time but alas it seems that I missed a couple of tiles.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
You help staff uncover the problem? I am the one who solved it. Stop them lies now
rofl this is amazing, i stop reading after that
P.S. for fact, Kim Chi told me you were the one who found the bug and sold them items for real life money, sadly i didn't keep skype logs, but I am pretty sure you did never help the staff to solve this problem, since you are part of it
You may have been the person who found out there was a problem, all I did was try to help them figure out who all was involved. Like I said I wouldn't have known about a problem like that. And I most certainly have never sold items for real life money. I have no idea how that works. I don't even have a paypal account. I'm a total newbie other than UO. But go ahead and believe everything Kim Cheater tells you, whoever you are.
Cheapsuit
Master
Wasn't playing any card nor do I know the alleged cheater or anyone here for that matter...im just stating we shouldn't be too hasty to perma bann people every time they break a rule or the shard may end up with no one left and no support. Was a totally unbiased opinion cause as I stated, I know none of you. My post may have left a bad taste in a lot of mouths but if you think about it for a minute you may see my point.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
he's just saying if you are a donator and try to play the ''I'm a donator and I can do whatever I like'' card, then they'll just get punished even harder.
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