Who is the guy going around scamming houses?

[Blaine the Gypsy]

I suppose I have to ask again to get a response specifically to what I asked;

How is that conducive to a thriving community?


The simple answer, it isn't. This isn't about how YOU view a person, this is about what allowing things like this can do to a community. The ONLY reason this isn't an issue is because he isn't doing it en masse, only sporadically. If 9 out of 10 players were scamming, no one would play here, but they don't. So because scamming only happens so often, it is ACCEPTED. That is sad, it should be TOLERATED to a certain extent, but not accepted. And that seems to be what a lot of people's opinions are.

"People quitting over being scammed is not necessarily bad. It means less weak players, less crybabies, less rage threads, more freedom for those who took their lumps and grew from them, and more REAL UO MEN(and women)."

Just because you lack empathy doesn't mean it is the correct thought pattern. It doesn't mean less weak players, less crybabies. It means more jackasses and less of an economy. 9/10 posts that aren't on the buy/sell are rage posts.

"Not condoned...but certainly expected. People have been pulling crap like this since the game started. In the sandbox game of UO, people can be saints or scum bags."

I swear to god I hope the person who came up with term sandbox rots in hell, because people have no idea what it actually means or what type of game it applies to. This is not a "SANDBOX" game. Being able to make a fencer bard tamer while building a custom house isn't sandbox. It's open world. There is a HUGE difference. And to say "Oh this lessens my sandbox experience!" is asinine, because by that context EVERY RULE ruins your experience. I want to RP a racist bigot, am I allowed? Nope. I want to RP a scammer who only finds new players to chase off, am I allowed? Yep. Why? Because being a racist bigot in Britain bank will chase 10 times the amount of people off the sever as one person scamming three or four people would. At the end of the day, it is wrong, it shouldn't be allowed, but it isn't enough of a problem to warrant action. That's the only argument that I can think of that would rationally go against it being a punishable offense.

Truth and logical.

 

[Karl Sagan]

I suppose I have to ask again to get a response specifically to what I asked;

How is that conducive to a thriving community?


The simple answer, it isn't. This isn't about how YOU view a person, this is about what allowing things like this can do to a community. The ONLY reason this isn't an issue is because he isn't doing it en masse, only sporadically. If 9 out of 10 players were scamming, no one would play here, but they don't. So because scamming only happens so often, it is ACCEPTED. That is sad, it should be TOLERATED to a certain extent, but not accepted. And that seems to be what a lot of people's opinions are.

"People quitting over being scammed is not necessarily bad. It means less weak players, less crybabies, less rage threads, more freedom for those who took their lumps and grew from them, and more REAL UO MEN(and women)."

Just because you lack empathy doesn't mean it is the correct thought pattern. It doesn't mean less weak players, less crybabies. It means more jackasses and less of an economy. 9/10 posts that aren't on the buy/sell are rage posts.

"Not condoned...but certainly expected. People have been pulling crap like this since the game started. In the sandbox game of UO, people can be saints or scum bags."

I swear to god I hope the person who came up with term sandbox rots in hell, because people have no idea what it actually means or what type of game it applies to. This is not a "SANDBOX" game. Being able to make a fencer bard tamer while building a custom house isn't sandbox. It's open world. There is a HUGE difference. And to say "Oh this lessens my sandbox experience!" is asinine, because by that context EVERY RULE ruins your experience. I want to RP a racist bigot, am I allowed? Nope. I want to RP a scammer who only finds new players to chase off, am I allowed? Yep. Why? Because being a racist bigot in Britain bank will chase 10 times the amount of people off the sever as one person scamming three or four people would. At the end of the day, it is wrong, it shouldn't be allowed, but it isn't enough of a problem to warrant action. That's the only argument that I can think of that would rationally go against it being a punishable offense.

I think it's conducive to a thriving community because it helps separate and remove those players who believe they are entitled to protection from their own carelessness.

I think it's conducive to a thriving community because it FORCES player driven solutions.

I think it is conducive to a thriving community because a thriving community NEEDS bad guys, people to hate, people to watch out for, and people to rally behind.

I think it is conducive to a thriving community because it encourages player conflict.

A thriving community is not a bunch of people who do nothing but cooperate and get along. That is boring and stagnant. A thriving community is a cacophony of laughter and tears, cheers of victory and wails of defeat, words of wisdom, support, helpfulness, mockery, anger and hate. It is dynamic, not one sided.

UOF is a fairly 'hard core' ruleset. Only a few artificial limitations on player actions exist. That principle is pretty important to most people who play here.

Also, I do not lack empathy.

 

[Bill Bryson]

I think this would be a big deal if the trade system was inherently bad/unsecured, or if somebody was taking advantage of an exploit or bug. The truth of the matter is, the trade system is very secure and requires both parties to confirm the deal in question. The tools are in place for people to make safe and clear trades. If a player fails to do their due diligence, or puts their trust in the word of another player, then the fault can only lie with them.

The reason why 9/10 people aren't scamming is because there aren't enough foolish people for all of them to make the scamming worth their while. Realistically, only an extremely small portion of the community would fall for this, most of whom are new players. If a new player falls for this and cant realize the beauty of a system that allows this form of emergent play, then UO probably isn't for them anyway. If a vet falls for this, its an opportunity to recapture some of the emotion and feelings that have cause so many of us to love this game for so long.

Also, I would have to agree with others and say that this is certainly a sandbox game, by every definition of the word. You play the role you want, aren't pushed towards specific goals, and have the opportunity to customize/explore/interact with the world around you.

 

[Earendur]

I think it's conducive to a thriving community because it helps separate and remove those players who believe they are entitled to protection from their own carelessness.

I think it's conducive to a thriving community because it FORCES player driven solutions.

I think it is conducive to a thriving community because a thriving community NEEDS bad guys, people to hate, people to watch out for, and people to rally behind.

I think it is conducive to a thriving community because it encourages player conflict.

A thriving community is not a bunch of people who do nothing but cooperate and get along. That is boring and stagnant. A thriving community is a cacophony of laughter and tears, cheers of victory and wails of defeat, words of wisdom, support, helpfulness, mockery, anger and hate. It is dynamic, not one sided.

UOF is a fairly 'hard core' ruleset. Only a few artificial limitations on player actions exist. That principle is pretty important to most people who play here.

Also, I do not lack empathy.

Your first four points I personally feel are invalid as they can and are done with PvP/Blue Griefing/Thieving. I agree it is a dynamic, and takes all kinds. This isn't playing the game, it is scamming. And they are also not conducive when it is done through scamming.

"UOF is a fairly 'hard core' ruleset. Only a few artificial limitations on player actions exist. That principle is pretty important to most people who play here. "

Only a few artificial limitations.........I am not sure which servers you have played on, but this is literally the exact same as every other PvP server at its core. "No speedhacking, don't be racist. Don't block with boxes"

So I ask for the final time, what is conducive, not what doesn't negatively effect, a thriving community.

"I think this would be a big deal if the trade system was inherently bad/unsecured, or if somebody was talking advantage of an exploit or bug. The truth of the matter is, the trade system is very secure and requires both parties to confirm the deal in question. The tools are in place for people to make safe and clear trades. If a player fails to do their due diligence, or puts their trust in the word of another player, then the fault can only lie with them."

I agree, I am not sure how much you read through the topic but this was more / became about this player in particular being punished.

"Also, I would have to agree with others and say that this is certainly a sandbox game, by every definition of the word."

SimCity is a sandbox game. Sandbox game means LITERALLY....like a sandbox you play in. It's a blank canvas and you do whatever you want. That is why games like Skyrim and Dark Souls are called open-world or open-end, not sandbox. Just because there aren't many 'artificial' rules / limitations doesn't make it a sandbox game. Having more than 3 choices does not make it a sandbox game. Player created content (I.E. griefing, thieving) does not make it a sandbox game. If this game dropped you in the desert, and players HAD to build their own cities, their own vendors, their own banks...Then it would be sandbox. Ultima Online is an Open World MMORPG with more options than most, not a sandbox game.

 

[Guttersnipe]

This is a sandbox game, and as you have hopefully learned, sometimes people pee in it.

 

[Bill Bryson]

I agree, I am not sure how much you read through the topic but this was more / became about this player in particular being punished.

The point of the previous post was to share why I felt the player shouldn't be punished, based on the fact that no game mechanic is being exploited. The trickster is simply using timing, perception and a bit of crafty acting to pull this off.

The house owner and the trickster meet to trade a house. The home owner selects to transfer the house, and clicks on the trickster. The trickster is then presented with a house transfer confirmation gump, while the home owner is told the other player is awaiting verification. No trade window appears during this time. The trickster then holds the house transfer confirmation gump, staling for time. While he holds it, no trade window appears, and he begins his act of complaining about lag. Next, he claims to have received the house and says he will trade it back. Just as he says this, he accepts the transfer confirmation gump, which causes the trade window to appear. This makes it seem like the trickster has initiated the house transfer, and the previous one bugged/glitched/lagged. This, combined with the tricksters acting, causes the house owner to think a bug has happened and hastily accept the trade, thinking he is getting his house back.


I will have to agree to disagree with you about sandbox and what it means in a game.

 

[Earendur]

I understand that you are trying to make scamming seem like an art form, but to me it isn't. It's scamming. No matter how it was done, it was excessive scamming. You and I are allowed our own opinions and I do see it from your point of view, I just don't agree.

 

[Karl Sagan]

I'm agreeing to disagree glws

 

[SidX]

How does nobody ever remember the names of people who scam them?

It seems each time I read a post about someone being scammed, they forget who did it. That's the most important part!

Public shame and humiliation is a great help!

 

[MANKRIK]

As long as it's not exploiting bugs I don't see a problem with scamming, in fact I think the "no excessive scamming" rule is a bit stupid. You need a certain amount of dickheads on a server otherwise it'll just become like Planet Fitness - a place full of noobs endlessly grinding away with no real challenge. I don't like seeing new players scammed, but at the same time people coddle newbies way too much. Yes, there are a lot of game mechanics to learn, but if you understand the basic premise of "anything can happen" then you should be cautious and question what's going on. Most of these scams are not even UO specific, but more general awareness (would you go out to the middle of nowhere to sell your house to a jittery naked man?) If you've played long enough to grind out a few hundred thousand gold for a house then you would have already seen some of the stuff that goes on and would know to be cautious. If not then you will learn after one experience.

 

[Macunzo]

(would you go out to the middle of nowhere to sell your house to a jittery naked man?)

I fear a DOH- moment coming up, but how do you actually sell a house somewhat safely?

I have transferred houses between my accounts to check the mechanics, but you need to receive an unblessed check, don't you? From that naked guy 1 pace away?

 

[Kael]

Your first four points I personally feel are invalid as they can and are done with PvP/Blue Griefing/Thieving. I agree it is a dynamic, and takes all kinds. This isn't playing the game, it is scamming. And they are also not conducive when it is done through scamming.

"UOF is a fairly 'hard core' ruleset. Only a few artificial limitations on player actions exist. That principle is pretty important to most people who play here. "

Only a few artificial limitations.........I am not sure which servers you have played on, but this is literally the exact same as every other PvP server at its core. "No speedhacking, don't be racist. Don't block with boxes"

So I ask for the final time, what is conducive, not what doesn't negatively effect, a thriving community.

"I think this would be a big deal if the trade system was inherently bad/unsecured, or if somebody was talking advantage of an exploit or bug. The truth of the matter is, the trade system is very secure and requires both parties to confirm the deal in question. The tools are in place for people to make safe and clear trades. If a player fails to do their due diligence, or puts their trust in the word of another player, then the fault can only lie with them."

I agree, I am not sure how much you read through the topic but this was more / became about this player in particular being punished.

"Also, I would have to agree with others and say that this is certainly a sandbox game, by every definition of the word."

SimCity is a sandbox game. Sandbox game means LITERALLY....like a sandbox you play in. It's a blank canvas and you do whatever you want. That is why games like Skyrim and Dark Souls are called open-world or open-end, not sandbox. Just because there aren't many 'artificial' rules / limitations doesn't make it a sandbox game. Having more than 3 choices does not make it a sandbox game. Player created content (I.E. griefing, thieving) does not make it a sandbox game. If this game dropped you in the desert, and players HAD to build their own cities, their own vendors, their own banks...Then it would be sandbox. Ultima Online is an Open World MMORPG with more options than most, not a sandbox game.

Definition - What does Sandbox mean?
A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks. Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels, a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish.

A sandbox game is also known as an open-world or free-roaming game.

 

[thestand]

I fear a DOH- moment coming up, but how do you actually sell a house somewhat safely?

I have transferred houses between my accounts to check the mechanics, but you need to receive an unblessed check, don't you? From that naked guy 1 pace away?

The checks are BLESSED... Doh..

 

[thestand]

.

 

[Macunzo]

The checks are BLESSED... Doh..

DOH indeed...

 

[SpaceFolding]

While I understand both sides of this debate of morality, I don't think exploits and player scamming through the use of bait & switch or "server lag" is part of the sandbox MMO aspect.

 

[Malkraven]

its a sandbox people should be able to do w/e they want within reason if its not fucking with anyones RL who cares its a game get over it....