"Mass" recruiting guilds... daheck!?

[Sir.]

Oh aye, maybe I should clarify that I don't think EQMS was a bad guild, as a TON of fine folk joined it just for the protection, which is understandable when the red stampedes are the only thing "organized" about them. It was just their leaders, correct, that were the problem. Most of the rest of the guild were awesome to adventure with honestly.

Thanks fer bringin that up again, forgot to touch on it earlier!

 

[ZoeyLove]

I still think EQMS wernt a problem, but rather exploiting the shit out of the target closest hot key by using 8 to 20 spell cannons to run at players mashing their homing missile hot key was (well IS).

If that hot key (and could also argue easy bar pull) was taken away or simply altered to actually hit the closest target (mob, player or guildie), their strength would have diminished big time.

I really don't miss being charged at by 15 children on meth (or cough syrup) who discovered sallos from a recovering but 'helpful' addict.

I guess Albion has target friendly "pvp" or I'm sure EQMS#2 would be in full effect on uof.

You do realize both steam and razor have a feature enabling you to use target closest to the exact same effect as sallos right? It’s not a single assistant program issue, it’s a 2018 ultima online is only played WITH assistant clients issue.

 

[wkstrm]

On another shard I used to play the guild I was running had to rely on mass recruitment since we were a european guild for european players. Trying to make a base for other people in our time zone to have someone to hang out with without having to stay up all night on get up really early to play. We were to small to really be a niche guild, but we tried to do things in such a way that everyone would benefit from joining us.

We we're never big on the PVP scene or the IDOC scene, nor on the PVM really but we gave our regular and casual members someone to play with when they wanted. There was almost always someone online. We had a quite big rooster compared to many other "smaller" guilds, but we had a lot of inactive players or very casual players.

 

[wkstrm]

You do realize both steam and razor have a feature enabling you to use target closest to the exact same effect as sallos right? It’s not a single assistant program issue, it’s a 2018 ultima online is only played WITH assistant clients issue.

I might be one of the few that rely mostly on UO client set "macros".

 

[ProdigyOsi]

Werkt has me, that's why everyone wants to join Werkt.

 

[Zog'orium]

If this were the case, wouldn't the Knights, Orcs, and Trin be bursting at the seams, while werkt would have disappeared long ago having achieved all the pixels while offering everything? Seems big guilds that make their members rich can do a pretty good job of keeping people engaged and playing.

nub blah bout orcs...oomie luv'or !!!


HOOWAH!!

 

[khajja]

nub blah bout orcs...oomie luv'or !!!


HOOWAH!!

the world could use more pigfaces.

 

[Jazzy Jay]

I like this thread.

Target closest is the primary mode of PVP for many of the current guilds out there.

You see them mountain goats? Cute.

 

[Edwin Fox]

I couldn't agree with ye more, Sir sir.

As someone who'd actively played UO back in the 2000s and was coming back, one of the first things I started doing was looking for active, interactive guilds whom I could join forces with - in the oldstyle way, for to have a common ground with likeminded people so as to add my might into a common goal: For not only a means of partaking expeditions and ingame interactions, but also for building up strenght with others who might share some common core values with mine.

I had never used a Discord account before, so the Forum was the only means off-game I had to inform myself about the current stands of the game.

SMASH, Namjak, CHAMP. Looking their constant posts, videos, public drafts, my first impression was exactly the one you described: That there were but three, four actually active guilds in the server.

Then, I tried PMing some of the smaller guilds' rosters - and both their lack/delay of answer (some hadn't even replied me at all) and the 'aggressive' drafting campaing employed by the aforementioned guilds made it seem to me that I had no choice but to try joining one of them. As alone I was being sliced tenfold by wandering PKs and crazed monsters, so...

But, know ye what bothered me most by then? It seemed to me that this kind of tactic, mass recruiting, was only meant to amass as many people as possible under the same umbrella - regardless of whatever. Possesst Thee a fancy calculator in your home and hast Thou a quick hand over the rat? Knowest Thou how to get to Brittain and corpse a-plunder? Ay Great, so yer one of ours. We shall Christen thee, and whatever pixel hunting, pixel slaughter there be, count on us to reach ye so that yer dextrous hands could grab as much the shinies as they can hold in Our glorious Guildmasters' engineered quests.

Sorry, mates, but this is NOT what a Guild should be. Historically speaking, and gameplay-wise, for the sake of any RPG.

A circle of friends and I had our own Guild back in the 2000s. We managed to have a castle, and about 30 active Guild members. Our worry was not numbers, as we had decided to stop recruiting as soon as the Guild reached the 30-member milestone. What mattered to us was Quality over Quantity. What's the point of having a gazillion-member Guild? Collecting pixels? Amassing shinies?...

...Having soulless minions at the full disposal of the Guild's tophats?

I often ask to some from the International community here, Why don't you gather together and found yer own Guilds? And the answer is always the same kind: 'Ach, better join [guild name] because how could we get champs otherwise?', 'Het, [guild name] offers [bargains] so I guess I prefer standing with them', 'Nah, if I join[guild name] I won't get killed by their PKs anymore', and so on.

There's the RP part in that small abbreviation, fer Gotts sayk. One doesn't need to go full RP, but come on, mass recruiting is just a lame way of assuring that 'mine is bigger than yours'. Guilds are supposed to have goals, standards, principles; they are supposed to help likeminded members to reach for common horizons, supposed to guide new players into the neverending complexity and challenge that the Ultima Online presents. Otherwise, they be but standing bronze giants with walking clay legs - just a-waiting for the last, final stumble and crumble.

Either theirs, or the server's. I truly wish for the first.

Absurdly massive guilds with a body but no soul are a longtime threat to any online game, as History has already shown us. There will come a time of schism, of clash, and inevitable dismembering - either guildleaving or ye oldstyle bodyripping. But not without a war - and I'd recommend us all to fasten our saddlebelts.

The Empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide. Thus it has ever been. And the faint smell of smoke can already be felt from afar.

So, I decided stopping looking fer any Guild and instead joined with other friends and we founded ours - a mild RP guild whose core principle is to grow slow, but steady. We have stopped recruiting, since our forces add up to then people - and, let us be realistic, if coordinating ten people is difficult enough, what about keeping a decent, responsible track of the absurd amount of recruits of the aforementioned spamm-wise guilds?
We help each other in any other way we can, be it lore, loan, equipment, resources and whatsoever. We've been building a network of contacts, interactions, diplomacy, strategy and tactics with members from other guilds and other nations - and we are looking forward to strenghten interactions with likewise players and guilds, broadening alliances, interactions, with the ones who share the same RP spirit of interaction as us.

Because Britannia is a whole world, fer Gotts sake. Has been mine since my first IBM PC and my first NES console. It shan't be a place fer just amassing heads and scores - for that ye have Candy Crush and such ilk.

 

[Nappaca]

I never really read the forum for guild invites. I mostly a solo player ( that get pk 10 time to my 1 win) agree I do hate tons of people in one guild of strangers. I rather play small group of people I know (orcs that don't care about deaths or loot).

 

[akrippler]

I joined so maybe I have a biased opinion. But they are the only groups attempting to engage and keep people playing on this server. I'm not the only one that didn't know the youngplayer chest or companion stuff even existed before losing my young status. Veterans are taking time out of their day to show new players the ropes. Without their knowledge I'd spend too much time trying to figure out all the unique things about UOF like meta pets, meta talismans, spawns that arent a waste of time or even things that came along after I quit UO originally (champs and the like). I'd probably get burnt out.

For all the talk of them amassing numbers Ive never seen more than ~10 active at once, and that number is similar to a lot of other guilds that arent listed here.

As for mass recruiting. The number of people that pick up UO out of nostalgia then quit in 2 weeks is staggering. It's going to take some time for these guilds to build a legitimate playerbase that is in fact going to stay.

Im also confused as to why LFG presence is bothersome. Does anyone thats not looking for a guild actually look in LFG, whether it be discord or the forums?

 

[Zog'orium]

A lot of guilds have a "must win" mentality, Either they mass recruit to win via quantity or they just recruit and play with other elite level players and win with quality. I don't think having a huge guild is an bad idea. Nor do I think wanting to play with similar skill level players is bad. But I do wonder when you lump 80% of the shards pvpers in 3 or 4 guilds- how can you complain that guilds resort to "zerg" tactics to compete?

 

[Edwin Fox]

I see your point, akippler, and I partially agree with you.

When I started playing in the server I also had problems finding where things were, and things such as the young player donation chest were but a no-thing for me until I became non-young and casually went to see that chest there. Sometimes I drop some thing there but I wonder how many yplayers have no knowledge about it.

But regarding companioning and ingame help, I had no help from the guild players I asked help. Most of them would just ignore my heys, whistles, bows, messages. Guess I wasn't lucky. Some from my guild got great help from either non-aligned or small-guild members - one of ours got two houses and one of those fancy semitransparent horseys whose name I cannot remember.

But, personally, I had absolutely no help from big-tier guildsmen. The only one who helped me with a slayer axe and a slayer runebook was a tamer from City who saw me lost in Britain and kindly offered me some assistance.

I am mostly sure that there are many players, veterans or not, eager to help newcomers... but sometimes it seems there's a fail in communication - people needing help and not finding/asking for it, and people offering help but not reaching/assisting the ones in need. It'd be nice perhaps to have a public list posted somewhere, listing names of players volunteering for helping newcomers ingame so that this bridge between both be cemented.

Regarding massive enlisting, I stand firm in my resolve. I think it is a longterm threat to have a ludicrously big guild full in persons but empty in values. It misses the whole point of the Ultima Online system of gameplay, as its original intent was to estimulate an environment of mediaeval role play - and, as far as I know, Guilds in those times (either Eastern or Western) were always based on core values, ideas, purposes. I never heard of a Guild in real life who just put theirs town criers announcing that every peasant who could sit, eat and talk would be appliable to join it.

Well, actually there were a few who did so, such as the Yellow Turbans in Mediaeval China - and they eventually grew so so SO much (without core values, without core goals, without a clear leadership) that inside quarrels and outside threats made it crumble down bringing along the Han Dynasty to ruin.

So, that's my point. A Guild without core values is nothing but an empty shell, and each and every new member adds up a grain of saltpepper to that core. There will be a day it will either implode, or explode, leaving a cluster trail of people leaving the server and/or regrouping in other guilds. That is my opinion upon the matter.

 

[AngloSpanglo]

Only mistake City ever made was letting selfish griefers like Jaz and Lepo in.

 

[Sir.]

Well said @Edwin Fox .. the old guilds of uo are what brought me to this; when guilds had a refined goal.. wether it was to rob the world blind from a thieves den or dedicate their efforts to bolstering the economy... two guilds here that come to mind are ETC (merchant only guild) and the Res Cross (a healer guild who rez anyone anywhere that asks in rescue situations)... maybe small goals, but humble, refined and respected for really contributing to an entire (and well rounded) player community.

 

[Young Star]

I wouldnt really classify the guilds in question of mass recruiting. Yeah they have open recruitment but you don't know if they are just looking to get 30 active players or 100. They are giving players a chance and most are up front with their expectations of new recruits. You dont know how many are actually applying or how many are staying.

 

[Edwin Fox]

Neither do we know what values, if there be any, they do stand for, @Young Star (at least I don't). And that does make one wonder...

 

[Young Star]

Neither do we know what values, if there be any, they do stand for, @Young Star (at least I don't). And that does make one wonder...

I agree. If a guild isnt stating what type of people they are and want it is a disservice to themselves.

 

[akrippler]

Noone needs to conform to your ideas of the way the game should be played. I want to play UOF as a whole, not shoehorn myself into a specific role. Ive only been on this server for 2 weeks, so correct me if I'm wrong but; it seems everyone on this server has a tamer, a meta dexxer, a pvper etc... If you do and you claim your guild is a unique butterfly your lying to yourself. Its ridiculous to expect people to narrow themselves down to only participating in 1 part of UOF just to conform to what you guys think are values.

 

[AreYouKidden]

Noone needs to conform to your ideas of the way the game should be played. I want to play UOF as a whole, not shoehorn myself into a specific role. Ive only been on this server for 2 weeks, so correct me if I'm wrong but; it seems everyone on this server has a tamer, a meta dexxer, a pvper etc... If you do and you claim your guild is a unique butterfly your lying to yourself. Its ridiculous to expect people to narrow themselves down to only participating in 1 part of UOF just to conform to what you guys think are values.

I think you missed the point entirely if you think that's what people are trying to do, it's merely a word of caution, saying think before you run.

For example, TRIN - Free City of Trinsic, is a tight knight, family oriented guild, who is selective in recruitment. We house mostly casuals, we dabble in all activities, but we don't really focus on any one activity like RDA's, or Champs, or more generically PvP, or PvM, we do a little bit of all of it. We are a light RP guild, our stance is generally on the side of good, we actively help new players, and oppose reds, we look to support and foster a healthy community, with a variety of entities in it. If you are a hardcore player, this guild probably isn't for you. We do everything, but we've defined the type of player we are looking for.

The purpose of the OP was more to say mass recruiting in and of itself leads to issues - if at some point you haven't defined the type of player you are looking for, or the type of guild you are to be, then you have the potential to be more damaging to a niche community of players who play a 20 year old game, and to your guild as whole. He's not suggesting you have to play a specific role in an RP community, just put some thought in what you want to do, before you string a ton of people along for the ride.

Answer this honestly, as a new player coming in, going to one of these mass recruiting spamming guilds, joining up, and getting kicked out or having to leave because it wasn't what they or yourself were looking for, how many of those people move on to other games because they are gun shy. I'm an extremely loyal guy, oddly (an injustice to myself), I'd rather quit a game, than quit a guild I've joined. It's better to be upfront about who/what you are, for the entire community. There is a reason that TRIN, a 5 year old guild here, who doesn't field a ton of people daily, doesn't mass recruit. It's because we look for the right fit for our guild, and for the person, and are very upfront about that, in the hopes that we put our best foot forward in building a strong UOF community, and not take a step towards tearing it down.