Why aren't guild sizes limited?

[Lord Hampton Royce]

there are more blues trying to noto pk me than there are pks trying to pk me.

just make attacking other players illegal

 

[GimpCent]

People are going to leave regardless and people always search for a non self blaming reason. It's not me its them, so its not shocking to hear the new guild has 15,000 people and that the number one reason is player killers.

I started off under a different name on this server with no guild tag. I did not find myself having any problems aside from one EQ/MS member killed me when I was afk outside of Moonglow. I did the majority of my leveling in Shame and ran into a total number of zero player killers the whole time well farming and working up my skills.

Instead of looking at numbers within the new guild, one should look at avg hours played. Ultima Online is about getting over that first hump, where you start getting a okay supply stuff making death sting so much less.

Your problem isn't pks @Shane its that first hump, where a person is still deciding if its worth it. It's not player killers that cause him to quit, its a feeling of starting far behind well there is people with castles killing you.

How do you build up from nothing? That's a tough question to ask a new player joining a new server out of no where. Better yet as a game designer how do you make them feel like its possible to build up from nothing, because it clearly is. It's just that first hump sucks.

 

[Sommerella]

If you're running in a group, people are going to be upset no matter what you do.

Everyone calls in.

If you went in with one person, expect 5 to show up. Might as well run with whoever wants to go because another group is going to call in theirs to fight. Isn't it part of the point to run deep in populated areas to start a fight?

@Lord Hampton Royce what are you doing in shame lvl 1 to see us that deep? I know you're not down there dropping shrooms bby.

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

uoforever staff has a habit of 'fixing problems' by either limiting them or completely eliminating them.

ive told adam time and time again if you want to make a productive change that will please everyone, you need to learn to compromise.

instead of limiting guilds, why not encourage smaller-run groups by rewarding them somehow? implement a bounty system for parties/alliances/guilds with less numbers. bounty points turned in for rewards. something gay along those lines.

that way, youre encouraging smaller numbers, not discouraging larger numbers. theres a huge difference.

youre welcome

#AEMforFORUMmod2015

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

If you're running in a group, people are going to be upset no matter what you do.

Everyone calls in.

If you went in with one person, expect 5 to show up. Might as well run with whoever wants to go because another group is going to call in theirs to fight. Isn't it part of the point to run deep in populated areas to start a fight?

@Lord Hampton Royce what are you doing in shame lvl 1 to see us that deep? I know you're not down there dropping shrooms bby.

i came to see you bby. instead i saw a bunch of angry virgins trying to violate my mare.

 

[K A Z]

People are going to leave regardless and people always search for a non self blaming reason. It's not me its them, so its not shocking to hear the new guild has 15,000 people and that the number one reason is player killers.

I started off under a different name on this server with no guild tag. I did not find myself having any problems aside from one EQ/MS member killed me when I was afk outside of Moonglow. I did the majority of my leveling in Shame and ran into a total number of zero player killers the whole time well farming and working up my skills.

Instead of looking at numbers within the new guild, one should look at avg hours played. Ultima Online is about getting over that first hump, where you start getting a okay supply stuff making death sting so much less.

Your problem isn't pks @Shane its that first hump, where a person is still deciding if its worth it. It's not player killers that cause him to quit, its a feeling of starting far behind well there is people with castles killing you.

How do you build up from nothing? That's a tough question to ask a new player joining a new server out of no where. Better yet as a game designer how do you make them feel like its possible to build up from nothing, because it clearly is. It's just that first hump sucks.

maybe the best post in this whole thread. @Shane should definitely read this. I fully agree with you. Over my UO career I've logged into sooo many UO Shards just to quit 10 minutes after because something about it didn't seem to fit my playstyle.

 

[K A Z]

uoforever staff has a habit of 'fixing problems' by either limiting them or completely eliminating them.

ive told adam time and time again if you want to make a productive change that will please everyone, you need to learn to compromise.

instead of limiting guilds, why not encourage smaller-run groups by rewarding them somehow? implement a bounty system for parties/alliances/guilds with less numbers. bounty points turned in for rewards. something gay along those lines.

that way, youre encouraging smaller numbers, not discouraging larger numbers. theres a huge difference.

youre welcome

#AEMforFORUMmod2015

it'd maybe also help if they'd play their own shard from time to time - hell if it's going to help then let em play 200 hp PK hunters with 150 each skill. I just think that its REALLY hard to judge a problem based on player opinions (especially when those opinions come from those who primarily play blues and grief others while doing so)

 

[Jacob Scallywag]

TRIN are the biggest griefers on UOF. Being statted by a role player is the biggest grief on the server and a huge blow to my UO ego.

You can pay the offer fee to feed the kids at the Trinsic Orphanage. If you're head is not worth helping those poor orphans, then so be it.

And if all we are are so called "role players" then how is it that you die to us and get statted?

 

[Deadpool]

People are going to leave regardless and people always search for a non self blaming reason. It's not me its them, so its not shocking to hear the new guild has 15,000 people and that the number one reason is player killers.

I started off under a different name on this server with no guild tag. I did not find myself having any problems aside from one EQ/MS member killed me when I was afk outside of Moonglow. I did the majority of my leveling in Shame and ran into a total number of zero player killers the whole time well farming and working up my skills.

Instead of looking at numbers within the new guild, one should look at avg hours played. Ultima Online is about getting over that first hump, where you start getting a okay supply stuff making death sting so much less.

Your problem isn't pks @Shane its that first hump, where a person is still deciding if its worth it. It's not player killers that cause him to quit, its a feeling of starting far behind well there is people with castles killing you.

How do you build up from nothing? That's a tough question to ask a new player joining a new server out of no where. Better yet as a game designer how do you make them feel like its possible to build up from nothing, because it clearly is. It's just that first hump sucks.

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

lets just all agree the playerbase here sucks, and we should do a server wipe to purge the faggots:

 

[K A Z]

lets just all agree the playerbase here sucks, and we should do a server wipe to purge the faggots:

why don't you come over nd play my fagot ?

 

[Pandone]

this, so much. I'd bet that $ griefs more newbies off the server than EQMS or POWER ever could, yet they're also the most vocal when it comes to harsher PK penalties (reds being the only ones able to stop their griefing madness).

THIS.

 

[Lord Hampton Royce]

why don't you come over nd play my fagot ?

your fagot tastes like dick

 

[Lazenby]

Try to read this, as it's very educational and really shows everyone what i think about over all.


Keep in mind the number one reason people quit is due to being pk'd.
This is an absolute fact and always has been
Basically not being able to even play/grind. Everytime they try as a legit player they just get mowed. People quit so fast over this.

Take your average mediocre "average joe" player as an example:
Player finds UO Forever, hasn't played UO in years or not at all. This player gets set up and logs in finally figures out how to create a char etc. This player does not use 3 accounts. This player also works 50 hour weeks or more, comes home to a naggy wife, puts his kids to bed and finally has some time to enjoy his new found, or returned to favorite game (UOF). This guy logs in, he doesn't macro skills, so he must go out and fight to raise them, maybe he teams up with one or two people from the new guild. They go out, within the first 10 minutes he gets pk'd. He thinks "Oh well, that was exhilarating, part of the game, and goes and restocks. 10 minutes later, BAM get's pk'd again. 9/10 times that guy will log off, and will never play again.

Guess what though?
Mediocre "average joe" is the guy that donates a lot at first because he works a ton, has a wife and kids, and doesn't have much free time to grind and put into UOF every single day.
mediocre "average joe" is that player that makes veterans feel that nostalgic.
mediocre "average joe" is that player that can still be scammed with a scam used back in 2001.
mediocre "average joe" is that player that you see in full plate asking where to buy a horse, or buys/sells horses at WBB.
mediocre "average joe" Is the reason UO FOREVER is where it is.


The guys killing mediocre "average joe"?
The majority of those players log in, PK people and when there's no one left to pk, log out.
The majority of those players are also most vocal about changes/complaints.
The majority of those players do not donate, nor do they PvM or contribute to any other play styles (Some do, i'm not saying ALL)



Sooo... we update, work, market, and pay for ads, to consistently obtain a nice steady flow of mediocre "average joe's" into UO FOREVER , and in the end of ALL of it, UO FOREVER is getting royally fucked in the ass, by that pk player play style.

And the silver lining?
Guess whos money we use to pay for ads and get more people here for those people to have fun with/pk?
That's right, mediocre "average joe's" money, the same average joe player that just wanted to kick back, relax and escape the stress of his life for awhile with what little free time he had.

Can you all totally understand why trammel was implemented now? rofl.. IT blew my mind when i came to all these conclusions by experiencing large guilds, and pk guilds on UOF.

We obviously would never introduce trammel, however you can see how those who give little, ask for a lot while driving away those who give alot and ask for little, and in this situation those who are driven away are supporting the exact people that are driving them away.




All in all,
Having a huge guild constantly zerging definitely drives people away.
Having a huge red guild constantly zerging while pking, can be absolute toxic for a server of this size.


There's 15 thousand players in the new guild.
That tells you how many people join, and quit.
Keep in mind as my original opening statement says, the main reason for people quitting is pk's/unable to play how they wish.
Getting away from 1 or 2 pk's is easy, escaping 10-15 is fucking tough.


I've went above and beyond the issue with larger guilds, but with larger guilds comes larger PK guilds, and all in all it's tying together more than ever lately.

I hope that was a good explanation as to why larger guilds although not breaking rules will need a change and why PK's although not breaking the rules, will need a change.


This is what i think about, my train of thought and that train of thought has done really well for UOFOREVER thus far. This subject is one of the hardest ones i've ever had to deal with on UOF for sure.

The answer is so simple, it has nothing to do with guild mechanics or guild numbers or faction revamps...the amount/influx of incoming players is huge, as is evident if you go stand in Brit graveyard for a few hours. You can find 100 new players easy on a weekend day. I made 2 huge posts about this myself this weekend, with my thoughts in the month I have been here. I have spent a huge amount of time interacting with new players. I also was in EQMS, and a few other big guilds here so I have a good perspective I think.

As Shane stated, new players basically have to jump some hurdles as they get into the server. The first one is the gameplay itself and getting acquainted with UO. They spend a day or 2 doing this, and then they are becoming familiar with the game. Running around killing bunnies with a dagger, foraging bone armor from skeletons in brit gy, maybe they are even lucky enough to get some gear from a veteran player. If they make it this far, that is when the curve starts to pick up. Now they have to leave town and starting going into this huge, overwhelming world we have out there.

Ok, things are going good. They have GMd basic skills like sword and tactics, making some money as they run around vanquishing ettins and ogres from the countryside, thinking about future builds as they meet new people and experience new stuff...one of the first thing people wanna do is get a house. They will start dreaming about that. Asking questions about champs...Ok, so far so good. They are still here. Maybe they found a guild and met some friends.

So now we have a small guild of people, a few of them pitched together to buy a house. They are no longer young players, and they are out exploring the world. They were LUCKY to join a guild that is noob-friendly and the veteran members help them know where to go and where not to go. They listen in the guild chat/alliance chat as people are doing RDA and Champs. Maybe they aren't in vent/mumble yet and they don't know all the details, but I promise you they have RDA/Champs on the mind.
Now, they may have been killed by some reds, greys....or even worse and most common here, harassed by some blues. They made it this far, everything going ok and they are ready for RDA/Champs...They were lucky enough or stubborn enough to go through all the grieifing when they were a new char, the thieves and PKs on every corner of the map, and they perservered through it all with hopes of the gold at the end of the rainbow...

Then, they go to said Champ/RDA and are loving it, then with the champ spawn getting to the best part, 2 of the blues that jumped in from nowhere that have been watching the champ...they jump into vent, and POWER and EQMS comes and steals the champ. Night over. People are pissed. Next week, they do it again. Game over, they quit UO. I met 4 people that went through this already and a few more that I convinced to keep trying and helped them out some. This is such a huge problem, even more than basic PKing...cause if you don't like PKs it is easy to get around them. Hunt outside or somewhere other than Fire/Ice/Destard/Deceit/Despise. Hunt overland. Or just be smart about how you hunt. I haven't been PKd once except on helpless macroing characters or my naked tamer (only by my own guild /wave Glut) it really isnt that hard to not get PKd.

But with champs and rda and end game stuff, what do you do? What other option do you have? And as Shane said, these EXACT players who come into champs/rdas and ruin it for so many "casual Joe" players literally sit in Vent playing LoL or something waiting for the Dingo Light to light up, grab their rangs', and woe be to the noobs who just spent 2 hours on the champ spawn. Then they go back to AFKing at the bank or go play another game while the casual Joes are pissed and fed up with UO.

Just look at the rage posts from yesterday alone, I found 3 of them within an hour of posting this yesterday. What to do? Make some stuff for people to do where they don't have to deal with PKs...not like 24/7 but maybe weekly event or instances for people to do. Some stuff so they can just relax and enjoy the game. Be it instanced Champ/RDA spawns,,,or hell make a dungeon that people can pop once a week for a few hours or something and they get a unique instance. Or brainstorm and think of some great ideas, but I think this is the direction that need to look at.

It takes people some time to get comfortable to the point where the PKs aren't even an issue. But it may be months for some folks. Need to make sure they can go at their own pace and enjoy the game, and eventually they are going to learn to pvp or get with some allies and people like EQMS will be thwarted. Again, I was in EQMS...not everything went perfect, they were dying and going after heads just as much as killing people. Idk why anyone makes EQMS to be this giant steamrolling horde that just facerolls everyone. It is not even close to the truth. That being said, we have a TON of reds/Minax people that all make it suck for newer players.

Hope we can figure out some new ideas to retain more of these new players. It is amazing how many new players come, I mean really...go spent some time around Brit. What if we had 10k people logging in every week, we would have a whole new set of issues. I don't think it would be a bad thing.

Ps- Any players new or old looking for some help or a guild just PM me.

 

[Hugsforpeace]

Guess the moral of this story is..

If you can't beat them, complain about them till they are forced to downsize or disband.

 

[Malkraven]

Fix young status expand on the noobie dungeon area and let them stay inside for a longer time but prevent young player from abusing the other dungeons. Also lets be honest there aint many young player in this thread more like alot of vets crying about getting zerged . @Lord Hampton Royce makes a valid point for a change all of the main guilds atm can field 8+ players at least and there is a wide variety of guilds and alliances for new players to choose from. This is a good thing

Stop crying about action how would you feel if you logged in and was no one fighting at all?


PS remove that fucking anhk from the arch deamon room mayb slickbrick will stop crying...

 

[Guwap]

Fix young status expand on the noobie dungeon area and let them stay inside for a longer time but prevent young player from abusing the other dungeons. Also lets be honest there aint many young player in this thread more like alot of vets crying about getting zerged . @Lord Hampton Royce makes a valid point for a change all of the main guilds atm can field 8+ players at least and there is a wide variety of guilds and alliances for new players to choose from. This is a good thing

Stop crying about action how would you feel if you logged in and was no one fighting at all?

Great post. Sounds like most of the complaints Shane is receiving about pks is coming from solo players (in a massively multiplayer game).

Guild vs. Guild fights right now are as good as they've ever been since I started here almost a year ago.

 

[steve-o]

Why is @steve-o talking about factions and reds, two classes he doesn't have the nuts to play?
Seriously, it's beyond me.

blablabla

i play here since week 2... i did more pvp and factioning then u ever did on any server on mages or dexers ...

 

[GluttonySDS]

blablabla

i play here since week 2... i did more pvp and factioning then u ever did on any server on mages or dexers ...

Never once seen you on a factioner.
Never once seen you on a red.
Never once seen you on anything but a blue tamer.
The end.

 

[Streets]

Why is this thread solely about EQMS? We arent the largest crew on UOF -- PCH/T^C field more than us, TBA/TRIN field more than us. Is it because we are organized and have good PVP leaders, thus we win the vast majority of our fights(regardless of numbers)?

EQMS only PKs in dungeons when theres no where else to get fights... if there was abundant PVP in brit no cut, we would never goto a dungeon whereas other large guilds(POWER for example) exclusively PK in dungeons and dont seek group PVP at all.

As it is though -- we defeated our faction enemies, not once but twice and no one has stepped up to give us a challenge since the 2nd defeat of CoM.

I guess instead of coming up with a better plan to fight us, people die and then cry on the forums.

p.s.

For all the talk about mass recruiting, EQMS is the only guild that it costs gold to join -- so while every other guild mass recruits, we have the strictest barrier to entry of any guild in UOF history.

I can say with honesty that I been pked by eqms at the hedge maze (few screen from my house) called in 3 reinforcements (4v1) for simply attacking the deamons when another toon was trying to farm them. I didn't complain then and not complaining now just not going to let you say something this far off base about not pk'ing in dungeons or a fair fight. It's part of the game I realize but just as @Shane said I am 100% "average joe" explained. I work 11+ days weekends donate because I love and sport this game (I actually consider uof the real uo at this point) but I will admit my frustrations with things going on, hell I just had a 3 page debate on pots and archery in sugestions.