PvP Balance - A Modest Proposal

[Streets]

Swamp dragons were essential on OSI, as they reduced player damage by 20% as well. I think they're fine here, because they're expensive but not prohibitively so for those who want a relatively small boost in power. Even if you only made 100k per hour farming, that's about 10 hours of work. Not terrible, and helps the economy.

As for AR clothing, I've never understood why it exists. Why create an item that permanently makes all characters stronger against a specific class without a counterbalance? If we're going down this road, where's the +magic resist patch?

The Commanding Lord armor is another example of this. It's a blessed suit of 45 AR meddable armor, again without a counterbalance, and only four people have access to it.

Again if only 4 people or even a small percentage has something it's fair to say the odds of you having a situation it effects you is small. That was a reward for being here then... 5 years down the road people may be complaining about items we have now?

Not that I disagree with anything you said I am just pointing out the issue is sub .01% chance it effects anyone really.

I wouldn't mind more unique items osi never had though. We have charged traped charges, talismans, armor patches I would love more items actually. How about a magic resist/reflect patch... Maybe leg slot or gorget something g different?

How about items that hold charges of magic reflect like traped pouches or rune books? What about weapons that where in osi and also era correct weapons that had chance on hit!? Chance on hit lightning?

 

[girana]

get rid of alchy bonus for explo pots
up the min. value of greater heal pots
dont allow explo pots while using 2h / 1h+shield

 

[TyroneG]

Again if only 4 people or even a small percentage has something it's fair to say the odds of you having a situation it effects you is small. That was a reward for being here then... 5 years down the road people may be complaining about items we have now?

Not that I disagree with anything you said I am just pointing out the issue is sub .01% chance it effects anyone really.

I don't really know where this 9 armor figure is coming from. Ring, earring, sash, outer torso, middle torso, bracelet, shoes. That's 21 armor. Not a negligible amount by any means.

Maybe I am still just a bit sour from having my layering deeds from all my armored faction robes removed (6 of them now sit in a chest unused), but I still feel like allowing players to gain such an advantage is the wrong direction. Even if it is only a few people taking advantage of this. Hell, even when I was running around with 7 layered/armored faction robes I could still be objective enough to see that it was an unfair advantage and only benefited the rich. I just was under the mindset that if they removed the ability to do so with faction robes they would have done so for these +3 AR patches as well. Just make it so that only 1 armored clothing can be equipped at a time. This would be far better of an outcome for the +3 AR abusers than simply unlayering all faction robes like they did to the few of us abusing faction robes.

I'd just as soon they get rid of faction armored robes and wish they would have never added any +AR clothing in general. If armor and/or melee damage is an issue either adjust the damage or adjust the armor rating for all armor across the board. Allowing people to min/max for an additional 21 armor is bad no matter how much the cost/availability.

On that same subject I wish they would get rid of faction commander armor.

 

[healmagePRO.]

Stay on topic noobs. This is why nothing ever gets changed. They just got bombarded with 18000 problems and potential resolutions from several different inputs and will barely even give it any of them a second thought. Disable meta talismans in pvp. Discuss the rest in other threads or areas. Otherwise eppy will say but 50 people ramble with different suggestions and nobody can even stay on topic as justification for not doing anything. On a side note, I agree about armor patch nonsense. Wands just need a delay for offensive wands after explo casted or removed all together. Increase stun CHANCE who gives a fuck about duration at this point I'd just love to stun somebody.

 

[Streets]

I don't really know where this 9 armor figure is coming from. Ring, earring, sash, outer torso, middle torso, bracelet, shoes. That's 21 armor. Not a negligible amount by any means

Can't armor a sash nor is there a sash layering deed. You can layer a sash to earings or ring etc.

Outer torso is the robe that cost nearly a mill and no longer generated so it will slowly die out naturally.

Middle torso can't be patches nor is there a deed for middle torso

Shoes can't be equiped with plate legs I tried they don't work, who's gonna use +3 robe in a shoes slowly when you can have much more from plate legs?

That leaves earings, ring, and bracelet each having a +3 armor patch... 3 x 3 is 9 which is where that comes from.

To take a note from the trolls on this forum.. if you don't like being disadvantaged not being rich get rich then.

 

[Genocide Pete]

Plate legs don't prevent one from equipping footwear.

 

[Streets]

Funny my thigh boots won't equip with my plate leggings

 

[TyroneG]

Can't armor a sash nor is there a sash layering deed. You can layer a sash to earings or ring etc.

Outer torso is the robe that cost nearly a mill and no longer generated so it will slowly die out naturally.

Middle torso can't be patches nor is there a deed for middle torso

Shoes can't be equiped with plate legs I tried they don't work, who's gonna use +3 robe in a shoes slowly when you can have much more from plate legs?

That leaves earings, ring, and bracelet each having a +3 armor patch... 3 x 3 is 9 which is where that comes from.

Guess the available sash layer deed simply layers a sash to earring. Not sure why it even exists anymore. Middle torso does exist and you can patch a normal armor robe then layer to middle torso so not sure what you are talking about there.

18 additional armor instead of the 21 armor that I stated earlier. Outer torso, middle torso, shoes, earings, ring, bracelet.

To take a note from the trolls on this forum.. if you don't like being disadvantaged not being rich get rich then.

I've got plenty of money. I think the point is that you shouldn't have to spend mills in order to be on the same level playing field (in PVP) as anyone else.

Stay on topic noobs. This is why nothing ever gets changed. They just got bombarded with 18000 problems and potential resolutions from several different inputs and will barely even give it any of them a second thought. Disable meta talismans in pvp. Discuss the rest in other threads or areas. Otherwise eppy will say but 50 people ramble with different suggestions and nobody can even stay on topic as justification for not doing anything. On a side note, I agree about armor patch nonsense. Wands just need a delay for offensive wands after explo casted or removed all together. Increase stun CHANCE who gives a fuck about duration at this point I'd just love to stun somebody.

Yea sorry, I should have just made another thread. I'll keep the rest of my responses on the subject of talismans and swamp dragons. I'd be happy if they just changed those..

 

[Streets]

Guess the available sash layer deed simply layers a sash to earring. Not sure why it even exists anymore. Middle torso does exist and you can patch a normal armor robe then layer to middle torso so not sure what you are talking about there.

18 additional armor instead of the 21 armor that I stated earlier. Outer torso, middle torso, shoes, earings, ring, bracelet.



I've got plenty of money. I think the point is that you shouldn't have to spend mills in order to be on the same level playing field (in PVP) as anyone else.



Yea sorry, I should have just made another thread. I'll keep the rest of my responses on the subject of talismans and swamp dragons. I'd be happy if they just changed those..

Learn to adapt

 

[Grish'nak]

Good luck trying to get change in pvp. They don't care. Pvp doesn't sell donos. People needing money for meta pets and talisman does.

 

[Streets]

I stand corrected for shoes just want to the test server, but middle torso is plate chest so you won't see anyone with a +3 inner torso when they can have a plate chest

 

[shirtandpantsman]

Step 1 and most important step - get rid of armslore and spirit speak bonus for talisman/PVM

this will encourage people to have more diverse templates and you could PVP and PVM on the same character

I am mainly a loner who does pvm, but if a pk comes at me I fight them, if I see a blue I don't like I try to murder them, but I do it all on the same character

edit: if we really need some accuracy/mana bonus for PVM, then there's got to be a better way than using 100 skill points

 

[Baby Blue]

Remove any all talisman, meta, relic effects (passive or active) on any PVP combat situation. I would prefer whether they are aggressor or not, but if nothing else disable it as soon as any damage is dealt. These items were added under the premise that they would have no impact on PVP. Staff has done a fairly decent job at balancing meta pets so that they are not that much stronger than normal dragons in PVP situations. Should do the same with talismans.

Same situation with swampies. Remove effects as soon as they enter any PVP situation.

Make firebreath randomized instead of the system now - only activates after a certain amount of time and able to be "loaded". Instead firebreath can go off any time.

Get rid of multiple layered items with +3 armor patch. You got rid of armored faction robe layering. Be consistent.

Increase bandage timer by 2 seconds. Remove the 2 second penalty for being poisoned while bandaging and make it so that multiple bandage slips heal slightly more than the current amount. This would hopefully make PVM dexxers a bit more viable as far as tanking/healing while also balancing the incredibly fast bandage times in PVP.

Increase stun rate and/or change stun and para blow length to 4 seconds. Too much running and the stun rate seems abnormally low here. This would cut down on incessant kiting and make people focus more on crossheals and positioning.

Make it so that pots can be thrown with bows in hand. Never really understood why this mechanic was implemented, but I don't see how it could become that much overpowered.

Make tamers require the amount of lore needed to tame the base level of creature in order to control. I.e. a mare (whether this be a normal nightmare, nightbear, nightllama, etc.) should require 90 lore. OR make tamers require double the amount of skillpoints of taming required to tame a creature in both taming/lore. I.e. mare normally takes 90 taming so 180 skillpoints in taming/lore in order to control. There is no reason that by having 120 taming a person should be able to drop their lore to 20 and pick up 80 skillpoints at no cost while still being able to control a mare+dragon.

Remove the no stun/para blow while a tamer mechanic as after the previous fix these templates would actually require the tamer to sacrifice something instead of get them at no cost. If a tamer is crazy enough to drop resist, meditation, or something in order to incorporate stun into their template let them. They are actually having to make tradeoffs in order to do so.

I think it may have been changed already, but if not change it so that stun chance scales based on anatomy level instead of only requiring a base of 80 anatomy. Conversely, make it so that inscription gains levels of reflect based on skill level per 10 points (similar to alchemy) instead of 100 inscription or nothing.

Slightly increase the next spell delay ("You have not recovered from casting another spell"). You most notice how fast this is on smaller spells - mainly mini heal. Think this would be a lot better for dueling as it would put more emphasis on timing a gheal in between damage instead of spamming an uninterruptible mini heal over and over. This also would hopefully help with the wand problem I talk about below.

Wands:

Not sure what the solution is with these. I was mostly against them when they were added due to how they had affected PVP on UOG. PVP was one button weaken/lightning wand macros that completely take any skill out of the game. PVPing without wands there was practically unheard of. Before wands were introduced here I enjoyed the change from UOG; being able to actually see and heal ebolt syncs, etc. on the field was a breath of fresh air. It took some time, but PVP is starting to be the same way here now.

That said, I'm not sure if the best solution is to outright get rid of them. I would be fine with it either way, just as I was when they were added. I stand by my position that either wands should be available to everyone or nobody at all.

If nothing else they should be changed in the following ways:

For starters, it should definitely at least be made impossible to weaken/lightning wand. As I said earlier, if the next spell delay is made a bit longer, hopefully it would solve this alone. If this alone does not solve the issue, I believe a slightly longer cast time for lightning wands specifically would be a better solution than further increasing the object delay for wands. With the object delay they already feel clunky, so I would much rather a longer cast time.

It would be ideal if there was no delay macro in the clients, however that is practically impossible. I'm not sure you can really change wands in a way so that they can't be synced with explosion with these frame perfect delayed macros. The problem you will run into is that if you increase the delay so much that it can't be synced they will be basically useless anyways. Maybe there could be some spell mitigation system like (I believe) An Corp used to use in which if an explosion spell hits any lightnings cast from lightning wands are resisted for the next split second. That way they could still be used offensively to chase people down while also solving the 1 button sync issue. Haven't really put much thought into this, so could be a decent idea or could be complete trash. If they were changed in this way they could also lessen the very long item use delay on wands that currently make them feel so clunky.

+1. Great suggestion.

 

[shirtandpantsman]

+1. Great suggestion.

all your guys creativity is great, but when you're looking to improve any complicated system, you try to do the most realistic, least expensive things that will net the most benefit

PVMers wasting 100 skill points (arms lore/spirit speak) immediately puts them at a disadvantage against a PK who doesn't care about killing mobs and didn't waste the 100 points

this is an easy thing to turn off/on and measure results

you guys are asking for all sorts of effort from the staff that might not be worth the work just to try out a fun idea

 

[Young Star]

Like what was said in discord. I think nearly everyone that voiced an opinion would be happy with, at the least, making it so talisman effects are turned off when you aggro onto another player. I know some want it for every pvp scenerio but would settle for just aggro.

Making it disable for any pvp action would be too easy to grief. some stealther walks in and aggros a defenser surrounded by mobs just to see them freak out when their talisman deactivates. A stealther would be able to deactivate everyone's talisman in a champ or farming spot pretty quickly.

Swampy defense is only against mobs. They are hardly a factor in PvP if you take out defense talisman effect for aggressor. They are much more attainable than a max talisman as well. Swampies are pretty low on the totem pole for pvp balance imo.

i want to see gheal and heal wands to work for everyone. It's pretty imbalanced when nearly every red is a factioner and has an extra option for healing on the run regardless if they are fighting another factioner or not.

 

[shirtandpantsman]

Like what was said in discord. I think nearly everyone that voiced an opinion would be happy with, at the least, making it so talisman effects are turned off when you aggro onto another player. I know some want it for every pvp scenerio but would settle for just aggro.

Making it disable for any pvp action would be too easy to grief. some stealther walks in and aggros a defenser surrounded by mobs just to see them freak out when their talisman deactivates. A stealther would be able to deactivate everyone's talisman in a champ or farming spot pretty quickly.

Swampy defense is only against mobs. They are hardly a factor in PvP if you take out defense talisman effect for aggressor. They are much more attainable than a max talisman as well. Swampies are pretty low on the totem pole for pvp balance imo.

i want to see gheal and heal wands to work for everyone. It's pretty imbalanced when nearly every red is a factioner and has an extra option for healing on the run regardless if they are fighting another factioner or not.

why bother with enabling/disabling talismans? if youre fighting somebody over a spawn, your pvm abilities should still work

this would lead to more blues choosing not to try and fight off pks at events or champs or whatever, why get involved and lose my talisman bonuses, I'll just sit in the back and attack the spawn.. and if everybody does that then pks will win even more as they pick people off one by one

 

[girana]

why bother with enabling/disabling talismans? if youre fighting somebody over a spawn, your pvm abilities should still work

this would lead to more blues choosing not to try and fight off pks at events or champs or whatever, why get involved and lose my talisman bonuses, I'll just sit in the back and attack the spawn.. and if everybody does that then pks will win even more as they pick people off one by one

because ppl would just gate in trash chars to attack everyone to lose their tali.

 

[healmagePRO.]

Yea sorry, I should have just made another thread. I'll keep the rest of my responses on the subject of talismans and swamp dragons. I'd be happy if they just changed those..

ye one step at a time...... maybe we can get it done

 

[baseball dad]

Tbh i see shit like target closest spell ganks or 1 button wand syncs way more toxic than the shit newbs cry about here.

If staff gives into the baby tears of a few very bad players can they atleast remove the red aggro by mobs to even it up?

My tamer has no problem smoking talisman pks and i have 0 wrestle. I think some of you just need to learn the game before bringing your grey screen tears here.

 

[Xiulan]

If talis were going to be changed it should have been done a long time ago, like back when you could afk macro them and they were easier to obtain. To change them now, after many people have invested massive amounts of time and money into them based on what they currently do, just seems like a bait & switch.