'Just recall away from reds' is bullshit.

[wreckognize]

also, China

 

[halygon]

rofl

appreciate the effort. still doesn't solve the ultimate problem that kids are still gonna die over this non UO:R era custom mechanic that never belonged, which is now proven to be used as a grief tool.

People used to just come PK at the bard table, PKs could be seen running down the hall and some people could get away with all their training equipment if they weren't afk.

Now people will try to bother you and poke you so that you take a murder count, so they can just come cream you on their red and you can't get away with the loot, making you unable to macro there for 24 hours.

don't believe me that people are using this method to grief? For whatever reason I mean cmon it's right in front of you.. Here is a PM i recieved randomly from someone I'm not sure I've even met regarding the Notoriety changes when they happened and before I even read about them happening:

(imgur is down so I'm copy pasting, since GMs can read my inbox anyways they can verify if they want to that way for all I care)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
HANES?
Pandone, Sep 27, 2015 Report

Pandone: you still around lamering? i had an idea after the new notority

Me:
hiya, yeah im around ^^
notoriety? what do u mean?

Pandone: they make you have to stay in combat vs an aggressor IF you got a murder count right?
i think it's super grief friendly evn also for solo player. 1 or a group of stealther with a way to communicate could make huge problems.
i could let ppl who are doing a champ to attack my stealther (fake thief) walking around give them murders come back with some ppl and create troubles for example

Me:hmm can u link info on this? I must have missed it

Me again: lol ya, so like uoforever. I seen the post. yes you're exactly right, it's nothing more than a tool for griefers.

Pandone: I lack ppl go do everything cause chinese allied half server lol

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, you can see from this that people have been abusing this on uoforever for years before it even got implemented here. It's just a shitty mechanic that no thought was put into before adding and that's why it's been such a problem, and will continue to be such a problem until it's fixed.

You guys can put in a message to change it in like 2 mins, you can totally revert it in 5 mins, you can think of something better and put that in in another 5 mins, but by god you can waste months of players time just getting it to a tolerable level of functionality. Didn't used to be this hard to get staff to raise the bar above uoforever, what happened?

It's a game, you will die to mechanics you don't know about, and in UO there are a ton of mechanics and you die a lot. Its the nature of things whether you are a newbie or a vet, there is something you do not know.

Still "doesn't solve the ultimate problem"? You said before (in this thread and quoted below) that all it would take is the message changed. I agreed with you on this and got it changed.

tbh I've fought pretty hard against the notoriety changes. Just a little bit of common sense is all that was needed to ensure new players would be able to understand the new rules. But it took months to get the word out and still there's no in game indication of what is going on.

''thou hast a murder count and therefore can not recall once attacked or whilst attacking''

is really all it would take.

Stop stirring the pot, you have been heard and noted.

 

[wreckognize]

''All it would take'' is taken out of context because what I said was all it would take to let these newbies know what's going on is a simple message, but simply letting them know what's going on doesn't make it anymore of a grief tool, which is seriously all it amounts to.

This is UO but it's supposed to have UO:R pvp mechanics and the new notoriey changes are a serious strech on that to say the least.

Being heard and noted isn't enough for me. I want that cheating Blair de-robed already and I want to be able to have an honest debate about this with the staff representing player relations without being trolled or asked politely to stfu. Definitely not the only vet who feels that way, well maybe since most of the vets here have already fled this sinking vessel.

 

[MZ3K]

Grief is part of the server. People drag spawn to kill blues all the time its not going away.
If you are going to kill someone and get a count its your fault you cant recall you cant blame noto.
The OP is just going thru a learning process

This 'its part of the game' attitude is the other shit that kills me.

As far as I can tell, PvMers on this server exist principally as an attraction for PKs. It's as though the rules are built to maintain just enough PvM players as is needed to keep the PKs entertained. There is no draw back to being red. People will reply and talk about stat loss that lasts two days as if that's a long time and the average red doesn't have 10 accounts (according to Shane) that he can play with in the mean time.

 

[halygon]

''All it would take'' is taken out of context because what I said was all it would take to let these newbies know what's going on is a simple message, but simply letting them know what's going on doesn't make it anymore of a grief tool, which is seriously all it amounts to.

This is UO but it's supposed to have UO:R pvp mechanics and the new notoriey changes are a serious strech on that to say the least.

Being heard and noted isn't enough for me. I want that cheating Blair de-robed already and I want to be able to have an honest debate about this with the staff representing player relations without being trolled or asked politely to stfu. Definitely not the only vet who feels that way, well maybe since most of the vets here have already fled this sinking vessel.

No one told you to shut up. What I said was to stop stirring the pot. You are intentionally going into any thread remotely close to this topic and pushing your agenda. There is a point to where what you are doing is just repeating yourself instead of actually helping your cause.

 

[wreckognize]

You don't think it's helping my cause, yet because of my efforts in this thread, now we are at least making this change more visible to newbies via in game message?

Also I'm pretty sure talking about this in this thread is completely on topic.

I admit it's nice to see you guys are actually listening, but your foot has been firmly stomped down on these noto changes no matter what I've said, and it's because of your attitude there that many vets have already left the shard, because they got trolled and your foot was stomped down regardless of their suggestions, or begging you guys to deliver promised content before starting up new stuff that nobody asked for.

 

[bane]

This 'its part of the game' attitude is the other shit that kills me.

As far as I can tell, PvMers on this server exist principally as an attraction for PKs. It's as though the rules are built to maintain just enough PvM players as is needed to keep the PKs entertained. There is no draw back to being red. People will reply and talk about stat loss that lasts two days as if that's a long time and the average red doesn't have 10 accounts (according to Shane) that he can play with in the mean time.

This game gets boring real quick without the PK risk. The AI doesn't come close to posing any real risk. Gear is cheap, you will die, get over it. This is coming from a player that has never had a red and is terrible at PVP.

TLDR: stop crying the PK "problem" here is minimal at best.

 

[halygon]

You don't think it's helping my cause, yet because of my efforts in this thread, now we are at least making this change more visible to newbies via in game message?

Also I'm pretty sure talking about this in this thread is completely on topic.

I admit it's nice to see you guys are actually listening, but your foot has been firmly stomped down on these noto changes no matter what I've said, and it's because of your attitude there that many vets have already left the shard, because they got trolled and your foot was stomped down regardless of their suggestions, or begging you guys to deliver promised content before starting up new stuff that nobody asked for.

I am always open to new suggestions and better ideas. That doesn't make every idea or suggestion good. Even so, the staff listens to them all. Sometimes even bad ideas bring up something that can be used to improve the shard.

I am sorry that you feel your ideas are being stomped down, but I can tell you that everything you have said has been heard.

 

[wreckognize]

Wish it wasn't just my ''agenda'' to make UO:F great again.

This game gets boring real quick without the PK risk. The AI doesn't come close to posing any real risk. Gear is cheap, you will die, get over it. This is coming from a player that has never had a red and is terrible at PVP.

TLDR: stop crying the PK "problem" here is minimal at best.

lol if it were only a PK problem and not a grief problem then I would support your ideas. But people aren't just PKing anymore, they're griefing like they did to this guy at the bard table. Then once he took a murder count, they came and PK'd him and he couldn't get away.

I used to suport being PKd at the bard table as it was good for game balance. But now with this notoriety griefing going on, it's just leaving new players full of angst the minute they step in the door, destined to become griefers themselves until finally this place becomes a toxic sespool like uoforever was and no reasonable human being would want to play here after taking a look at what the population is like.

And as I've said, I'm not the only veteran UO player here who has witnessed this trend and left. Several vets, even some who coded here, have left because of the community becoming angsty and toxic. It's the same trend we've witnessed as poor game balance and lack of fixes for it destroyed uoforever, ipy2 etc.

We have to promote player enjoyment as its a part of healthy game balance, and the notoriety changes do not accomplish this as they just make things harder for players at the low end of the learning curve.

 

[wreckognize]

I am always open to new suggestions and better ideas. That doesn't make every idea or suggestion good. Even so, the staff listens to them all. Sometimes even bad ideas bring up something that can be used to improve the shard.

I am sorry that you feel your ideas are being stomped down, but I can tell you that everything you have said has been heard.

All of my ideas were bad, I agree, except the one that you would not accept which is to make the murder count timer 48 hours and revert everything else.

That's UO:R man, 48 hours per count and you can recall from zergs anytime u want, no matter what. And that's what the primary market of new players is coming here expecting. We don't need any higher BPK consequences than that. Don't believe me? Let's try it for 3 months then, and if BPKing becomes a problem then I will eat my hat.

 

[wreckognize]

Is this out of the question? No, because it's tried tested and true. 24 hour murder counts was the SOLE reason that BPKing was ever a problem on this shard. 48 hours is reccommended by everyone, including runuo for a reason.

So can we test 48 hour murder counts for the same amount of time this has been tested and then compare the results?

 

[GluttonySDS]

Dont like not being able to recall when you have counts? Dont kill innocents... this rule has been in place on most other major freeshards btw and it has significantly curbed down on the amount of blue PKing that happens here.

 

[wreckognize]

Dont like not being able to recall when you have counts? Dont kill innocents... this rule has been in place on most other major freeshards btw and it has significantly curbed down on the amount of blue PKing that happens here.

LOL @ most other freeshards. it was only ever on uoforever. 48 hours is on most other freeshards.

 

[wreckognize]

The only reason uoforever was able to survive with these mechanics is because razor pointed you there by default.

And the only reason UO:F is surviving with these mechanics is because shane is an advertising fucking genius.

But where I come from, surviving aint living and it sure is hell aint living pretty. People thought uoforever was a great success, but the only success they had was enough playerbase coming in and out donating, literally capped at the same 200-400 actives we have. It's time people stopped thinking the success of a shard hinges on having just enough people to cover the hosting FFS. UO freeshards will be a great success when they have 1000 active daily IMO and we're not going to get there with shitty grief mechanics like this. Try harder

 

[GluttonySDS]

I'm for both.... I'm all for making the murder of innocents have consequences... you seem to want to be able have 4 counts and have no penalty at all, the very definition of a blue PK.

 

[GluttonySDS]

No one has to murder innocent players in UO -- its a choice you make and since the backbone of the server is innocent players, putting in measures to discourage their slaughter is a good thing.

 

[a trollbridge]

a blue griefer is not innocent

 

[GluttonySDS]

a blue griefer is not innocent

Sure he is -- if he's not doing anything to go grey, he is indeed innocent. The cool thing about UO is that this innocent player made you upset enough that you chose to kill him, which is totally within the system. However since you killed an innocent player, you now have to face a consequence.


"if your heart is true, dont kill blue"

p.s.

you could always go red or bring in a separate red char just for situations like this

 

[Skye Wolfbane]

I have a question since we're talking about this recall stuff..

How come I'll get a murder point (not count) when I haven't even attacked someone?
And I agree..i don't like the recall rules. I get why they put them in but it punishes people who aren't trying to pvp and just running away like the sissies we are.

 

[wreckognize]

It's true, I'm probably the biggest Blue PK on the server. Hands down. But I don't do it on my PvM character, that's for sure. 9 times out of 10 I'm able to reverse gate my pvmer back to my castle when the zergs show up.

Believe me when I say that I burn more BPK murder counts than anyone here. Which would be way harder for me if it was 48 hour counts. The only people that are having a problem with the noto changes are new players who don't yet have the character setup that I do. And that's exactly the problem.