Fix Spell Reflect and Going grey/criminal
- Thread starter Nubby
- Start date
High Plains Drifter
Adept
The people saying it shouldn't flag you have been proved wrong several times, but here's another scenario for you:
You're standing around with full reflect, then a blue comes up and strips your reflect down with mana drain. His buddy recalls in and they stun you before you prep a spell, they get off a sync dump and you die.
Same scenario, but your reflect wasn't stripped before the stun dump starts. Now, one of the explodes bounces and you survive the dump.
Please explain how in the first scenario the mana drains that knocked down your reflect didn't contribute heavily to your death? They clearly did and are definitely an aggressive act.
I'm guess the folks who see it differently don't know pvp beyond running in a group or being in the pits.
You're standing around with full reflect, then a blue comes up and strips your reflect down with mana drain. His buddy recalls in and they stun you before you prep a spell, they get off a sync dump and you die.
Same scenario, but your reflect wasn't stripped before the stun dump starts. Now, one of the explodes bounces and you survive the dump.
Please explain how in the first scenario the mana drains that knocked down your reflect didn't contribute heavily to your death? They clearly did and are definitely an aggressive act.
I'm guess the folks who see it differently don't know pvp beyond running in a group or being in the pits.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
It didn't. While you were being mana drained, you could have recalled. Not recalling when you first realized an attack was coming was the major contributor to the death.
Just because you had reflect on doesn't make it ok to just ''stand around'' man, gotta play UO on your toes
Bromista
Grandmaster
I wouldn't say they don't know PvP beyond ganks or duels, that's going a bit far.
But they certainly want every advantage available to them and knowledge of a flawed game mechanic might just give them that advantage.
Look, people have gotten free dumps on me only maybe a dozen times and mostly at champ spawns with tons blues around. Someone tries to dump my scribe tamer when a champ is out, it blows up on them, and I type lol as I finish the champ.
Afterwards I want free reign to eat that nerds face without flagging just as he had free reign to dump on me. Making a player flag upon the initiation of attack does not take his freedom to do so away, so why with current mechanics upon being attacked do I not have that freedom to return fire bestowed upon me?
Please do NOT say I should just flag to the world and/or take a count. I would like a more creative response than that.
This absolutely an issue. Not a major one, but it's more than a minor one. It's just...an issue. The creative response is yeah, let's find a solution instead of making players deal with it.
That being said, this would not be the first time creativity has been frowned upon here.
I've said my piece every way there is to say it which has really mostly been repeating myself to drive the point home and to no avail.
But they certainly want every advantage available to them and knowledge of a flawed game mechanic might just give them that advantage.
Look, people have gotten free dumps on me only maybe a dozen times and mostly at champ spawns with tons blues around. Someone tries to dump my scribe tamer when a champ is out, it blows up on them, and I type lol as I finish the champ.
Afterwards I want free reign to eat that nerds face without flagging just as he had free reign to dump on me. Making a player flag upon the initiation of attack does not take his freedom to do so away, so why with current mechanics upon being attacked do I not have that freedom to return fire bestowed upon me?
Please do NOT say I should just flag to the world and/or take a count. I would like a more creative response than that.
This absolutely an issue. Not a major one, but it's more than a minor one. It's just...an issue. The creative response is yeah, let's find a solution instead of making players deal with it.
That being said, this would not be the first time creativity has been frowned upon here.
I've said my piece every way there is to say it which has really mostly been repeating myself to drive the point home and to no avail.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
I personally play a solo red scribe. Most of the day is spent playing massively outnumbered. As soon as my reflect gets taken down, I leave, until I can replenish it.
It's more of a combination of patience and reason in this case, also, having tested the reflect mechanics does help. Knowledge is power, after all.
And yet you still dodged any discussion pertaining to the downsides to OP's fix, which I have previously mentioned.
It's UO man, kill or be killed dun
High Plains Drifter
Adept
When one player attacks me, I want to fight, not recall away. With correct mechanics, that guy should be fully attackable and able to be hit with exp pots.
With current mechanics, I'm having to wait until he's fully flagged before we can actually get down to some pvp.( I'm also looking for an escape route if he calls in.)
I want things that create pvp between prepared players looking for a fight. Current mechanic help people with certain play styles guarantee victory.
Thats a real troll answer. He said he tried to prep a spell and was stunned.. say the spell was recall.. what then? You are jusr trolling at thia point.
And not everyone wants to run as soon as their MR is stripped.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
halygon
Grandmaster
I do?
Do you like making outrageous ASSumptions? Just because I do not use these tactics or mechanics does not mean that I cannot appreciate or understand how they attribute to the game that we know. Its called being impartial, which is something I can see you know very little of.
Why the hell are you standing still while someone attacks you? Anyone doing this is asking to die.
Second, why are you relying on Magic Reflection to keep you alive in PvP? Anyone who does this is also asking to die.
Third, I typically run solo and I use inscription. I fully understand how stripping down a persons reflect without flagging works and how it is used. I have been at the butt end of that tactic. Even with all of this, I support the ability for someone to do that. There's also a risk involved, you guys act like there's a big number above each person's head that says how many circles of reflect are left -- There's obviously not and when someone drops spells to reduce your reflect, they are taking a risk that their spell will not break the reflect. If they break the reflect, they flag and can be attacked. Just like everything else in Ultima Online, its risk vs reward.
Fourth, those mana drain(s) that knocked down their reflect didn't contribute at all to their death. Their stupidity clearly and definitely is the cause of death.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
BUT ITS AN AGRESSIVE ACT GRRRR lol
PARAGORNS!!
PARAGORNS!!
High Plains Drifter
Adept
"Standing around" is a figure of speech. I could be running around in goddamned circles or great big zig zags in that scenario. Doesn't matter.....stripping reflect is ENGAGING SOMEONE IN COMBAT. Dropping reflect is equivalent weakening or clumsying someone -it drops their defenses and makes them more easily killed.
If it's not aggression, how come it knocks off circles of reflect? True beneficial or neutral spells don't use up circles or give the "bounce" graphic.
halygon
Grandmaster
Why would you run in a circle or do zig zags while someone is droping combos on you? Do you WANT to die?
This is a pretty piss poor argument, especially on this shard where running is an art form. If you are attacked and run, it is near impossible for someone to kill you.
I think what you guys are completely missing here is that UO doesn't define aggression the same way that you are. UO is fickle, it doesn't follow many hard coded rules. Why does casting a spell on yourself remove circles of reflect? Or why does one spell not remove all of your relfect, i mean if we are talking realistically here and "logically" wouldn't a single spell like magic arrow just bounce on the magic reflect till the reflect was gone ... and then hit you? No, instead if reflects once and then hits you. Things are NOT LOGICAL in Ultima Online -- STOP trying to make it so.
Plain and simple, UO does not see a spell bouncing off a magic reflect as aggressive or a need to flag the casting player. It's not entirely logical (although I am sure there is a reason in the underlying code design) but it is definately NOT discriminating towards one group or another. There are both benefits and detriments to how it works. Learn how you can use it to your advantage as an attacker and also as a defender.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
or at least try to come up with some better way to argue with diverse mechanics that helped get UOF to the top
wreckognize
Grandmaster
Nobody's arguing with that statement.
However, UO doesn't define a reflected spell as an agressive act towards the person reflecting it, rather, it considers it an agressive act on yourself, which does not make you a criminal.
High Plains Drifter
Adept
This is the first server I've played that defines it as such. I think it's broken and see some familiar names from other servers in this thread that agree. I'm predicting we see a sticky thread from staff addressing this just like the broken mount stamina mechanic.
UOF had done well in spite of a few things that aren't right pvp-wise.Very good to see staff addressing things that don't seem "right" to the community. This falls in that category.
thestand
Grandmaster
So it looks like only 2 people are against changing how reflect works.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
sorry guys, unfortunately you've sofar failed to sway me over to your side of the argument.
so what if this is the first server you've played that defines it as such? @High Plains Drifter ? This is also the first server you've probably played on where the circles work the way they do also. The mechanics here works towards an overall balance that I think ''it looks like'' (@thestand )most of the people who agree with OP are too new to the server to understand yet. If not just the mechanics themselves. lol
pahleeese
so what if this is the first server you've played that defines it as such? @High Plains Drifter ? This is also the first server you've probably played on where the circles work the way they do also. The mechanics here works towards an overall balance that I think ''it looks like'' (@thestand )most of the people who agree with OP are too new to the server to understand yet. If not just the mechanics themselves. lol
pahleeese
High Plains Drifter
Adept
What do you mean by this? Having correct # of circles for reflect and scribe bonus? Pretty basic UOR mechanics, man.
You are experiencing denialism.
Some people believe the earth is flat too...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
halygon
Grandmaster
This is no where near the same thing as no stamina loss.
The staff has never made changes to things that "don't seem "right" to the community." Any changes they have made has been by their own assessment and done in a way that THEY feel is best. There are hundreds of items that you can find on this forum that have never even been spoken about by the shard staff -- and that is because they are items that do not need to be changed to create a better player experience. This topic falls under THAT category.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
exactly. you have no idea how the spell even works here. If you ask me, total troll. But that's ok. I can relate man I have played other servers as well, and had to get used to the mechanics here at first. But you'll find that it is very logically balanced, despite first impressions.