Lexington
Grandmaster
Nope just most expensive and time consuming to build....
You need to see a meta archer one shot an arch ice fiend and then tell me my tamers is the best weapon in game
|Any chance?
- Thread starter Cinder
- Start date
Nope just most expensive and time consuming to build....
You need to see a meta archer one shot an arch ice fiend and then tell me my tamers is the best weapon in game
Lexington
Grandmaster
I don't......... neither do you.
kurtis
Grandmaster
Pets are on easy mode on this server: crazy strong meta pets and relics, pet bonding, pet balls, using skill scrolls on them, I won't even bother listing it all. I think there's a tendency to take for granted how good staff has made being a tamer. We get accustomed to a level of ease and we push to make it easier and easier. Putting a halt to the coddling of tamers is long overdue, in my opinion. And this is coming from someone who was/is in LORE, a prominent tamers-only guild.
That said, I can understand the frustration of having your pets blue-pked. There's something very broken about having someone try to kill your pets, and if you attack the griefer to defend your pet, you are now flagged to them and they can kill you back without getting a count. Given that there is pet stat loss in place, and having a pet lose skill points is frustrating, I think this needs to be fixed. At the very least, you should be able to freely defend your pet from attacks. And if the griefer decides to then kill you as well, fine let them take a count.
And I think Gluttony's suggestion of increasing the recall/gate restrictions is fine too. Given how attached people are to their pokemons, I can see adding a little extra risk to killing someone's pet. Make the griefer wait it out so they can't just disappear; they'll probably have to defend themselves if they try to grief players who can call in help.
But I strongly disagree that pet stat loss needs to be reduced and that you should get a count. Dying on your tamer is really of no consequence. You lose some barbed armor if you bothered to wear it, some regs, bandaids, and a few pots. Nobody cares about dying unless it causes your pets to die too. And as someone mentioned above, the only reason people bother to protect their pets is because stat loss is just enough to make that a true loss. And the reality is that the only skills that people care about are magery, resist, and poisoning. If you start reducing the loss of those 3 skills, you start reducing the only real risk tamers have. I am happy to see threads like this because it means that on a server where tamers reign supreme, there is some potential downside and there's some way knock them down a notch. As soon as you get to a point where the tamers are happy enough with the stat loss, then you've made it too easy. Plus, I'd personally rather not see a thousand ridiculously high-skilled pets roaming around.
As for pet-killers getting a count, I just think it's too protective. Pets are already ultra-protected. They bond so it's very difficult to lose it. You can ball your pet so if it does get trapped or stolen, you can pop it right back by your side. Add this to the Rings of Forgiveness, where you can literally port to resurrect and then ball your pets away? And let's not forget you can "all follow me" and just recall away from the griefers. I'm not a pet griefer, but I realize that killing people's pets is the balance to how insanely powerful the tamer has become. Griefing is a relative thing. It's only a grief if you care enough about it. And there's always going to be something people care the most about. Right now it's pets. So continually protecting people from whatever they complain about is not a good answer and it sets a bad precedent.
TL;DR stat loss is fine and it's working.
That said, I can understand the frustration of having your pets blue-pked. There's something very broken about having someone try to kill your pets, and if you attack the griefer to defend your pet, you are now flagged to them and they can kill you back without getting a count. Given that there is pet stat loss in place, and having a pet lose skill points is frustrating, I think this needs to be fixed. At the very least, you should be able to freely defend your pet from attacks. And if the griefer decides to then kill you as well, fine let them take a count.
And I think Gluttony's suggestion of increasing the recall/gate restrictions is fine too. Given how attached people are to their pokemons, I can see adding a little extra risk to killing someone's pet. Make the griefer wait it out so they can't just disappear; they'll probably have to defend themselves if they try to grief players who can call in help.
But I strongly disagree that pet stat loss needs to be reduced and that you should get a count. Dying on your tamer is really of no consequence. You lose some barbed armor if you bothered to wear it, some regs, bandaids, and a few pots. Nobody cares about dying unless it causes your pets to die too. And as someone mentioned above, the only reason people bother to protect their pets is because stat loss is just enough to make that a true loss. And the reality is that the only skills that people care about are magery, resist, and poisoning. If you start reducing the loss of those 3 skills, you start reducing the only real risk tamers have. I am happy to see threads like this because it means that on a server where tamers reign supreme, there is some potential downside and there's some way knock them down a notch. As soon as you get to a point where the tamers are happy enough with the stat loss, then you've made it too easy. Plus, I'd personally rather not see a thousand ridiculously high-skilled pets roaming around.
As for pet-killers getting a count, I just think it's too protective. Pets are already ultra-protected. They bond so it's very difficult to lose it. You can ball your pet so if it does get trapped or stolen, you can pop it right back by your side. Add this to the Rings of Forgiveness, where you can literally port to resurrect and then ball your pets away? And let's not forget you can "all follow me" and just recall away from the griefers. I'm not a pet griefer, but I realize that killing people's pets is the balance to how insanely powerful the tamer has become. Griefing is a relative thing. It's only a grief if you care enough about it. And there's always going to be something people care the most about. Right now it's pets. So continually protecting people from whatever they complain about is not a good answer and it sets a bad precedent.
TL;DR stat loss is fine and it's working.
Kurtis, there has to be a balance. Right now it takes quite some time to regain the skills lost. I suggest a monetary or time hit. Both are Money out of the tamers pocket.
If I get griefed and have to pet ball my pet it is about 17k loss right there. Then I have to spend over 25k in skill scrolls if I am lucky to find them.
That is over 42 k in losses.
Equate that to a dexer who can buy a slayer weapon and some nice armor for way less than 8-10k with minimal time loss.
It just doesn't add up.
Also, the fact that there wasn't a 25+ Mil investment in the pet.
The math doesn't add up for the penalty. I am fine paying out of pocket to recoup the stat loss, i Just don't have the time to go scouting all the skill scrolls to regain.
I vote #2, pet time out of skills like Dexxer.
If I get griefed and have to pet ball my pet it is about 17k loss right there. Then I have to spend over 25k in skill scrolls if I am lucky to find them.
That is over 42 k in losses.
Equate that to a dexer who can buy a slayer weapon and some nice armor for way less than 8-10k with minimal time loss.
It just doesn't add up.
Also, the fact that there wasn't a 25+ Mil investment in the pet.
The math doesn't add up for the penalty. I am fine paying out of pocket to recoup the stat loss, i Just don't have the time to go scouting all the skill scrolls to regain.
I vote #2, pet time out of skills like Dexxer.
Cinder
Master
Thanks guys for all of your informative input.
Kurtis you made good points about tamers having it good here, and I agree.
But I am with Grizard , when it comes to believing we need more balance.
His numbers are correct. And that is if you can find the scrolls. They are more difficult to come by these days.
I hope Staff takes the time to read our ideas and considers our issues.
I love this server and have many great adventures!!
Happy Hunts all
Kurtis you made good points about tamers having it good here, and I agree.
But I am with Grizard , when it comes to believing we need more balance.
His numbers are correct. And that is if you can find the scrolls. They are more difficult to come by these days.
I hope Staff takes the time to read our ideas and considers our issues.
I love this server and have many great adventures!!
Happy Hunts all
Lexington
Grandmaster
Unless they had a change of heart from the early days... and I don't think they have. They won't... the staff never wanted a server full of tamers.
It's my assumption the only reason tamers get the new content they do is because it's very good for business. So it only make sense to give the profession some love every now and again. That being said, they sure as hell never made it easy street.... unlike everything else.
Bromista
Grandmaster
I'm all for stat loss in its current state if we just get a little better skill gain rate and find a way to fix the certain skills that don't regain on their own.
One of these days we'll get a tweak...one of these days.
Everything else is pretty good with current metas aside from the teething problems of new meta + relic. But that's not too surprising really.
Well nox needs a tweak. Ideally we could kill two birds with one stone and make nox relic give poisoning gains.
And I think wealth relic is getting/has gotten a tweak?
One of these days we'll get a tweak...one of these days.
Everything else is pretty good with current metas aside from the teething problems of new meta + relic. But that's not too surprising really.
Well nox needs a tweak. Ideally we could kill two birds with one stone and make nox relic give poisoning gains.
And I think wealth relic is getting/has gotten a tweak?
Lexington
Grandmaster
thestand
Grandmaster
You can't train pets in your house on this server? Other shards you could set up 2 pets to attack each other in your house and they would gain skills..
kurtis
Grandmaster
It prevents every pet you see from being as burly as possible. Especially with metas that can have way over GM skills. These pets already have the potential to wreck hard (people and monsters). It allows them to be weakened through some mechanism. Even pets with 70 resist and magery somewhere in the 90's are pretty damn good. Everyone just seems obsessed with keeping their skills at perfect.
It provides at least some deterrence to every single person being a tamer. Even though when you look around dungeons and events, it kind of seems like the stat loss is low enough such that everyone and their mother has a tamer (or several).
It separates good tamers from shitty tamers. Those that are incredible at managing their pets get the reward of having it die less and have higher skills. They get an advantage over shitty tamers by being good. Those that are literally all kill spam bots are going to suffer for trying to take advantage of an outrageously powerful tool and sucking at it.
Classic risk/reward arguments. Tamers have the potential for massive rewards. Some appropriate risk should come with it.
Lexington
Grandmaster
All well thought out arguments... and in a perfect "Trammel type" world all the things you mentioned would be necessary (maybe)?
In this world though... all it really did was give the shit class of UO the perfect grief target.
Cinder
Master
My thoughts exactly Lexington!
You are correct about most every thing you say Kurtis, and I agree.
My pet against spawn is awesome, and I can maintain It's health.
But to have a bunch of Blues, pet griefers pop in and gank it , with no consequences, is the issue.
Basically, they go around with the soul reason of killing pets, putting us in the pet skill loss dilemma.
You are correct about most every thing you say Kurtis, and I agree.
My pet against spawn is awesome, and I can maintain It's health.
But to have a bunch of Blues, pet griefers pop in and gank it , with no consequences, is the issue.
Basically, they go around with the soul reason of killing pets, putting us in the pet skill loss dilemma.
lollo
Grandmaster
Either pet skill loss should go away if killed by a blue player (dunno if it's possible to implement this) or murder counts should be given for killing blue pets
GluttonySDS
Grandmaster
Kill a pet, get a count. Have more than 1 count, can't recall if flagged. Punishes both reds and blue griefers...best solution.