Why aren't guild sizes limited?

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Malkraven

Malkraven

Grandmaster
i did a cpl of lvl 6 tmaps this morning cos i was bored as fuck i see 1 red guy he totaly blanked me left me to my trammy ways. a few maps later i see 2 blues whats the first thing they done? run over and start to loot the corpses and run off lol.....


Blues are far more griefey than 90% of reds, you see a red you know whats gonna happen blues are just sneaky fuckers wait till u redlined to attack or loot your kills.
 
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GluttonySDS

GluttonySDS

Grandmaster
Malkraven said:
Blues are far more griefey than 90% of reds, you see a red you know whats gonna happen blues are just sneaky fuckers wait till u redlined to attack or loot your kills.
Click to expand...

The blue griefer problem is worse here than it was on uoforever(which should tell you something is up with the rules as the community there was 10x scummier).

To fix blue griefing:

1. When someone kills your pet, you have the option of giving them a murder count.
2. When someone has 1 or more murder counts, they can not recall while flagged(they must be gated out, fight, or run).
 
Mango

Mango

Grandmaster
gave up trying to play catch up in this thread, but wow. I've never seen such a big group of self-proclaimed badasses scream and cry this hard.

UO: Where men go to become whiny children.
 
M

MagicButtHair

Neophyte
*Consults Magic Butt Hairs*

We don't need to limit guild sizes. That is not the problem. The solution is in plainer sight.

Fix the PK and faction systems and you shall have the fix to your other problems.

*PS The real PKs will still be coming after you to T-bag you with our hairy asses*
 
Cack

Cack

Grandmaster
K A Z said:
why exactly do blues need to be encouraged to kill reds? Blues are PVMing (sacking in reward as in gold and skillscrolls and other goodies), while PKs are trying to take that from them (risking statloss). When a blue kills the red he gets to statloss the PK (-1 global PK + loot from the PK + 25k when the tamer decides to sell the head back). Basically blues get their reward from killing stoopid mobs with little to no risk (whoever dies to mobs on a provo-tamer is a noob) while PKs face statloss and have to fight real human beings for a shot at a reward (that most of the time will be nothing more than 1-4k gold and a +0,1 tactics scroll).
Click to expand...
-1 global red til he switches clients til his alt red.....
Anyway, we are talking about different classes of playstyle....the risk a blue tamer takes is being pked....way it should be.
Theres a buffet of mobs for bards/tamers/dexxets and they in turn are a buffet for reds.
 
Shane

Shane

Administrator
Staff member
GluttonySDS said:
Theres no incentive for large crews(PCH, $, TBA, TRIN) to faction -- improve faction incentives, get the large groups fighting eachother, and this will minimize the dungeon PKing.

All sigil bonuses are either broken or worthless... make it so you can make gold from factioning either through sigil bonuses or through punkte being treated like event score.
Click to expand...


Hmm..
So..
-You want us to give gold giving incentives to factions, so that it attracts or forces PvMers, Crafters, Rpers(maybe), to join factions. All people that normally would not join factions otherwise... Which would also benefit you entirely as well.

-You want us to focus on PvP, revamp the faction system that originally made you come back here, which again, benefits you entirely. (Keeping in mind we've totally revamped factions two or three times now already).

-You do not want any sort of permanent stat loss, or any more "harshness/nerfs" to the player killing system, which agaaaain, benefits you entirely.



However...
- The current "capture points" were based around the idea of getting pvmers involved... it did not work. We had another previous system in place which also did not work.

- Factions were booming before EQMS got entirely too large here, in which you personally had a ton of fun with it over multiple months.

- This is a big one:
You want us to create large incentives/forces other player styles to join factions, aka trying to get crafters, traders, pvmers, tamers whatever else to PvP... HOWEVER on our battles tournament not one EQMS member was top 10 in the list. What happened there?...

These Pvmers are a part of the community, the trades, and have multiple different styles of play which in the end helps everyone as a whole.
If you just log in, Group/PK and log out and never join events, such as the most major one of the year, again what happened there?


Broken down:


IF PERMA STAT LOSS WAS INTRODUCED:
Would force REDS/PK's to be a part of the economy, trade, and community since they would need to buy scrolls, reagents etc to rebuild their character upon stat.

Reds would take their characters more seriously, thus making them more notorious and famous.
If they die, they can rebuild their character faster than the waited timed we currently have in place.
If they die, they are still taken out of the game for awhile which makes killing reds satisfying as hell.
If they die, they need to buy resources to regain those skills.
They buy these resources with the valuables/gold/loot they obtained from killing people. (which is ALOT).
They put those valuables back into the economy where it originally was.
This forces them to be a part of our community, and economy trade- EVEN if they are the crappy guy that logs in, pk's, logs out.
The circle of life.


I am trying to lay stuff out in full detail for people lately of why i make decisions, and how i make them based on my personal experiences.



Since factually PK's are the largest reason for players quitting, i think forcing PKS to be a part of the community is the more reasonable, logical and understandable way to go, instead of trying to force PvMers or those who don't want to PK/PvP into PvP when that player style is the reason why the majority of those PK's/ PvPers are even playing here in the first place.... Also to back this fact up, we've tried enticing PvMers into factions and PvP by revamping factions twice, as well as creating the entire battles system, and more...

I mean we at UOF have more systems in place to ease people into PvP than anywhere else...(Battles system, Zombies events, Duels/tournaments with on the fly templates)...



A little less you, a little more UO FOREVER AS A WHOLE.

I still love you though.
 
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Shane

Shane

Administrator
Staff member
I'm going to lock this thread, i REALLY appreciate everyone keeping this on track as hell.
This was really informative from both sides and is a serious subject not only on Size of guilds, but also larger guilds being PK's (which creates pk problems).

I want to note that i did not mean to point out EQMS at all in a negative way.
From where i stand and know they are all great guys, i've talked to a lot of them in voice chat before and i've pvp'd with some of them. They are all really great guys that want the best for UO FOREVER as far as i'm concerned.

Large guilds /alliances can be a huge problem.
Large guilds/alliances that are all PK's are a larger problem.

Depending on the people of those guilds/alliances, it can be really bad or no issue at all for servers...

I've personally had some bad experiences with some larger guilds on UOF. People can be extremely shady.
EQMS are not shady people however, they are all great. As much as they might PK your characters or talk banter over the forums, they've never crossed lines and the only complaints we ever obtain about them are simply about their size or pking.

We are lucky to have a large guild like this, and mostly a single person that takes the INSANE amount of time to deal with that many guild members...(Glutt) Very few people these days have the luxury or patience and experience to run a large guild and keep shit together by logging on every single day, recruiting, dealing with issues with in that group etc. I've had many people personally give "props" when talking about Glutt for that fact alone.

However,
We can't make decisions based on their size, or that i respect and like them all.... In the end we all need to do whats best for UO FOREVER. This is about thinking outside the box, thinking larger than we are, and not treating this server as some private server that is going to fall at any moment. This is a legitimate server that people join daily, and others come back to time and time again because of how UO FOREVER has consistantly set the bar for every other server out there. We take this seriously for our players, and i think it's only fair for our players to take it seriously for not only other players, but for staff as well.


Overall i think:

If large PK guilds (POWER, EQMS) want us to do MORE for PvP, Revamp Factions, and add incentives so that it would in some way entice or force PvMers/Crafters into PvP(gain more action for them) for their own fun and entertainment by doing things like adding larger rewards, or gold dropping initiatives (which would also completely benefit the PK guilds too)....

The minimal exchange that could happen is for the REDS to be okay with a 10%(TEN PERCENT) Max stat loss upon dying on their PK. I mean this is fucking nothing... The cons VS pros on this for a server as a whole aren't even comparable. It's laughable how the REDS here act so hardcore yet literally want their own version of trammel based on their gameplay. They expect every single pro and benefit for playing the most beneficial, entertaining, do-as-you-please play style. It's so lame, and it's something a lot of people have talked about for a long ass time. There's nothing hardcore, elite or intimidating about REDS here. With free to play, they have ZERO risk, and ALL reward, yet yell trammel! when talking about making things SLIGHTLY harder for them.

I think it is unfair to ask us to do more work, spend more developer money, revamp a system we already have twice+ already, and then add benefits on top of it for your style of game play in hopes that those benefits will also gain you more involvement and action in the game play/style you prefer.... All without giving any trade off.

At that point we feel taken advantage of, and taken for granted.


I think at least TRYING the perma stat loss is a solid start. I'm pretty tired of watching PK's drive people off the server, asking for the most, while not being a part of the community or economy in any other way. It's just not balanced anymore.

Think about it.

This is coming from a player that played every major private server as a PK, PVMer and PvPer including factions (where was feasible) in the last 10+ years.
I was that PK that logged in, killed people, could care less about a server and logged out.
I get that play style totally, and i loved it and had fun... But if that was the answer, those servers wouldn't of died, and we wouldn't be here talking about this right now, would we?.

Learn from others mistakes.
 
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