PET SPEED CHANGE

[Tard the Paladin]

I think all the Tamer-PVP-OP question was taken by the wrong side.

A single PVP Tamer (with Nightmare) can't be beated in PVP by an Archer? This don't mean that you need to slow down the Pet and incrase the speed of the arrow to balance all.

Because a PVP Tamer requires A LOT of time (or money for the SS) to be raised, If an Archer will be strong enought to have 50% against tamer everyone will delete the tamer and create the Archer

But this is not "balance" because an archer can be trained in 5 hours, a tamer in 50 days.

A MetaTamer with MetaPet MAXED (2kk Egg + 3kk Stone + 10kk PS + 40kk Relic + Time/Money for the EXP) can't be beated by an Hidder-Mage? This is right!!! Because an Hidden-Mage requires 100k and 10 hours to be trained but a MAXED MetaPet it's and-game feature so if a single PK can't kill it and need to be in 2/3/4 people where is the unbalance?

It's unbalanced if a 100kk Template have 50% chance to survive against all the other template.

In my own opinion "balance" don't means that every template will have exactly same % to win against all other template instead Time/Money factor.

Balace, for me, is that more difficult/excpensive template to train is then more powerful that template will be.

People that play 1 hours at week and have only an Hidder-Mage with 5 full restock in bank can't cry because a 100kk Template have more chance to win againsthim.

I hope I have explained clearly my point of view.

The cost of training a template should increase your ability to handle mobs. It shouldn't give veterans a PvP advantage over those that don't play endlessly. The PvM benefit from meta stuff is more than enough compensation.

Spending gold and dono should have no bearing on PvP. The best PvP templates should remain easy to build.

There's a lot of balance in choosing farming spots and working in groups. If tamers want to kill high end mobs they either sustain a lot of risk by solo'ing it or they work in groups.

 

[TheFallen]

Cost is basically irrelevant since most prices are set by the player market and are therefore directly related to their usefulness / desirability.

Only things with fixed cost are the spider and the meta stone. Everything else would be cheaper if it wasn't that useful. So according to the argument that cost should = effectiveness I could buy a bow for 100m and argue it should one shot people and have a 1s swing speed because it cost so much or I could not spend 100m because I don't think the bow is worth that.

 

[Young Star]

I dont believe the cost of building a template should have any bearing on balancing completed templates in PvP.

 

[Engelschmitt]

I don't get it, this was supposed to be about pets being too fast in pvp and to solve that issue the GMs made the pets for factioners (the stuff thats supposed to generate pvp) faster? This doesn't make sense. Why were speeds nerfed for non factioners? I never see non faction tamers engage in pvp, they are way too scared to get their pet killed and having to grind up their skill points again. Why do the GMs seem to always forget about the time and effort it takes to do certain things. People go through the horrible grind of going from 50 taming to lvl 7 meta BECAUSE meta pets are supposed to be the most badass fighting machines. Thats why taming takes so long, thats why stuff is so expensive for tamers. It doesn't make sense to say "they are too strong (because they are fast? lol)" so we nerf them". They are supposed to be badass. Why do people who put in no time at all compared to tamers even get more of an upper hand against tamers? Where is the incentive to make a tamer? And lets face it even before the nerf meta pets werent any good in pvp. To my knowledge there was only a handful of people who even used them in pvp. And again, how does it balance things if you make the pets for pvp chars (factioners) actually faster? Have you guy tried navigating tight spaces (like the daemon spot in wind) with the slow pets? They get stuck 5 times on a two screen distance because they are just too slow to keep up even if you walk.

 

[sampsonized]

The speed update is so horrible. Hoping the staff can recognize their mistake, and change it back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tard the Paladin]

I don't get it, this was supposed to be about pets being too fast in pvp and to solve that issue the GMs made the pets for factioners (the stuff thats supposed to generate pvp) faster? This doesn't make sense. Why were speeds nerfed for non factioners? I never see non faction tamers engage in pvp, they are way too scared to get their pet killed and having to grind up their skill points again. Why do the GMs seem to always forget about the time and effort it takes to do certain things. People go through the horrible grind of going from 50 taming to lvl 7 meta BECAUSE meta pets are supposed to be the most badass fighting machines. Thats why taming takes so long, thats why stuff is so expensive for tamers. It doesn't make sense to say "they are too strong (because they are fast? lol)" so we nerf them". They are supposed to be badass. Why do people who put in no time at all compared to tamers even get more of an upper hand against tamers? Where is the incentive to make a tamer? And lets face it even before the nerf meta pets werent any good in pvp. To my knowledge there was only a handful of people who even used them in pvp. And again, how does it balance things if you make the pets for pvp chars (factioners) actually faster? Have you guy tried navigating tight spaces (like the daemon spot in wind) with the slow pets? They get stuck 5 times on a two screen distance because they are just too slow to keep up even if you walk.

There are several tamers that support the changes because its obviously out of whack when a strong PvM template had teleporting killing machines that could wipe out players with ease. With the pet speed change we now have some semblance of balance.

It makes total sense that the strongest PvM template is going to be balanced with a negative impact on PvP potential. The value of the tamer is still extremely high because its PvM ability isn't impacted. The only impact is that tamers must be more aware and farm in groups if they want to mitigate their risks. It makes sense to me that the strongest PvM template would be required to work in a group or avoid 1v1 PvP.

 

[Engelschmitt]

had teleporting killing machines that could wipe out players with ease.

thats just not true

 

[tankian]

There are several tamers that support the changes because its obviously out of whack when a strong PvM template had teleporting killing machines that could wipe out players with ease. With the pet speed change we now have some semblance of balance.

It makes total sense that the strongest PvM template is going to be balanced with a negative impact on PvP potential. The value of the tamer is still extremely high because its PvM ability isn't impacted. The only impact is that tamers must be more aware and farm in groups if they want to mitigate their risks. It makes sense to me that the strongest PvM template would be required to work in a group or avoid 1v1 PvP.

then nerf death beetle and ridable pet movement follow speed problem solved

 

[Tard the Paladin]

then nerf death beetle and ridable pet movement follow speed problem solved

Those might be worth while changes to add. I believe nightmares had their fireball timers changed. Some pets might deserve an edge in PvP if their PvM abilities are lackluster. I don't see anything wrong with a PvP tamer template so long as their PvM ability is balanced accordingly.

In regards to meta dragons, the pet speed decrease was warranted because metas have unparalleled PvM ability. It makes sense that they shouldn't be a top PvP template. The ability to recall to a high end mob and kill it and leave is left intact. The ability to sit and farm solo and then kill whatever PK comes along is less viable. That makes sense. There's also less chance that meta tamers will take counts on other PvM'ers that are in an RDA.

 

[StegcO]

All of you need to excuse me but I still think that a 120 tamer with MetaPet Maxed level and maxed relic must have more chance to fight against a pk than an Archer provo.

Here there is someone can tell us if was possibile, before the nerf, to kill a 120 tamer with MetaPet Maxed level and maxed relic?

Because if it was possibile it mean that the 120 tamer with MetaPet Maxed level and maxed relic was not so overpowered, was not invincible.

So why nerf it?

Inviato dal mio GT-I9505 utilizzando Tapatalk

 

[Engelschmitt]

the pet speed decrease was warranted because metas have unparalleled PvM ability.

Thats NOT why they nerfed it. The reason was that they were "too fast".

It makes sense that they shouldn't be a top PvP template.

When were they ever a top pvp template?

 

[Shane]

We will look into this.
Thanks!

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

Some pets might deserve an edge in PvP if their PvM abilities are lackluster. .

This was my thinking in my previous post about pet movement speed being higher for non-meta, pack pets. A pack of hell hounds or dire wolves should be decently fast to make them useful in PvP (Ramsay Bolton Style ).

 

[Bromista]

The cost of training a template should increase your ability to handle mobs. It shouldn't give veterans a PvP advantage over those that don't play endlessly. The PvM benefit from meta stuff is more than enough compensation.

Spending gold and dono should have no bearing on PvP. The best PvP templates should remain easy to build.

There's a lot of balance in choosing farming spots and working in groups. If tamers want to kill high end mobs they either sustain a lot of risk by solo'ing it or they work in groups.

All of you need to excuse me but I still think that a 120 tamer with MetaPet Maxed level and maxed relic must have more chance to fight against a pk than an Archer provo.

Here there is someone can tell us if was possibile, before the nerf, to kill a 120 tamer with MetaPet Maxed level and maxed relic?

Because if it was possibile it mean that the 120 tamer with MetaPet Maxed level and maxed relic was not so overpowered, was not invincible.

So why nerf it?

Inviato dal mio GT-I9505 utilizzando Tapatalk

O.k. so there are measures that can be put in place to reduce the effectiveness of the pets in PvP while still allowing them to be strong in PvM. They should be taken because really there should not be an insane advantage when using pets in PvP. The advantage has always been there however, it's impossible to deny that fighting with pets is going to make you stronger than fighting without. No matter if your aim is strictly to target players and not monsters or vice-versa.

A tamer is by default going to be stronger in PvP than a non-tamer unless pets are nerfed into oblivion. Pets being nerfed in PvP is 100% acceptable, but to say that at no point a player should have an advantage over another player just because they have invested more in either build or in equipment is a slippery slope. Anyone can invest more to give themselves an advantage in any situation if you really look at things. Investing more in stock on any fighting build gives you an advantage. But there should absolutely be a limit with pets.

Who in EQMS remembers what Ronin/@Marys'dog did to them a long time ago with that pre-patch chromatic dragon? He littered Sosaria with corpses, 3v1 4v1 didn't matter. Or anyone else...I watched him slaughter countless reds with that thing. It had crazy fire breath and crazy spell/melee damage. It was hilariously unfair. Fb was nerfed and skills capped at 100 vs players pretty much because of that chromatic.

Obviously pet movement has seen several different changes over time.

What we know: things can/have been tweaked and a new sweet spot can be found we just need to apply logic and make sure that staff's vision is clear. That being said this should not be a staff only, we will look into this kind of situation IMO. I think this one requires community feedback to not just be heard but really considered and implemented.

This topic just won't go away. It never will entirely and certainly not if changes keep getting made that are 100% at odds with the way things oughta be. That may sound unfair to say, hell it may be unfair to say because this could have easily been a mistake. Just wanna make sure careful consideration is being used here henceforth.

 

[Shortbus]

This was my thinking in my previous post about pet movement speed being higher for non-meta, pack pets. A pack of hell hounds or dire wolves should be decently fast to make them useful in PvP (Ramsay Bolton Style ).

Excuse you. The Starks use direwolves...and fuck the Boltons. #family

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

Just saying pack animals need some dev love.

 

[lollo]

100kk

 

[GoD PaRtiCal]

I don't get it, this was supposed to be about pets being too fast in pvp and to solve that issue the GMs made the pets for factioners (the stuff thats supposed to generate pvp) faster? This doesn't make sense. Why were speeds nerfed for non factioners? I never see non faction tamers engage in pvp, they are way too scared to get their pet killed and having to grind up their skill points again. Why do the GMs seem to always forget about the time and effort it takes to do certain things. People go through the horrible grind of going from 50 taming to lvl 7 meta BECAUSE meta pets are supposed to be the most badass fighting machines. Thats why taming takes so long, thats why stuff is so expensive for tamers. It doesn't make sense to say "they are too strong (because they are fast? lol)" so we nerf them". They are supposed to be badass. Why do people who put in no time at all compared to tamers even get more of an upper hand against tamers? Where is the incentive to make a tamer? And lets face it even before the nerf meta pets werent any good in pvp. To my knowledge there was only a handful of people who even used them in pvp. And again, how does it balance things if you make the pets for pvp chars (factioners) actually faster? Have you guy tried navigating tight spaces (like the daemon spot in wind) with the slow pets? They get stuck 5 times on a two screen distance because they are just too slow to keep up even if you walk.

Just because you don't see tamers in PvP, doesn't mean they aren't there. Guessing from your posts that you don't spend a hell of a lot of time PvPing. I see PvP tamers all over the damn place. The factions pull them out for different situations - like guarding bases and such. The speed at which they used to move was a big balance issue. If you didn't see that it was an issue, it means you had your eyes closed.

thats just not true

You're dumb, it is true.

then nerf death beetle and ridable pet movement follow speed problem solved

Death beetles poison was nerfed to greater poison in PvP.. next?

Thats NOT why they nerfed it. The reason was that they were "too fast".



When were they ever a top pvp template?

I doubt they nerfed pet speed due to meta's alone. I mean any high level pet moving that fast is unbalanced. Top PvP Template - ever see a stun tamer?


Also, @StegcO - what the hell is up with the "kk"'s - dammit, just use "m" like a normal person.

 

[lollo]

I love How He totally pulls numbers out of his Ass lol

I got 120 taming, lvl 7 meta with all relics and lvl 6 steed with all relics and i spent 60m at most lol

 

[GoD PaRtiCal]

I love How He totally pulls numbers out of his Ass lol

I got 120 taming, lvl 7 meta with all relics and lvl 6 steed with all relics and i spent 60m at most lol

60kk