you must not idoc a lot dude, there has always been people who have no times on houses, that will sit 8 hours at even the crappiest little plot, for a couple mystery chests, with 8 people hidden next to and around them lol, it will always be that way, change the timers to random, you'll have just as many people idocing.
Greatly worn Finder
- Thread starter drinn
- Start date
you must not idoc a lot dude, there has always been people who have no times on houses, that will sit 8 hours at even the crappiest little plot, for a couple mystery chests, with 8 people hidden next to and around them lol, it will always be that way, change the timers to random, you'll have just as many people idocing.
Karl Sagan
Grandmaster
"There is no hard work in dedicating a 2nd or 3rd account to scan a set 5 rune books"
Dude I don't think you know what you're talking about. Read my earlier posts - there IS a significant amount of time and effort that goes into getting an advantage over others at idocs. If it was as easy as you're imagining it then everyone would be doing it and everyone would have timers. That is certainly not how my group does it.
I have toons dedicated to idoc timing, they have specific skills that are helpful. I coordinate with several people. We still have to fight for idoc loot as others time and people will camp an idoc for 10 hours straight if thy don't have a timer.
I can tell you what random timers are going to do to the idoc scene - shit all over it. No one is going to sit for 4-8 hours fighting for idocs. Any that would already DO. But hey go ahead and kill off a source of pvp so that no one has an 'advantage'.
"If am IDOC macro can net you 500k or 1M, why can't it farm the same gold, in same amount of time?"
IT CAN'T. YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR IT. If you really think idoccing is as easy as setting up an afk macro and coming back to a mil profit, you are not qualified to discuss this because you have no idea what you are talking about.
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I get what it takes to IDOC, so once you find a potential IDOC, you cruise around and check them. One goes greatly worn, and you time it. I'm all good with that.
Using razor, uosteam, or EUO, to recall around a team effort rune book or 5, and logging info, isn't playing. It's scripting. If you pick up a change to rune 5, at 10PM Friday, and log a timer in a text file/book that's not playing.
I'm not arguing IDOC hunting, I'm arguing IDOC timing via script/Macro. Which let's be honest, no straight or simple macro could accurately do.
Using razor, uosteam, or EUO, to recall around a team effort rune book or 5, and logging info, isn't playing. It's scripting. If you pick up a change to rune 5, at 10PM Friday, and log a timer in a text file/book that's not playing.
I'm not arguing IDOC hunting, I'm arguing IDOC timing via script/Macro. Which let's be honest, no straight or simple macro could accurately do.
berticus
Grandmaster
you're arguing against a means by which to collect times. unless you kill razor as well, you're not going to stop macroing timing of houses.
feel free to check the houses you like on your pk, track around, and kill anyone attempting to time it. you've put in a little work yourself and leveled the field since you dont want to time it yourself, now you've deprived them of their own time.
what we're refuting is the changing of timeframe from a set amount to a randomized time. you're creating too much chaos and will inevitably cause persons to not bother with them altogether. system messages work on both razor and steam, so we need to be on the same page as to what we're discussing here.
if it's decided that there HAS to be variance, make it smaller. I would think a 1 hour "variance" drop time would more than suffice. you'd still force people who have been recalling in moments before the drop to alter their strategies and show their battleplans. 4 hour discrepancy is just entirely too damn big IMO.
feel free to check the houses you like on your pk, track around, and kill anyone attempting to time it. you've put in a little work yourself and leveled the field since you dont want to time it yourself, now you've deprived them of their own time.
what we're refuting is the changing of timeframe from a set amount to a randomized time. you're creating too much chaos and will inevitably cause persons to not bother with them altogether. system messages work on both razor and steam, so we need to be on the same page as to what we're discussing here.
if it's decided that there HAS to be variance, make it smaller. I would think a 1 hour "variance" drop time would more than suffice. you'd still force people who have been recalling in moments before the drop to alter their strategies and show their battleplans. 4 hour discrepancy is just entirely too damn big IMO.
wreckognize
Grandmaster
I'm all for this. I'm not here to say bad UOS or bad razor. As much as I prefer UOA+uoaloop, as it has the least impact, I'm against complete automation of UO, plain and simple. Via legal or illegal means. Anyone against randomized timers (1hr+\-) are the ones who don't want have their feathers ruffled or game changed. I see zero negative impact to UOF, by having a 2 or even 1 hour window. Tight enough for PvP to happen, and tight enough to have players who can make it, in time to fight, make it. And still allow same "earning" of plots, loot etc by those who do IDOC for a UO living.
But arguing it takes massive effort to recall/run around areas, (say dagger) and manually check signs, maybe 4 mins tops, And mark a rune, that in turn should earn you every right to automate tracking of it, is crazy. Yes, checking the bulk of the world of UO, would take hours upon hours. Split amongst 5-10 people reasonable. Considering the timers here (30+ days). A dedicated team could take a few hours a week, and check the landmass. Group potential marks, and go from there. I'm all for this. But if I automated, or manually mark books, and them went to work all week, and came back to small list, this isn't playing UO. This is automating, which with the right tools is simple, and not playing the game.
If I open my garage door, and don't close it in 30s, my garage heat turns off (till sensor is ready for 30s) it checks for blockage(via beam sensors) and texts me to let me know I'm ********, and left it open.
I could just set it up track when I leave the house (via garage opener ID from truck, or Bluetooth proximity from iPhone to Mac mini, to auto close the garage door, wait 15 mins, to ensure I didn't forget my wallet, then text the neighbor to come fuck my wife, while I'm at work, but where is the fun in that?
Darkarna
Grandmaster
This thread reminds me of a similar thing that happened with a certain program on another shard. Sallos was widely used across the board which lead to all manner of unbalancing, particularly if the stubborn among the general population refused to change over from razor for whatever reason. This is where things begin to fester slightly, with the introduction of programs such as steam, naturally folks will become creative, removing tired and tested methods for more streamlined but somewhat suspect methods of automaton. Whichever way you want to look at it, using a script to search automatically could well be considered as borderline cheating regardless of its legitimacy, however, on the flip side, Ultima Online is a very old game and does require a certain amount of leeway to keep things running without burning yourself out.
I downloaded UOSteam yesterday evening, the reason was the promise of making my preferred choice of skill *easier* but more automated. After a few minutes of sitting, looking at the screen thinking to myself oO(Dark, do you really need this program if you are just playing for fun?) I switched back over to Razor and promptly stole a bow of Vanquishing Epic-ness, a kind of 'sign' that you don't really need heavy duty scripts unless you consider yourself competitive, fatigued with the years of doing something manually or *and I say this in the nicest way possible* a cheat. Horses for courses I guess.
The issue is IF UOsteam was banned, or heavily modified to remove features which could be considered damaging, it doesn't take a prophet to predict how many people would leave, I mean damn, a vast chunk of people left on the other shard which in a round-about way is pretty disconcerting, considering the reliance on Sallos with its *in my opinion* over-the-top abusive nature. Catch twenty two here guys, the old and gold way or the modern era way, I am a traditionalist at heart even though I experimented slightly with Uosteam, but understandably, others will prefer scripts and there is no crime in this unless considered differently by the powers at be.
*Just to add, you can do a lot of things with razor also, it is just a damn sight more difficult if you want to do some of the things considered in UOSteam which, do those things more easily.*
"I am pretty pleased with myself here, never have I been so neutral in my entire UO life. Think I am going to pat myself on the back, run around the streets naked while painting my p........ enough of that.."
I downloaded UOSteam yesterday evening, the reason was the promise of making my preferred choice of skill *easier* but more automated. After a few minutes of sitting, looking at the screen thinking to myself oO(Dark, do you really need this program if you are just playing for fun?) I switched back over to Razor and promptly stole a bow of Vanquishing Epic-ness, a kind of 'sign' that you don't really need heavy duty scripts unless you consider yourself competitive, fatigued with the years of doing something manually or *and I say this in the nicest way possible* a cheat. Horses for courses I guess.
The issue is IF UOsteam was banned, or heavily modified to remove features which could be considered damaging, it doesn't take a prophet to predict how many people would leave, I mean damn, a vast chunk of people left on the other shard which in a round-about way is pretty disconcerting, considering the reliance on Sallos with its *in my opinion* over-the-top abusive nature. Catch twenty two here guys, the old and gold way or the modern era way, I am a traditionalist at heart even though I experimented slightly with Uosteam, but understandably, others will prefer scripts and there is no crime in this unless considered differently by the powers at be.
*Just to add, you can do a lot of things with razor also, it is just a damn sight more difficult if you want to do some of the things considered in UOSteam which, do those things more easily.*
"I am pretty pleased with myself here, never have I been so neutral in my entire UO life. Think I am going to pat myself on the back, run around the streets naked while painting my p........ enough of that.."
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Bunnky
Grandmaster
*drops script into backpack*
Thanks!
*goes back to the popcorn stand*
"Hey could I get another this is gonna be a long one. "
I'll tell ya, I had a suspicion IDOC scripts like this existed, but I wasn't 100%..now that I know, I'm highly motivated into learning more advanced things to with it. Maybe I'll post my steal by type macro soon.. Thanks OP.
Sent from my ZTE N9120 using Tapatalk
Thanks!
*goes back to the popcorn stand*
"Hey could I get another this is gonna be a long one. "
I'll tell ya, I had a suspicion IDOC scripts like this existed, but I wasn't 100%..now that I know, I'm highly motivated into learning more advanced things to with it. Maybe I'll post my steal by type macro soon.. Thanks OP.
Sent from my ZTE N9120 using Tapatalk
halygon
Grandmaster
... To not have a life? ...to not spend 10+ hours per idoc?
It's 4mins? Lol more like 10 min ever hour or so, plus setup time plus cost of regs plus time to record the details.
This "small amount" of time is why I don't idoc, even with these "major" advantages that are available. Even super experienced folks spend way too many hours of their week for IDOCs then MOST of you guys do PLAYING UOF PERIOD. Yeah, definately unfair for YOU.
Randomizing IDOC fall times, even just the last stage (especially this stage) will pretty much ruin IDOCs for everyone that puts time into it.
Karl Sagan
Grandmaster
What a classic example of people who don't know what they are talking about eliciting a change to the game.
Great. Wonderful.
Great. Wonderful.
Bromista
Grandmaster
What was said above is true though. You take away the gimp ass automation and people will cry that their easy-mode was taken away and leave.
Look what happened when they disable steam for like 2 wks while it was tweaked. Most came back, but many left for that period of time.
Look what happened when they disable steam for like 2 wks while it was tweaked. Most came back, but many left for that period of time.
Darkarna
Grandmaster
There is nothing to worry about really, unless there are far fewer people using UOSteam than once thought, removing some of the chunky elements of the program would be, in my humblest of opinions, suicide for the server for the forseeable future. Personally, nothing really affects me in the changes to IDOC's, stealing or whatever else is floating around out there but that is slightly selfish of me and I apologize well in advance for this. Just going back to the word I used 'Suicide', when Sallos was removed the server practically halved in numbers within a week and obviously the decline increased steadily over time. If said server has been given a second chance, I do not know as this is my home now but still such a drastic *if not needed* measure really did, at the time, strangle itself with its own intestines.
Tis a no win situation, I have purposely gone out and purchased a boat, an umbrella and a raincoat for the impending Tear Storm just in case UOForever floods. Oh not forgetting my earplugs and blind fold.
Karl Sagan
Grandmaster
I don't use UOsteam and from what I can discern from past changes the devs seem to be ok with timing idocs as long as you have to have a particular skill set on your characters (necessary if using razor).
There are a few people who have put in the time and teamwork to understand how idocs work, and developed strategies for getting an advantage at them.
Changing the idoc phase to random is just punishing those people so that those who are too lazy to do the work will be on a level playing field with those who do.
It's just a bunch of people who run around half assing it and finding greatly worns or idocs and camping them, then we come in with our EARNED advantage and those without cry foul.
The 'win' would be blocking automated scripts that recall around checking houses or run rails checking every house on the shard.
There will always be people who are smarter or prepare better in UO. It's already happened on UOF before where a group uses legitimate game mechanics and TACTICS to gain an advantage. People cried and needs ensued.
I imagine this will go much the same way, unfortunately. Cutting off the nose to spite the face...*sigh*
drinn
Grandmaster
Great conversations here. Was kinda surprise seeing such.
I personally respect IDOC hunters. All their effort, time and dedication for IDOCs: camping,getting exact timers, then a good PvP team behind it to control the IDOC. All that work for receiving cool items and earning millions of money. They really deserve it. Especially that part of getting exact timer I really give high value. I managed to get somewhat exact timers for a couple of IDOCs, but then my chances were turned down due to big IDOC guilds, who control them better with mass and that way power.
If IDOC's time gets random 4-8 hours, that would only mean tactical changes for bigger IDOC guilds. They will continue dominating IDOCs nevertheless this change since they got players. It only needs a tactical change.
What I find silly about this shard's IDOCing is the house decay times of somewhat and fairly worns. In my opinion they are too long. Maybe rather change their times than IDOCs? Of course that IDOC time change is good for players. Gives others more chances and are giving challenges for bigger IDOC guilds and their boredom of dominating IDOCs. There will probably come a change for empty plots. Their time will go faster in order to release plots for new players.
About scripts.. well I think they are good. Players receiving intelligence by using complicated scripts, or writing them. Getting to know about script languages via video games. I believe scripts will change this game totally in a positive and inspirative way. Think about all these Razor, UOSteam (new), UO Architect, UOAM, Pandora's Box and other UO tools. Most been player-made. You never know, where these scripts will get yourself.
Obviously I'm missing some good old classic PvP without self-heal macros and stuff like that. Ppl actually clicking spell icons and such. Needs some controlling skills.
It's sad that people are not actually playing this game, but then again this is an old game, very old. Who would have time for doing leveling for such an old game? Most here probably began UO, when they were like 12-year-old kids. During that time we had a lot of spare time to throw for this great game. Now as grown-ups we don't have time anymore to waste. So scripts comes handy. They have said gaming begins after leveling.
So I really think scripts are doing good.
I personally respect IDOC hunters. All their effort, time and dedication for IDOCs: camping,getting exact timers, then a good PvP team behind it to control the IDOC. All that work for receiving cool items and earning millions of money. They really deserve it. Especially that part of getting exact timer I really give high value. I managed to get somewhat exact timers for a couple of IDOCs, but then my chances were turned down due to big IDOC guilds, who control them better with mass and that way power.
If IDOC's time gets random 4-8 hours, that would only mean tactical changes for bigger IDOC guilds. They will continue dominating IDOCs nevertheless this change since they got players. It only needs a tactical change.
What I find silly about this shard's IDOCing is the house decay times of somewhat and fairly worns. In my opinion they are too long. Maybe rather change their times than IDOCs? Of course that IDOC time change is good for players. Gives others more chances and are giving challenges for bigger IDOC guilds and their boredom of dominating IDOCs. There will probably come a change for empty plots. Their time will go faster in order to release plots for new players.
About scripts.. well I think they are good. Players receiving intelligence by using complicated scripts, or writing them. Getting to know about script languages via video games. I believe scripts will change this game totally in a positive and inspirative way. Think about all these Razor, UOSteam (new), UO Architect, UOAM, Pandora's Box and other UO tools. Most been player-made. You never know, where these scripts will get yourself.
Obviously I'm missing some good old classic PvP without self-heal macros and stuff like that. Ppl actually clicking spell icons and such. Needs some controlling skills.
It's sad that people are not actually playing this game, but then again this is an old game, very old. Who would have time for doing leveling for such an old game? Most here probably began UO, when they were like 12-year-old kids. During that time we had a lot of spare time to throw for this great game. Now as grown-ups we don't have time anymore to waste. So scripts comes handy. They have said gaming begins after leveling.
So I really think scripts are doing good.
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berticus
Grandmaster
I find that most people who don't like the system don't know how to work it, or can't find people to roll with to make themselves successful.
Again, I would share all the scripts/tactcis we use if it would make people more inclined to put forth effort up front and make themselves more able to hit more than 1 idoc in a 10 hour period.
However, I re-read all this and find people arguing about steam/scripts. Again again, razor does the same shit. Changing the timer could be interesting, but making a wide open window will really decrease the interest in idocs on the whole.
Again, I would share all the scripts/tactcis we use if it would make people more inclined to put forth effort up front and make themselves more able to hit more than 1 idoc in a 10 hour period.
However, I re-read all this and find people arguing about steam/scripts. Again again, razor does the same shit. Changing the timer could be interesting, but making a wide open window will really decrease the interest in idocs on the whole.
Kraden
Grandmaster
You clearly can't read like @wreckognize I said i dont idoc alot but i still doubt youll get more people to idoc by making them wait four to eight hours because i know for a fact that i wouldnt The only time i would, would be to help the guild run it for pvp fun or because it was a nice plot. Either way just my opinion and thoughts on timing. If it aint broke dont fix it. Or do fix it then break it more and end up worse off. Either way i dont care there is plenty of other stuff to do
berticus
Grandmaster
haha my brother got his feathers all ruffled by this. lazy little twat needs to make his own forum account.
i think it'll be an interesting change. i do agree that a variance could be fun, but i find a 4 hour window just insanely big.
i personally have run through most of what the game has to offer. aside from helping others, fooling with idocs and doing some peeveepee which no one in this household is relatively good with i'm beginning to run out of shit to do while playing. doesn't help that i've lost my job and justin's constantly wanting more fat lewts. so sick of checking runebooks haha.
the system change could be entertaining. educating the youth on how to work the present system might make them enjoy it as it is a bit more. the fact that you have people screaming about companions being cheaters and giving away timers shows that some of those who aren't happy about the way things are going don't understand why events unfold in the way they do.
i think it'll be an interesting change. i do agree that a variance could be fun, but i find a 4 hour window just insanely big.
i personally have run through most of what the game has to offer. aside from helping others, fooling with idocs and doing some peeveepee which no one in this household is relatively good with i'm beginning to run out of shit to do while playing. doesn't help that i've lost my job and justin's constantly wanting more fat lewts. so sick of checking runebooks haha.
the system change could be entertaining. educating the youth on how to work the present system might make them enjoy it as it is a bit more. the fact that you have people screaming about companions being cheaters and giving away timers shows that some of those who aren't happy about the way things are going don't understand why events unfold in the way they do.
I think we have come up with a solution that will satisfy both Shane and current IDOCers. I'll run it by Shane whenever he is around.
We are going to put in a small anti-script gump to get the current state of a house. How does everyone feel about this? It will be a match the symbol type gump. Annoying, but it will be super effective at negating house age scripts.
We are going to put in a small anti-script gump to get the current state of a house. How does everyone feel about this? It will be a match the symbol type gump. Annoying, but it will be super effective at negating house age scripts.
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