Bromista
Grandmaster
I don't even IDOC and that just makes good sense. Well done.
Greatly worn Finder
- Thread starter drinn
- Start date
halygon
Grandmaster
Glad I don't idoc anymore cause regardless of how I check a house sign currently, that captia would make checking houses take twice as long.
Can someone get UOF some anti-Trammy pills?
Can someone get UOF some anti-Trammy pills?
The same argument could be made for making the IDOC timer variable. Lol, now IDOCers have to put in a bit more effort and IDOCs might have a bit more competition and PvP.
Can someone get UOF some anti-Trammy pills?
berticus
Grandmaster
Not a bad idea at all. I don't mind a variance window, nor does justin or any of these cats i run with i don't think... just make it reasonable so that you can have your hotbed of pvp without dragging it out all day if at all possible.
Are you looking at making this a 100% on click, or a 1 out of 100 clicks type occurence? It'd be pretty annoying if every sign check we have to do to keep relatively tight windows were to proc on every single click. It's still probably a much better alternative to the hypothesized 4 hour variable window.
Either way, good job being open-minded. I like that you guys are always working to make things more globally encompassing.
Are you looking at making this a 100% on click, or a 1 out of 100 clicks type occurence? It'd be pretty annoying if every sign check we have to do to keep relatively tight windows were to proc on every single click. It's still probably a much better alternative to the hypothesized 4 hour variable window.
Either way, good job being open-minded. I like that you guys are always working to make things more globally encompassing.
I'm not sure it would be effective if it were not an often occurrence. The issue isn't that people are doing it 100% afk but are just running by houses while still at the keyboard. If it were a 1/100 chance, I wouldn't even classify it as a minor annoyance let alone a measure to get rid of the house sign scripting in its entirety.
halygon
Grandmaster
Personally I think a randomization for the last hour would fix pretty much everything. I am not opposed to the house captia in general but I think it's pretty much overkill for a very small problem.
Now granted I'm glad you aren't proposing time changes as it took me a long ass time to figure those out.
Now granted I'm glad you aren't proposing time changes as it took me a long ass time to figure those out.
berticus
Grandmaster
i think the 1 hour variable could be exactly what you're looking for. 2 hours wouldn't be murderous. 4 seems highly stretched.
you couldn't go to bed timing a house if it were a percent thing. if i couldn't recall through our 10 fairly and 4 greatly books without each recall 100% having an extra step... it'd be a pretty big turn-off.
if you're trying to stop scripts that click the sign as you run by i see how you're at a dilemma. but making it to where when we check the greatly books every 30 minutes and have to click a gump for every single house we visit, that's a bit taxing. again, this is your baby. you guys have done pretty damn well with it. i'm just trying to present another vantage point in the debate.
at some point there has to be a compromise unless you guys should implement change without hearing out your followers, something i haven't witnessed as of yet. that's something that helps make this shard better than any other i've had the pleasure of exploring. the effort you guys put forth into re-checking your ideas and further improve on strategies before any are moved on definitely keep me hopeful that everyone can come out of this with a shit-eating grin just the same =D
you couldn't go to bed timing a house if it were a percent thing. if i couldn't recall through our 10 fairly and 4 greatly books without each recall 100% having an extra step... it'd be a pretty big turn-off.
if you're trying to stop scripts that click the sign as you run by i see how you're at a dilemma. but making it to where when we check the greatly books every 30 minutes and have to click a gump for every single house we visit, that's a bit taxing. again, this is your baby. you guys have done pretty damn well with it. i'm just trying to present another vantage point in the debate.
at some point there has to be a compromise unless you guys should implement change without hearing out your followers, something i haven't witnessed as of yet. that's something that helps make this shard better than any other i've had the pleasure of exploring. the effort you guys put forth into re-checking your ideas and further improve on strategies before any are moved on definitely keep me hopeful that everyone can come out of this with a shit-eating grin just the same =D
I think idocing is a contrived "profession" meaning you figured out all that stuff and timers and macros but that's because that's what YOU decided to do. That doesn't make it a game mechanic or game philosophy at all.
The game shouldn't create itself around a system you made. Same as rares. You check the spot if its there it's there if not its not yet with scripts and spreadsheets And god knows what else that's all YOU not the game.
A game should not tweak it self based on the contrived extra efforts of the players. A game should tweak itself for what is best for game mechanics and the owners philosophies.
The game shouldn't create itself around a system you made. Same as rares. You check the spot if its there it's there if not its not yet with scripts and spreadsheets And god knows what else that's all YOU not the game.
A game should not tweak it self based on the contrived extra efforts of the players. A game should tweak itself for what is best for game mechanics and the owners philosophies.
Violence
Grandmaster
Sandbox 101. We work with the games mechanics and make the most of it. God forbid players actually make an impact in a persistent MMO world.
This sort of knee jerk reaction to perceived flaws in the game is why I don't play certain MOBA games any more. Players with a modicum of ingenuity make the most of game mechanics while the rest scream foul because they can't or won't play smarter.
Metagaming has always been a huge, huge part of UO.
Bromista
Grandmaster
Automation is a terrible thing when it comes to anything but training up skills and crafting using resources. I am definitely opposed to gathering resources and information while afk, that is what's harmful.
I don't think it's so much that it's trying to cut down on people who play the game smarter than others because as demonstrated in this thread, and newb can just cut and paste a script into steam and they're on the same playing field as the veterans who made the scripts.
That's a major problem and it actually contradicts the whole playing the game smarter theory because any newb can do it.
I don't think it's so much that it's trying to cut down on people who play the game smarter than others because as demonstrated in this thread, and newb can just cut and paste a script into steam and they're on the same playing field as the veterans who made the scripts.
That's a major problem and it actually contradicts the whole playing the game smarter theory because any newb can do it.
Violence
Grandmaster
That is where we come back to the fact that scripts make up only a minor role in the larger picture that is IDOCing.
But when there is accusations of things such as Companions are able to cheat to get IDOC info, then it would seem quite clear to me that many people don't know how to IDOC or general game mechanics.
Quite clearly, scripting seems to be the biggest issue here and has dominated the discussion. Perhaps address that first if the staff feels the need to.
But when there is accusations of things such as Companions are able to cheat to get IDOC info, then it would seem quite clear to me that many people don't know how to IDOC or general game mechanics.
Quite clearly, scripting seems to be the biggest issue here and has dominated the discussion. Perhaps address that first if the staff feels the need to.
That's what I'm against and agree that is the issue here. That and if more than 2 accounts are used to place and lock up plots for the ones that need houses, and can legally place. Though I can't confirm this is actually happening, only forum murmur, which has to be taken with a grain of salt.
I know people don't want to see the same people get every IDOC. But if they take the time to manually hunt them, roll in organized and PK all others, good on them.
I'm with Bro on this. Scripts are bad period. Yeah they beat out Razor macros, as they could do a lot more (switch spell/regs at x skill etc) but where do we actually draw the line, and how clearly can it be drawn? Some scripts ok, and others not?
I see the argument this is a 15 year old game, and most of us have lives/jobs etc, and can't play all day. But why should certain people in the same boat gain? If so, why can't I script animal taming gains? I work 12hrs a day, usually 30 days in a row. So I don't have a ton of time to train it quickly.
If you have fat fingers, but your smart enough to write scripts, is it ok to use auto heal/cure script?
Scripts have no place in UO, but how do you take them away now without people leaving. It's tough to figure out the lesser of the evils
I know people don't want to see the same people get every IDOC. But if they take the time to manually hunt them, roll in organized and PK all others, good on them.
I'm with Bro on this. Scripts are bad period. Yeah they beat out Razor macros, as they could do a lot more (switch spell/regs at x skill etc) but where do we actually draw the line, and how clearly can it be drawn? Some scripts ok, and others not?
I see the argument this is a 15 year old game, and most of us have lives/jobs etc, and can't play all day. But why should certain people in the same boat gain? If so, why can't I script animal taming gains? I work 12hrs a day, usually 30 days in a row. So I don't have a ton of time to train it quickly.
If you have fat fingers, but your smart enough to write scripts, is it ok to use auto heal/cure script?
Scripts have no place in UO, but how do you take them away now without people leaving. It's tough to figure out the lesser of the evils
Bromista
Grandmaster
How can Companions supposedly gain that information? I have never heard such a thing. Curious.
They can't. It was confirmed by staff and even a companion as to what they could do with their powers. But if a companion or 2 show up right before a drop, people will always call foul.
Bromista
Grandmaster
OMG I KILLED A COMPANION AND MY CLIENT CLOSED IMMEDIATELY DID I GET HAXXORED?
I have no problem with creating your own profession and intricacies I do have a problem with wanting to change a game based on them.
All self made sand boxing must adapt to the over all philosophy of the game. You can't say " I do it this way and if you change it ill have to find another way"
Because its not you who makes the game mechanics its you who plays with those mechanics with your personal preference.
I could say no reds cause that messes with my sand boxing. But myrder system and its rules are mechanics of the game
With idoc it's a mechanic and the rules of that mechanic must match the philosophy of the game. should idoc be random? That I do not know but it should match a larger chunk of adaption of play styles. One can't say well Sagan does it this way so lets leave it be.
Especially if one is complaining a game change will just ruin their scripting work. Most DEFFINATELY a game should not cater to a particular script style
No offense to Sagan
All self made sand boxing must adapt to the over all philosophy of the game. You can't say " I do it this way and if you change it ill have to find another way"
Because its not you who makes the game mechanics its you who plays with those mechanics with your personal preference.
I could say no reds cause that messes with my sand boxing. But myrder system and its rules are mechanics of the game
With idoc it's a mechanic and the rules of that mechanic must match the philosophy of the game. should idoc be random? That I do not know but it should match a larger chunk of adaption of play styles. One can't say well Sagan does it this way so lets leave it be.
Especially if one is complaining a game change will just ruin their scripting work. Most DEFFINATELY a game should not cater to a particular script style
No offense to Sagan
Karl Sagan
Grandmaster
No offense taken, and I have to say this has been a very good discussion.
I don't use a script to time. I do have macros set up that make it somewhat easier, but I only run razor.
My main objections:
1. Random timer would get rid of the advantage organized idoc teams earn. No one is going to spend their days checking books for a four hour window. It gets rid of a facet of gameplay that encourages teamwork, communication, and organization.
2. The reasoning behind the change. "People are getting rich" "same guild gets EVERY IDOC (this is false anyways)" "it disadvantages new players". ALL of these are things that could be changed by players.
Changing game mechanics to even the field between those who put in effort and those who don't is a mistake.
EDIT: and furthermore, this change will do absolutely nothing to curb scripting or multiple account abuse.
berticus
Grandmaster
and the game shouldn't cater to uneducated people who can't seem to grasp the strategy required to be successful at the task they're trying to delve in. study the forums, copy and incorporate the strategies. hell, ask me or others questions. i'll share everything i know. competition is good. no house should fall without someone having at least noticed it and considered keeping tabs on it.
for those who are curious, here's a sampling of what a day in the life of an idocer might include. in this case, both of us, although we didn't blanket cover today since there was an IRL wedding of friends to attend and some serious CoD to handle up on
from 6 houses that have dropped so far today:
a chest of trapped pouches
a chest of potions, regular pots like you'd find on a corpse
a chest with completed treasure maps, 2k bandaids and 1k arrows
a chest of 300 each reg
a chest of instruments and special fish
700 iron ingots
300-500 of shadow, bronze, and aggapite
most importantly, 0 decent plots
so yeah man, today was amazing. splitting that, we totally rich and overpowered now. definitely broken as fuck, right?
however, if you stick with a huge randomized window as was originally being debated, i wouldn't be bothering with these shits after a couple days of this type of loot. it's a numbers game, and eventually i'm bound to hit a fatass lottery ticket. i hope this makes it a little clearer that not every house that falls has amazing loot, and of the houses that do, the odds of it winding up in our loot boxes is pretty craptastic.
again, i reiterate, if you want me to post up every script there is i'd be happy to. i wish those that do chime in would elaborate on what their idoc experiences are like. if you don't idoc, i'm not really sure why you'd be adding in verbage here. that'd be like me telling you how i hate purple pots and think they should be nerfed. i dislike them, i choose not to use them, but i acknowledge their reason for existence regardless of my approval rating and play knowing that at some point i'm going to get hammered by a couple of alchy dexers. maybe even within the next few hours.
it's part of the game.
lastly, i'd say that whatever change is implemented, make it easier. clearly people find the present system is too complicated for those unversed in the arts of masterlewting/plotting to be successful, so instead of making changes that would cause more chaos to the system, try something that makes it easier. i mean within the last few months we added a spawn point of 4 titans to Fire 2, i'm guessing so farmers could amass more wealth more easily. that doesn't seem like a change that discourages financial gain.
for those who are curious, here's a sampling of what a day in the life of an idocer might include. in this case, both of us, although we didn't blanket cover today since there was an IRL wedding of friends to attend and some serious CoD to handle up on
from 6 houses that have dropped so far today:
a chest of trapped pouches
a chest of potions, regular pots like you'd find on a corpse
a chest with completed treasure maps, 2k bandaids and 1k arrows
a chest of 300 each reg
a chest of instruments and special fish
700 iron ingots
300-500 of shadow, bronze, and aggapite
most importantly, 0 decent plots
so yeah man, today was amazing. splitting that, we totally rich and overpowered now. definitely broken as fuck, right?
however, if you stick with a huge randomized window as was originally being debated, i wouldn't be bothering with these shits after a couple days of this type of loot. it's a numbers game, and eventually i'm bound to hit a fatass lottery ticket. i hope this makes it a little clearer that not every house that falls has amazing loot, and of the houses that do, the odds of it winding up in our loot boxes is pretty craptastic.
again, i reiterate, if you want me to post up every script there is i'd be happy to. i wish those that do chime in would elaborate on what their idoc experiences are like. if you don't idoc, i'm not really sure why you'd be adding in verbage here. that'd be like me telling you how i hate purple pots and think they should be nerfed. i dislike them, i choose not to use them, but i acknowledge their reason for existence regardless of my approval rating and play knowing that at some point i'm going to get hammered by a couple of alchy dexers. maybe even within the next few hours.
it's part of the game.
lastly, i'd say that whatever change is implemented, make it easier. clearly people find the present system is too complicated for those unversed in the arts of masterlewting/plotting to be successful, so instead of making changes that would cause more chaos to the system, try something that makes it easier. i mean within the last few months we added a spawn point of 4 titans to Fire 2, i'm guessing so farmers could amass more wealth more easily. that doesn't seem like a change that discourages financial gain.
Karl Sagan
Grandmaster
The playing smarter is running the map, setting up and tending books, establishing windows, killing timers, organizing a team.
Random window gets rid of that advantage.
While any newb can set up a script, all the prep work still has to be done. No one is going to spend that amount of time (basically 24 hours of work spread across multiple people) for a 4 hour window. Especially when all that work is flushed away because we can't come before the fall to clear out an idoc we have invested the time in monitoring.
To everyone who thinks idoccing successfully just takes 'any newb setting up a script', you're wrong. However, if they put in a 4 hour window then yes that's about all it would take. Since every newb who catches a gate from Brit bank will be on a level field with those who spent literal weeks monitoring.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
it sounds like these scripters are gettin greatly warned