What's the Point?

[poogoblin]

^^ what he said. Plus I knew that when I used it once at an idoc, I would see any hiders and not have to worry about missing people I need to kill.

You can do this with 0 tracking if they are on the same screen as you. The minute you're tracked the flashing arrow doesn't leave your head...please teach me how to walk away from a guy on a mount, while I have a flashing arrow over my head

 

[poogoblin]

Although tracking was literally just updated, even before that it was still a huge jump from 0 to GM. Going from a 25% chance to see within 8 tiles to a 100% chance to see within 30+tiles is a big jump. And now it's even bigger (haven't tested quite how big yet, but I know I'm seeing people in our other levels of the dungeon frequently.)

From reading the updates it also sounds like you can now track RDA's, which is awesome.

Long story short, it's obvious you don't and never have had a tracking character.

My beef is with less than GM tracking, not GM tracking. I don't have a GM tracker, I don't need one, I have a character with 50 tracking and it's ridiculous. There should be some sort of skill check against hide or stealth or a combo of both.

 

[halygon]

You can do this with 0 tracking if they are on the same screen as you. The minute you're tracked the flashing arrow doesn't leave your head...please teach me how to walk away from a guy on a mount, while I have a flashing arrow over my head

Try using spawn.
If it seems they've tracked ya, mount your ethy and high tail it
Fight back(depends on ya template)
Teleport around
Steal their regs if they are a Mage
Steal their weapon if you can disarm
Go into a house you are friended to

It's all situational, so you have to know your stuff.

 

[Illkill]

Try using spawn.
If it seems they've tracked ya, mount your ethy and high tail it
Fight back(depends on ya template)
Teleport around
Steal their regs if they are a Mage
Steal their weapon if you can disarm
Go into a house you are friended to

It's all situational, so you have to know your stuff.

Templates? Where can i get one.

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[wil3ur]

I still can't joint the thieves guild, but I stole an exceptional balron damnation bow off a guys beetle and about 900 gold.

 

[Illkill]

What else would be cool is a special ability thiefs can get that allows them to speed hack targets abilities and speed up or slow them down. Copy cat movements and even shadow melding abilities.

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[FingersFinn]

Begging and Thievery seem to be fairly pointless skills. No NPC's have anything to steal, they have no gold to beg. Even at GM level I can't get a penny. I know eventually I'll be able to join the thieves guild and steal from players, but it seems crappy for a week I have a character that makes no money whatsoever. You don't even get the random fish cakes and bed rolls in here begging. Is there something that happens with that skill after 7 days as well that makes begging worthwhile, or is it merely to have an awesome title?

Begging I don't really have input in. Never had a beggar.

Thievery pointless though? I have to concur with other folks here that it requires patience, skill and some ingenuity. I have.. certain associates.. that make bank with stealing. Other times are not so lucrative.

There's a lot of fun to be had in playing the class if you put some time into it. However it's vastly different than your conventional farmer, whether it's a crafter or pvmer. You farm people instead

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[wil3ur]

I have to concur with other folks here that it requires patience,

Yeah, that's the point though... I gotta wait 7 days to steal from people.

 

[FingersFinn]

Yeah, that's the point though... I gotta wait 7 days to steal from people.

So in waiting my suggestion would be skill up, train up (practice stealing from mobs-a friend stole a tamer ss from a lich), and bide your time until the floodgates open

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[wil3ur]

So in waiting my suggestion would be skill up, train up (practice stealing from mobs-a friend stole a tamer ss from a lich), and bide your time until the floodgates open

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Well So far I am:

GM Begging
GM Hiding
GM Snooping
GM Stealing
GM Stealth
90.6 Tracking
69.2 Detecting Hidden

Too bad begging doesn't do anything. Not a single NPC gives money ever. Skill should be removed if it doesn't do anything, or have some affect (possibly on luck?) or something. The title is still cool though.

 

[FingersFinn]

Well So far I am:

GM Begging
GM Hiding
GM Snooping
GM Stealing
GM Stealth
90.6 Tracking
69.2 Detecting Hidden

Too bad begging doesn't do anything. Not a single NPC gives money ever. Skill should be removed if it doesn't do anything, or have some affect (possibly on luck?) or something. The title is still cool though.

Just a couple of things to note:

GM stealth only if you plan to wear a little bit of armor (it's not much without breaking stealth). 80 is fine if you plan on going without armor. I'd probably get rid of begging for something useful. 100 points is 100 points and depending on what you want to do there are many places to put them. Tracking and detect hidden are good for lots of applications. I have heard, however, that even at 50 tracking it's more than adequate for tracking applications in most circumstances. I normally take at least some magery on a character but recalls can be done through charged runebooks I suppose. It might be a pain but you may want to think about switching out begging for lockpicking. Dungeon chests are something to go after along with stalking others. Your only weakness is..well.. you are completely defenseless against everyone. Hiding and smart thievery are going to be your best offense and defense. I personally like the way my thief is set up:

GM hiding/snooping/stealing/wrestling
80 stealth/arms lore/magery
60 meditation

You could work on rearranging some things or try out what you've got. By the sounds of it though, you seem a little unhappy with the begging.

 

[wil3ur]

Just a couple of things to note:

GM stealth only if you plan to wear a little bit of armor (it's not much without breaking stealth). 80 is fine if you plan on going without armor. I'd probably get rid of begging for something useful. 100 points is 100 points and depending on what you want to do there are many places to put them. Tracking and detect hidden are good for lots of applications. I have heard, however, that even at 50 tracking it's more than adequate for tracking applications in most circumstances. I normally take at least some magery on a character but recalls can be done through charged runebooks I suppose. It might be a pain but you may want to think about switching out begging for lockpicking. Dungeon chests are something to go after along with stalking others. Your only weakness is..well.. you are completely defenseless against everyone. Hiding and smart thievery are going to be your best offense and defense. I personally like the way my thief is set up:

GM hiding/snooping/stealing/wrestling
80 stealth/arms lore/magery
60 meditation

You could work on rearranging some things or try out what you've got. By the sounds of it though, you seem a little unhappy with the begging.

Disappointed with begging but do love the title.

 

[wil3ur]

...So I hadn't stolen anything and was blue, but got killed in town. I thought you just couldn't give murder counts, guards won't help you either?

 

[FingersFinn]

...So I hadn't stolen anything and was blue, but got killed in town. I thought you just couldn't give murder counts, guards won't help you either?

Your circumstances are vague. We're you trying to steal something and become grey? How did you get killed?

And yes, being in the in-game thieves guild does not allow you to give counts. However, if you are "innocent" (meaning blue) and not doing anything to have made you go grey, guards should respond when called. As far as your being killed all I can think of is you were noticed trying to steal and got axed. If you were blue, and just standing there, someone may have just outright attacked you and pretty much killed you with little effort (remember what I was saying about your having zero defenses with your template). I've been attacked just outside of town simply out of suspicion of being a thief because I popped out of hiding to say hello to someone; I wasn't even planning on doing anything

Also remember that you cannot kill another player without being suspended from the thieves guild. This wears off when your count(s) do I believe. Although there would be no way for you to really be able to kill someone. As someone had noted previously your career will be all about remaining undetected, running like hell when caught (good luck without a mount), and using your surroundings to your advantage.

Lastly, tracking is broken. Even at 0.0 (last I knew unless things changed very recently) someone can track you within the same screen. My thief has a natural (untrained at all) 15.5 tracking and can track to outside of the screen, although success rate seems about 25-30% (at least to me). Tracking 0 can trump GM hiding. Good times.

 

[halygon]

...So I hadn't stolen anything and was blue, but got killed in town. I thought you just couldn't give murder counts, guards won't help you either?

You were probably perma grey - this means that you cannot call guards either.

 

[wil3ur]

You were probably perma grey - this means that you cannot call guards either.

Is there a way to check this? I use razor and the window showed blue at the time. It shows me as having no title good or bad, so I can't really judge.

 

[halygon]

Perma grey is where you have committed an act (or attempted to) of stealing but either wore off the greyness or was fully successful and did not get caught so you stayed blue. In either case, you are called perma grey because you are freely attackable by anyone and since you are actually grey (even though you show blue to everyone, including yourself), you cannot call guards.

 

[SidX]

Is there a way to check this? I use razor and the window showed blue at the time. It shows me as having no title good or bad, so I can't really judge.

If you steal from another player, you become permagray. This is true in every case, whether you are guard whacked or not. It's a confusing concept but I'll try to explain from my experience on a thief.

Basically how it works is this..

Example: you use a thief to steal a skill scroll from Player A at the Brit Bank... You are NOT guard whacked and you successfully steal the scroll. Great, in your mind you got away with it! But now, what happens is that Player A will see you as gray, even though you and everyone else sees your character as blue. This is because you went criminal against Player A and they now have a chance to get revenge. You will always and forever appear gray to Player A until you are killed by any player. If you get guard whacked you will still be gray to Player A until you get killed by another player, period. A player must kill you to exit permagray status.

The other side to it is that while Player A sees you as gray, and other players see you as blue, you are freely attackable by ANYONE. So, basically, say a second player-- Player B-- saw that you stole from Player A... he witnessed everything. Even though you appear blue to Player B, he may still attack you and you will become insta-gray to him now as well. This is a penalty of having witnesses to the crime, and is just the price of doing business as a thief.

This process, in short, is called being "permagray" since you are technically running around with permanent criminal status, even if you appear blue to yourself and other players. That is why you may feel like you should have been able to call guards, but it wasn't working-- someone knew you were permagray and attacked you. To get out of permagray status, again, just get killed by another player. Now guards will work for you until you become permagray again.

Hope that makes sense!

P.S. on the OP's post, Stealing is hugely profitable. I have been using my thief as my main source of income for months. If you know where to go and what to look for, and have a knack for the macros to use, you can easily make tons of money being a thief.

Things that can help are little tricks, like for example knowing that while Blessed items aren't stealable, if they are INSIDE of a bag then you can steal the bag.. when you do this, you steal the bag and all contents inside. But it still has to follow the 10-stone rule. Some people keep pretty expensive Blessed items (dono, ethys, runebook sets, etc.) in bags so if you look for this and capitalize on it, you can make a ton. The best part of this trick is that if you are successful in the steal, and you are guard whacked or killed, you KEEP the blessed items. Since you cannot lose blessed items upon death in any case, you are guaranteed to keep any blessed item you steal that was in a bag.

 

[wil3ur]

Sweet, as I was the OP this was very helpful on both accounts.

 

[FingersFinn]

Keep in mind too that one of the best insurance policies is insta-hiding. I know there are folks out there that think this is deplorable and broken. In reality most thieves are squishy beyond belief and can be brought down easily. Especially running the standard no armor and if your template has no res spells it's nighty night fast. Fire up steal. Wait until skill timer resets. Steal then immediately hide. Walk away. Get on your ethy. Bolt. Good times.

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