Vendors need a fee reduction - will help the shard

[Morgan]

If they moved the fees to commission I for one would drop my vendors. This would not be cost effective to the vendor. As it sits right now I am betting on selling what i have placed there before the charge. Pretty much the only way to come out with a fair profit.

 

[The End]

I think I’m the long run you would enjoy a on sale% taken out more than a hoping it sells before your charged and I think you would see far more profit since sometimes your stuff can sit days before being sold or it could sit hours. That way it could sit months and be there every time a person goes looking instead of carrying less stock on the vendor to avoid large daily fees

 

[Morgan]

I dont think you have seen my vendors.
My stuff doesnt sit there.
My vendors are stocked pretty full.
So as a result I can fill them multiple times a day

 

[Morgan]

Fyi,
Unless you have multiple vendors
As in about 50+ you really dont know what kind of profit I would be giving up going the sale % taken.

 

[The End]

Except your assuming the amount taken is going to be so dramatic that it will be extremely negative?

 

[The End]

If your running a vendor with 100 items prices at 1000g and there was a 10%(which is more than it probably would even be suggested) you lose 100 gold per item so outta 100 items sold at 1,000 you would only lose 10k no matter how long it took for that vendor to empty out. So currently how much would a 100 item vendor loaded with items priced at 1,000 gold cost per day right now? Prolly what 1-2k a day I don’t remember the difference but I know loaded up vendors you lose your ass unless the product moves so you end up keeping your vendors stocked lighter to avoid the higher cost of having it fully stocked.

 

[The End]

So if you who runs 50 vendors and knows it all keeps restocking them keeping 100 items on them at all times but move only 20 items a day and have 80 items sitting idly just burning up gold you really think that’s better? And that’s just for cheap shit. Doesn’t pricing something higher value make the vendor cost go up drastically. I don’t remember anymore because again. I gave up vendors because discord is free and easy

 

[Morgan]

as a matter of fact smart ass "Who Doesn't Run Vendors ANYMORE"
Why do you even care about this thread?
But I will explain it to you
1) I stock a vendor with product and the cost per day is lets say 5000k
Now if I sell all that before the day is up (As for ME that normally is easy)
I don't have to pay the 5000k for the day just the 60gp for the vendor
Now if I was to fill that vendor lets say 3 times throughout the day
Now my total is 15k I don't have to pay. This is just 1 of the 56 vendors
I have ...
2) I also have a private sale vendor tucked away inside the cellar of my Vendor House
now I do large orders there. Example
I bag lets say a butler refill thats 300 kegs ... cost of about 1.1Mil
I place a book on the vendor at that cost they buy it
I release the bags of kegs , they safely gate them to their house.

Now you tell me do you really think I would want to be taxed on any of that
if that was the case I would stop being a Crafter/Vendor and make all
of you make your own crap... Now lets see how long people will play ?

So when you Start to become a vendor on a large scale then you can
come to me and have an opinion.

 

[cups]

The whole point of this thread was to highlight the importance of having a healthy population of player vendors on the server. There’s a lot of “ghost” vendors on the server and lots of people who gave up on running them. This thread was to give incentives to people to run vendors because its good for the server. Instead, we have people who don’t play and don’t run vendors saying we need fees or we need to tax every item. What’s your motivation? Just have to put your two cents out about every topic? Why? Don’t you guys see the downside to having no player vendors and everyone subscribing to the mentality that they’ll just use discord instead? I think that’s a terrible idea. Player vendors have been a key part of this game. Watching them slowly disappear until you can’t find basic things like full spell books is bad. I just don’t get why removing or greatly lessening vendor fees is so important to people like The End. I don’t agree that vendor fees are a good way to take gold out of the economy. A month long raffle will remove more gold out of the economy than three years of vendor fees. Instead of arguing for the sake of arguing think about what’s best for the server.

 

[Silentnox]

I think reducing the fee would make more trash vendors not less. Maybe make them more like houses where they fall if you dont visit them. or make the fee time based and you have to pay at the vendor rather than price based.

 

[Shane]

This is a lot to catch up on, but what if we made it something like if you keep up with your vendor and its active the fees are LOWER, however if you don't mess with your vendor a lot it starts using up more gold?
So those who have active vendors and are actively using their vendors, selling items, adding new items etc get a much lower rate than those who just throw items on and leave it for a long time?

Also i'd be interested to see what someone like Skala pays on her vendors in a month VS what she makes.

 

[The End]

Kinda like a stagnant vendor tax.

 

[lollo]

looks like skala is the only person on the shard who is actually making gold with vendors

 

[Cerebellum]

This is a lot to catch up on, but what if we made it something like if you keep up with your vendor and its active the fees are LOWER, however if you don't mess with your vendor a lot it starts using up more gold?
So those who have active vendors and are actively using their vendors, selling items, adding new items etc get a much lower rate than those who just throw items on and leave it for a long time?

Also i'd be interested to see what someone like Skala pays on her vendors in a month VS what she makes.

Why does it need to be so complex? What is the actual goal? This idea literally only benefits those who already work hard (probably harder than they should) on maintaining a vendor. It doesn't encourage more to participate.

Also, Skala shouldn't even be considered in this equation. She is clearly an outlier. Designing a system using her experience as a base is ludicrous.

It's great to hear that she's successful, and we all know her shop. However, it's VERY obvious that there is an overall problem. If we consider Skala's experience as "the way vendor houses work" then she'll continue to be the only continuously successful vendor house on the shard. I'm certain that this sounds great to her, but to the rest of the player base, I'm doubtful. Unfortunately we don't have actual statistical data that supports REAL playtime by the average UOF player (not just time logged in).

The existing system doesn't work for UO in 2019. It currently only benefits those people who can leave a client gating 24 hours a day, or who have established themselves since shard opening. Furthermore, the economy is at a point where supply exponentially exceeds demand which affects the viability of new vendors. Buy / Sell Discord isn't helping either.

Without a change to the vendor system, as well as some way to sink resources and items, the need for farming goes away further pushing the economy to the MOTM / Champ spawn lottery get rich or die trying state it's currently headed to.

We all need to decide if we care more about our own individual wealth, or the economic health of the place we all love to play this silly game. We need to be focused on drawing new players and organically growing what our existing player base does while they play.

 

[batman]

Why does it need to be so complex? What is the actual goal? This idea literally only benefits those who already work hard (probably harder than they should) on maintaining a vendor. It doesn't encourage more to participate.

Also, Skala shouldn't even be considered in this equation. She is clearly an outlier. Designing a system using her experience as a base is ludicrous.

It's great to hear that she's successful, and we all know her shop. However, it's VERY obvious that there is an overall problem. If we consider Skala's experience as "the way vendor houses work" then she'll continue to be the only continuously successful vendor house on the shard. I'm certain that this sounds great to her, but to the rest of the player base, I'm doubtful. Unfortunately we don't have actual statistical data that supports REAL playtime by the average UOF player (not just time logged in).

The existing system doesn't work for UO in 2019. It currently only benefits those people who can leave a client gating 24 hours a day, or who have established themselves since shard opening. Furthermore, the economy is at a point where supply exponentially exceeds demand which affects the viability of new vendors. Buy / Sell http://discord.uoforever.com isn't helping either.

Without a change to the vendor system, as well as some way to sink resources and items, the need for farming goes away further pushing the economy to the MOTM / Champ spawn lottery get rich or die trying state it's currently headed to.

We all need to decide if we care more about our own individual wealth, or the economic health of the place we all love to play this silly game. We need to be focused on drawing new players and organically growing what our existing player base does while they play.

You have to understand theres 10 people you dont go against now that theres 50 people playing.. the rules will benefit there friends who have been here the longest and is friends with staff etc..theres no need to argue with her or shane or others that wont be mentioned. .

 

[Cerebellum]

You have to understand theres 10 people you dont go against now that theres 50 people playing.. the rules will benefit there friends who have been here the longest and is friends with staff etc..theres no need to argue with her or shane or others that wont be mentioned. .

That's a little extreme. I don't think Skala is being benefited unfairly at all. My point is we can't consider her experience even REMOTELY close to what's common. So to base a change assuming her experience can be achieved by anyone "with a little elbow grease" is bad.

I think the overall concern here is that the powers that be have no idea what our true problems are.

We've spent an endless amount of time catering and designing to 1% of the player base. On our current trajectory, we'll only end up having 1% left. We really need to evaluate the problem(s), decide what outcome(s) we want, prioritize them, and set a direction.

Once we put the state of our community ahead of the state of our bank balances, or pixel accumulations, UOF will thrive.

 

[batman]

I don't think Skala is being benefited unfairly at all.

We've spent an endless amount of time catering and designing to 1% of the player base

Wth am I reading here??
Please read this 2 more times quietly to yourself and please feel free to respond!!

 

[Cerebellum]

Wth am I reading here??
Please read this 2 more times quietly to yourself and please feel free to respond!!

Sorry I see why that would appear contradictory.

I don't think Skala is being benefited unfairly at all.

This is in regards specifically to the vendor system. It hasn't changed in 20 years, while yes, she takes advantage of it to its fullest, it's not like it was designed specifically for her or her playstyle.

We've spent an endless amount of time catering and designing to 1% of the player base

This is the server as a whole and a specific reason why we shouldn't add/change another system that only benefits the 1%


Does that make sense?

 

[Cerebellum]

Skala is a great lady..talked to her on a daily a while back ago when we lived next door to her..she deserves everything she gets and is a very hard worker!! Well shes a good macrorer!!


This is yet another benefit for her from her mate shane!! That's y I say theres 10 friends and staff who matter..if your not in the loop u r irrelevant going on a year now..I jumped on a few random times last week to see if theres any difference!! Ran thru all the towns made it through 4 dungeons! And went around looking for pvp, t hunters etc , and nothing!! If theres no one to buy your stuff what does it matter what you get charged for a stagnant vendor??

I hear you about the population. I tend not to get involved in the special treatment discussion. I love UOF but I'm not very optimistic on it's outlook these days.

I won't play anywhere else, so if UOF dies, I'll be done with UO. It's disheartening.

 

[Silentnox]

I have been playing uof for 7 months started from scratch and run vendors as my primary source of gold.

I have 11 vendors (and slowly adding more)
my daily vendor fees are 25-30k a day
Selling mostly crafted items
I dont gate from WBB i have no interest in that play style.

I think the "problem" with vendors and why we see so many dead vendors is burn out not vendor fees. Running vendors is literally a full time job. I spend an hour a day promoting and probably another hour a day checking/restocking split over 3 times a day. Thats two hours a day before even starting to get things to put on the vendors. I keep 15m+ of inventory in stock off the vendor and rarely take a day off because the second someone comes and cant find something you lose them as a customer. It has taken a REALLY long time to establish my little vendor shop and get ppl to keep a rune. Often I reach out to people WTB on buy/sell only to find out the last time we spoke was me telling them that they could find what they were looking for two weeks ago was also on my vendor. The start up cost for having full vendors just to impress people when starting a vendor shop is immense.

For those that dont know vendor pricing is 60gp + 600gp per 100k of items for sale. I usually use dono as a way to talk about this. You can sell dono for 180k in a second on buy sell. But you want 200k. Putting 10k dono on a vendor for a total of 2m will cost you 12k a day in fees. That means you have 17 days to sell that dono at 200k a pop before you should have just sold it for 180k on buy sell. That seems reasonable to me.

I suspect that the reason people get slaughtered by fees when they drop 3 rares from the last invasion on a vendor is that they havent taken the time and money to establish a vendor and get traffic to it. And really whats the harm in advertising it on buy/sell while its on a vendor? Or using one of hte methods skala described to circumvent the fees?

Id love to hear from saige, the doll house and the person running the vendor house at the south side of yew bank weigh in on the subject. But I would rather see innovation to vendors in the form of something new like a condensed shopping area (like vendor event but the houses were set up poorly to actually sell with vendors), having inactive vendors go poof, vendors/npcs that buy players instead of selling to them, help gating to houses or promoting vendors in game etc.

I have a feeling that if you simply lower the fees they will turn into additional storage and instead of sifting through empty vendors in yew we will be sifting through vendors full of random and poorly priced things.

And whats with all the people crying for change. Like vendor pricing is going to make or break the shard. Its been this way for 20 years lets make thoughtful incremental changes to the game not wide sweeping ones that could potentially affect balance in ways people dont understand. There is literally a form post or discussion about changing every aspect of this game at any given time why does everyone want to change a game we love so much.