Double Strike Relic with Archery

VFingerDiscount

VFingerDiscount

Grandmaster
eppy said:
It does work for archers. So do the rest of them. Phase shift will put you right on top of the mob. Infected wounds lets you shoot poison arrows. Tread requires you to push the mob so right on top of it. Double strike is a double swing. We never claimed you could just play the same way you always have played a skillset to make it work the best. Some of the top level talismen players have really strange templates to maximize certain skills. An archer can put out some very good damage, but you cant play it like you always have kiting to out of spell range. Shake it up a little and learn how to maximize whatever you find interesting.
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I agree with everything except the double strike portion.

The description given by Shane specifically says double strike gives you two arrows and says nothing about a range limit less than standard bow range.

That said, with all relics on talisman it would not be worth it to stay at max range away from mob but maybe there shouldn't be a range limit on that specific relic?
 
Modus

Modus

Master
range of 5 to proc dbl strike? good lord, that does not sound like the initial shoot 2 arrows thing.
 
dobber

dobber

Grandmaster
eppy said:
It does work for archers. So do the rest of them. Phase shift will put you right on top of the mob. Infected wounds lets you shoot poison arrows. Tread requires you to push the mob so right on top of it. Double strike is a double swing. We never claimed you could just play the same way you always have played a skillset to make it work the best. Some of the top level talismen players have really strange templates to maximize certain skills. An archer can put out some very good damage, but you cant play it like you always have kiting to out of spell range. Shake it up a little and learn how to maximize whatever you find interesting.
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Why should an archer have to shake it up? The way of the arrow isn't to see how close you can get to your enemy before you shoot him/her/it. I propose you make this 5 tile limit for the mage relics as well. Let's see how things shake out with them.
 
VFingerDiscount

VFingerDiscount

Grandmaster
dobber said:
Why should an archer have to shake it up? The way of the arrow isn't to see how close you can get to your enemy before you shoot him/her/it. I propose you make this 5 tile limit for the mage relics as well. Let's see how things shake out with them.
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We've had to change our way of hunting already as mages, for example, not using evs as poisoners and meat shields, we wear no armor at all for max gains and have to change template to even come close to dexxer type hunting and even then our mana gets exhausted and retreat is required.

I think the way the talismans and relics for mage and dex are setup is fine except for the double strike, which I think should apply to all weapons equally in line with their natural usage i.e. no artificial restriction on bow range.

All of the other relics have their own special usages that do go against conventional methods and I don't see any problem with that.
 
Lord_Puffy

Lord_Puffy

Grandmaster
I think that archery and magery relics should both work from the same distance as they are both overpowered ranged attacks.
 
VFingerDiscount

VFingerDiscount

Grandmaster
Lord_Puffy said:
I think that archery and magery relics should both work from the same distance as they are both overpowered ranged attacks.
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Except magery is finite based on mana and archery is limited only by the amount of arrows you're able to hold and traditionally in RPGs wizard have the high damage with the easily expendable mana pool. So the comparison is apples and oranges.
 
dobber

dobber

Grandmaster
Lord_Puffy said:
I think that archery and magery relics should both work from the same distance as they are both overpowered ranged attacks.
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Agree the distance should be the same. A mage being able to cast 12 tiles away and an archer 5 is pretty imbalanced and really annoying for an archer. But, I don't think they are OP. When I do champs with some buddies that are melee dexxers with talismans and not even any relics, their scores are always close to double my score. I don't have a comparison with a mage talisman that puts in equal time and effort in champs, but melee dexxers are way more OP than archer dexxers (not counting provo archers).
 
Lord_Puffy

Lord_Puffy

Grandmaster
dobber said:
Agree the distance should be the same. A mage being able to cast 12 tiles away and an archer 5 is pretty imbalanced and really annoying for an archer. But, I don't think they are OP. When I do champs with some buddies that are melee dexxers with talismans and not even any relics, their scores are always close to double my score. I don't have a comparison with a mage talisman that puts in equal time and effort in champs, but melee dexxers are way more OP than archer dexxers (not counting provo archers).
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When I say OP I just mean vs mobs. the damge output is ridiculous w a level 10 beserker/doublestrike. You throw in a phase w that and your talking 1200-1400 dmg in 3 hits. Thats also w a lumberjack, but still the dmg is just insane.

*edit* which its well worth it because of the time needed in order to grind them up to level 10.
 
Lord_Puffy

Lord_Puffy

Grandmaster
VFingerDiscount said:
Except magery is finite based on mana and archery is limited only by the amount of arrows you're able to hold and traditionally in RPGs wizard have the high damage with the easily expendable mana pool. So the comparison is apples and oranges.
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Excatly we could go back and forth on it, I will agree to disagree. I would just like to see the relics work based off of the distances of the ranged attacks themselves.
 
VFingerDiscount

VFingerDiscount

Grandmaster
So...a slayer weapon will hit for more damage than any spell every time with no cost involved to the dexxer while mage expends resources and drains mana pool but you think they should be even? OK bud.
 
dobber

dobber

Grandmaster
VFingerDiscount said:
So...a slayer weapon will hit for more damage than any spell every time with no cost involved to the dexxer while mage expends resources and drains mana pool but you think they should be even? OK bud.
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Good dexxer slayer weapons cost 40k+ and always a risk to lose it out in the field. Don't mages have blessed slayer spell books?
 
VFingerDiscount

VFingerDiscount

Grandmaster
Peepin'Tom said:
Archery also has no special move, is slow as fuck, and requires you to stand still. There is no reason to gimp it further. @eppy
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I think y'all are confusing the two things that we're talking about.

I'm all for removing the range restriction while using archery. I'm just against trying to compare it to mage casting. [emoji85]
 
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