Ya I dont know what happened with the UO drama tbh. Im new to UOF but this account is years old. I assume it was some UOG drama stuff. LOL.
Fix Archer or make pots unthrowable while moving.
- Thread starter Streets
- Start date
wkstrm
Master
When I played OSI I remember that the huge discussion was how over-powered stealth archers were (bushido/stealth/archer-build).
They would basically one-shot you and you would have no chance seeing it coming.
On UOG I made a stealth archer with what was possible there and a Vanq/Supreme Heavy X-Bow + Purple Potion + explo spell would definatly kill un-suspecting targets. It would severely wound a heavy geared PVP/PVM character. But that required some macros and timing to get things to hit kind of at the same time.
Like I think having the ability to deal out huge Vanq shots while tossing purples (and if faction following it up with instant wand, or maybe something like the old flame-conch from before last patches battle-bard)instantaneously could be pretty bad. Not necessarily against it. Just wondering what the change is about (if any) so that it could be fully understood the argument.
Because of Archerys inherent distance damage it seems logical it was also gimped by no purples to prevent a perceived OP mechanic.
I'd have to take a few minutes to examine myself, but can you like disarm bow, cook pot, re-arm bow, fire shot, dis-arm bow and throw potion?
That seems slightly convoluted but not too extreme if so. It makes a little bit of "earn it" to the whole standing 10 tiles away and dealing damage.
Just trying to get full picture. Too lazy to log on an archer right now and test.
Because of Archerys inherent distance damage it seems logical it was also gimped by no purples to prevent a perceived OP mechanic.
I'd have to take a few minutes to examine myself, but can you like disarm bow, cook pot, re-arm bow, fire shot, dis-arm bow and throw potion?
That seems slightly convoluted but not too extreme if so. It makes a little bit of "earn it" to the whole standing 10 tiles away and dealing damage.
Just trying to get full picture. Too lazy to log on an archer right now and test.
Melee dexers can throw potions with 2H because at the end of the day they still have to manipulate their character besides your character direct tile-to-tile to kill you (unless they just explo pot you down I guess, but you know what I mean for the example).
An archer thats allowed to 2H and use explos would be allowed to kill people almost moving. Yes they have to stop to actually fire shots, but they can kill from multiple tiles away. It seems not a big deal if they can use potions as i described above. If true that means they have to "earn it" as I mentioned. They have to think about what theyre doing a bit more, and actually time their button presses a bit different than a melee dexer.
An archer thats allowed to 2H and use explos would be allowed to kill people almost moving. Yes they have to stop to actually fire shots, but they can kill from multiple tiles away. It seems not a big deal if they can use potions as i described above. If true that means they have to "earn it" as I mentioned. They have to think about what theyre doing a bit more, and actually time their button presses a bit different than a melee dexer.
wkstrm
Master
If I'm not mistake there is a slight delay before the shot is actually fired, so it's not like stop and instantly fire, so yes, the argument that you need to earn it is very valid. Although, it's very hard to kill someone with a bow/x-bow if you're figthing a melee or mage. Maybe some changes to the damage dealth from arrows could "balance" any imbalance that is? Like bleeding damage that will require longer heal time from bandages or heal less with magic spells/potions?
Not against any changes. Probably in support.
just trying to see full argument. both sides. devils advocate. blah blah.
The argument is "all other 2H can throw explos except Archery, lets fix that" but I think it has to be understood why Archery cannot throw while equipped. I am just guessing but I bet its because Archery already does significantly quick and forceful DISTANCE damage. Allowing unhindered explo throwing would be too extreme an advantage.
To compensate bow users can still throw potions they just have to "earn it" as I described above. This lets them effectively fire arrows/bots and explo potions as fast as possible but they have to fumble a bit of a few keypresses in between. You might even skip an action frame and "miss" an opportunity to fire by dropping bow/xbow to arm/throw a potion instead of just staying equipped and auto-firing with bow. Better players will time their equip and de-equips between timing windows to keep more shots depending on scenario.
Brings in dynamism. You have choices to make. Drop or equip bow? Take more bow shots or go for (hopefully) definite potion damage. Also forces interaction thru tequip/de-equip to introduce possible human error. Separates skill level. Increases range of effectiveness depending on user.
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wkstrm
Master
I agree with you, I'm no PVP'er but I've dabbled a bit with just archery and PK'ing because I like the more odd things to do. As I described in this post: Fix Archer or make pots unthrowable while moving.
There is probably some kind of balancing done, but I also find it hard to reach the really overpowered status on archery and pots. Shooting is very slow even with the bow and on the time it takes inbetween 2 shots your opponent have the chance of closing in the distance between you and them plus chugging pots to bost themself and throwing explos at you. I think some more experienced PVP'ers should try it out for a while to see what they find out.
There is probably some kind of balancing done, but I also find it hard to reach the really overpowered status on archery and pots. Shooting is very slow even with the bow and on the time it takes inbetween 2 shots your opponent have the chance of closing in the distance between you and them plus chugging pots to bost themself and throwing explos at you. I think some more experienced PVP'ers should try it out for a while to see what they find out.
Ya my experience with an archer in pvp is very limited so its hard. I dont think opening it up would mean wed be over run with pvp archers the next day owning all of us.
It honestly seems more like a restriction to prevent really good people who understand timing windows, swing/shot speeds, potion throwings and Dress/Undress macros really well from doing even better.
And I think I expressed elsewhere that balancing PvP around top play may or may not be the best goal.
id say i think currently its more interesting (read dynamic) system that rewards more skillful play but opening it up would be a pretty decent buff to Archery. not sure if needed. open to saying sure buff it. pity to see the more interesting mechanic go away and that maybe the top percent of players would really use that as an excuse to pump out auto fire purps while essentially nailing you with bow/xbow. very little change for pvm or more casual bow user
Ok great input a few things to point out:
"When I played OSI I remember that the huge discussion was how over-powered stealth archers were (bushido/stealth/archer-build).
They would basically one-shot you and you would have no chance seeing it coming."
We don't have Bushido so this can never be an issue, thank God!
"canyou like disarm bow, cook pot, re-arm bow, fire shot, dis-arm bow and throw potion?"
And
"If I'm not mistake there is a slight delay before the shot is actually fired, so it's not like stop and instantly fire"
There is a delay when you equip also an interruption if you move, meaning if you see the arrow animation fire and you begin running the arrow resets and does not count. Now if your target is running forget about it. Everyone knows what it's like when you fire a fireball or dragon breath at you but you don't take the damage right away cause you are running? Same shit happens with arrows by the time the player does take damage he/she is clear off the screen!
"Melee dexers can throw potions with 2H because at the end of the day they still have to manipulate their character besides your character direct tile-to-tile to kill you (unless they just explo pot you down I guess, but you know what I mean for the example)."
Here lies the problem though, as an Archer even if I get into melee range a melee fighter can still swing. Archers can not because they are moving. Melee has the best of both worlds being able to swing in melee range if they get close enough and the ability to fire in the move with purple pots. Archery by contrast can't swing while moving, can't fire while moving and can't pot with 2 weapon in hand.
Now pointing out another issue is if you drop your bow to pot you are pretty much vulnerable due to not having a weapon skill. Something melee does not have to concern themselves with. I am not saying purple pots with archery is the answer the point is to show the blatant I'm balance here. I am not blaming the devs or anything it may have been something that has been overlooked all this time I dunno. Hell I would be happy to do pots other than purple just so I don't have to keep screwing with the swing timers!
And I am in no way saying archery is bad for pvm this is strictly a PvP issue. Hell even if there was reduced damage for firing on the move it wouldn't effect pvm as we kite effectively already.
Ending this wall of text with a thanks, as everyone has valid opinions it hasn't been nasty or troll filled. Keep up the creative discussion for and agenst plz.
"When I played OSI I remember that the huge discussion was how over-powered stealth archers were (bushido/stealth/archer-build).
They would basically one-shot you and you would have no chance seeing it coming."
We don't have Bushido so this can never be an issue, thank God!
"canyou like disarm bow, cook pot, re-arm bow, fire shot, dis-arm bow and throw potion?"
And
"If I'm not mistake there is a slight delay before the shot is actually fired, so it's not like stop and instantly fire"
There is a delay when you equip also an interruption if you move, meaning if you see the arrow animation fire and you begin running the arrow resets and does not count. Now if your target is running forget about it. Everyone knows what it's like when you fire a fireball or dragon breath at you but you don't take the damage right away cause you are running? Same shit happens with arrows by the time the player does take damage he/she is clear off the screen!
"Melee dexers can throw potions with 2H because at the end of the day they still have to manipulate their character besides your character direct tile-to-tile to kill you (unless they just explo pot you down I guess, but you know what I mean for the example)."
Here lies the problem though, as an Archer even if I get into melee range a melee fighter can still swing. Archers can not because they are moving. Melee has the best of both worlds being able to swing in melee range if they get close enough and the ability to fire in the move with purple pots. Archery by contrast can't swing while moving, can't fire while moving and can't pot with 2 weapon in hand.
Now pointing out another issue is if you drop your bow to pot you are pretty much vulnerable due to not having a weapon skill. Something melee does not have to concern themselves with. I am not saying purple pots with archery is the answer the point is to show the blatant I'm balance here. I am not blaming the devs or anything it may have been something that has been overlooked all this time I dunno. Hell I would be happy to do pots other than purple just so I don't have to keep screwing with the swing timers!
And I am in no way saying archery is bad for pvm this is strictly a PvP issue. Hell even if there was reduced damage for firing on the move it wouldn't effect pvm as we kite effectively already.
Ending this wall of text with a thanks, as everyone has valid opinions it hasn't been nasty or troll filled. Keep up the creative discussion for and agenst plz.
healmagePRO.
Expert
....... lol wut in the fuk this aint fire breath boy
shirtandpantsman
Grandmaster
honestly the easiest change that would make me happy is increase archery accuracy. that's all I need to be happy
there is something fucky when I can miss 14 times in a row with a +25 accuracy heavy x bow with talisman and arms lore - do you know how long 14 shots with a heavy x bow is? i could wrestle a mob to death faster than that
and of course this is fully repaired and I've eaten food, but not tooo much food, wouldn't want to get bloated to appease the accuracy gods
edit : also back in the day very early in OSI UO you could drink pots while wielding bows, not sure if you could throw purps though because nobody used them
oh and one other thing, does armor affect archery dmg more than other melee dmg? seems like any chump wearing store bought leather halves the damage
there is something fucky when I can miss 14 times in a row with a +25 accuracy heavy x bow with talisman and arms lore - do you know how long 14 shots with a heavy x bow is? i could wrestle a mob to death faster than that
and of course this is fully repaired and I've eaten food, but not tooo much food, wouldn't want to get bloated to appease the accuracy gods
edit : also back in the day very early in OSI UO you could drink pots while wielding bows, not sure if you could throw purps though because nobody used them
oh and one other thing, does armor affect archery dmg more than other melee dmg? seems like any chump wearing store bought leather halves the damage
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drasked
Grandmaster
Archery is strong.
Had to fix for you. If it was so strong we would hear cries of how people where owned in PvP cause it's too good.
drasked
Grandmaster
I have seen plenty of people doing work on archers in both field and pk situations.
drasked
Grandmaster
shirtandpantsman
Grandmaster
I dropped arms lore for swords on my pvmer and use archery mainly for pvm (if you use +25 bow in theory you don't need armslore) and use my DP'd katana for pvp/pk encounters
it usually surprises people when youre killing mobs with a bow and then whip out your dp'd katana when they decide to fuck with you. I try to get people poisoned and then switch to bow and hope to get a shot or two off as theyre running away or curing
My eyes started to bleed at the 2 minute mark. Can you tell me where the archery begins? I see alot of archery misses, dropping bow to use magery cause archery was not cutting it and we'll alot of things other than archery going in there just cause you have an stack of arrows in your pack and a bow you keep equipping and unequiping does not make you an Archer any more than dunking your head in a toilet makes you an Olympic swimmer.