Suggesting using Test Server, making Event Schedule.

Jibreel_kills

Jibreel_kills

Master
I feel that expressing our feelings on ways to improve (maybe). So ill start with a suggestion lets add a Event Schedule. Reason I say that is so we, and you do not get ahead of ourselves. There are a few reasons why I am saying this. Many of you feel this event was amazing well Great! It was amazing to just have "an Event". I am not here to scold anything but last few Events have been rushed, and not properly tested. I love the idea @Adam had for the Halloween event, there were some issues, and there have been issues with this event too. I think use of the test server is a must for these situations, and random invasions would have been perfect practice for the type of event we had within the last few weeks. For the change up of monsters, etc. This is @drinn 's first event and I feel that there could have been so much more to it. @Shane ask the community, and your donating players that support the server to test things, to prevent exploits, loopholes, and many faults that these events will run into. Not only does my thoughts imply about events, I think with most changes to the server they should be announced and dealt with as a whole. Thanks Shane and Drinn, and the many staff that helped with the event, and hopefully we could learn to be a team.

Making this thread actually took longer then putting these creatures together. I think they would have been perfect for this event!

 
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B

bane

Master
not sure what happened to the original thread. seems like it disappeared with no reason given. Since this is obviously not a troll thread and is constructive not sure why that was necessary
 
Bromista

Bromista

Grandmaster
And again, back in the day staff made use of the test server and dedicated players to make adjustments to both PvP mechanics and champ spawns. I think that even if it's a handful of hand-picked vets, or even just a global message put on blast for everyone to see "Hey come help us test out the new invasion on the test server", it would go a long way for helping make sure there are no event-breaking bugs or exploits.

QA/QC has got to be difficult on a free shard because there's not a huge dev team like there was back in the day on the production version of this game. Please utilize the player base! Things get overlooked, we get that. It's going to happen. But I think we can do more to get in front of these things and that will improve overall player satisfaction.

Less time spent chasing down issues as events are occurring or stripping players of points for abusing exploits that should have been easily caught = more fun for everyone. Players and staff alike.
 
Jibreel_kills

Jibreel_kills

Master
Bromista said:
And again, back in the day staff made use of the test server and dedicated players to make adjustments to both PvP mechanics and champ spawns. I think that even if it's a handful of hand-picked vets, or even just a global message put on blast for everyone to see "Hey come help us test out the new invasion on the test server", it would go a long way for helping make sure there are no event-breaking bugs or exploits.

QA/QC has got to be difficult on a free shard because there's not a huge dev team like there was back in the day on the production version of this game. Please utilize the player base! Things get overlooked, we get that. It's going to happen. But I think we can do more to get in front of these things and that will improve overall player satisfaction.

Less time spent chasing down issues as events are occurring or stripping players of points for abusing exploits that should have been easily caught = more fun for everyone. Players and staff alike.
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Agreed! Thanks Bromista
 
Arch Enemy

Arch Enemy

Grandmaster
I haven't participated in any invasions in the past, so I don't know what flaws, if any, those had. I haven't participated much in this event either, but I am vaguely aware of the shenanigans that have been happening. I think the main problem was simply the oversight of how boats would be used in this event, which should have been realized before the event began, given the unique layout of Vesper.

If staff wants to run the invasions on a test server and get player feedback, I say go ahead, as long as it's freely available for everyone to log on and test and not only a select group of people. Personally I don't think it should be necessary as I believe the staffers should be thoroughly testing their own events among the other staff members before they are ran, but I don't have a problem with them asking for player feedback on the test server.

My only real gripe among these sorts of events is that the top scorers are determined by who has the most free time on their hands. People say "Oh, the top scorer is a meta mage/meta dexer. Look how OP they are.", when anyone who could play day and night non-stop will have one of the top scores no matter what template they are playing. And as someone else pointed out before, the prizes and the scores needed for those prizes haven't even been revealed to us, so we have absolutely no idea of any goals we should be striving for in terms of score because we have no idea what there is for rewards and how much they cost. And instead they are probably going to determine the cost of the prizes by the top scorers, which sets the curve for the rest of us.
 
Bromista

Bromista

Grandmaster
Yeah when doing a long event like this it's always a bit discouraging to know you are up against people who are going to put their lives on hold for it. But such is life I guess.

Staff does determine the cutoff for each reward based on the final score and they have not been shy about that in the past. It makes total sense if you don't want a particular item to be overabundant.

And not a damn thing anybody can do about players griping about the event not catering to their playstyle. That goes for almost everything...events or otherwise. Staff does a good job of providing something for everyone so if this event isn't for you maybe the next one will be.

Anywho can't please everyone all you can do is just test test test to give things the best chance to go smoothly. The more bodies the merrier!
 
Uofreakkk

Uofreakkk

Adept
I think events like vesper should be done in dungeons. There are plenty of non used dungeons that can be used outside of just the normal ones in different maps. t2a for example would have been a great place to have this event because no one owns a house but I guess you could have still used boats.

Doom Dungeon for example

doom.gif


Would be a perfect place for an event where there is no housing and you can't lure mobs outside the dungeon to the water.


Back to the topic at hand though I do agree the test center should be used for events prior to them coming out but maybe only a select few to test it so everyone doesn't run over to the test center and kill the population on the main server during testing phases.
 
Jibreel_kills

Jibreel_kills

Master
Uofreakkk said:
I think events like vesper should be done in dungeons. There are plenty of non used dungeons that can be used outside of just the normal ones in different maps. t2a for example would have been a great place to have this event because no one owns a house but I guess you could have still used boats.

Doom Dungeon for example

doom.gif


Would be a perfect place for an event where there is no housing and you can't lure mobs outside the dungeon to the water.


Back to the topic at hand though I do agree the test center should be used for events prior to them coming out but maybe only a select few to test it so everyone doesn't run over to the test center and kill the population on the main server during testing phases.
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Yah I think dungeon would have made it fun! Pirates at sea Killing people, reds vs blues 8) I believe they plan on Using that dungeon (Doom) after expansion! btw :)
 
B

bane

Master
Arch Enemy said:
I haven't participated in any invasions in the past, so I don't know what flaws, if any, those had. I haven't participated much in this event either, but I am vaguely aware of the shenanigans that have been happening. I think the main problem was simply the oversight of how boats would be used in this event, which should have been realized before the event began, given the unique layout of Vesper.

If staff wants to run the invasions on a test server and get player feedback, I say go ahead, as long as it's freely available for everyone to log on and test and not only a select group of people. Personally I don't think it should be necessary as I believe the staffers should be thoroughly testing their own events among the other staff members before they are ran, but I don't have a problem with them asking for player feedback on the test server.

My only real gripe among these sorts of events is that the top scorers are determined by who has the most free time on their hands. People say "Oh, the top scorer is a meta mage/meta dexer. Look how OP they are.", when anyone who could play day and night non-stop will have one of the top scores no matter what template they are playing. And as someone else pointed out before, the prizes and the scores needed for those prizes haven't even been revealed to us, so we have absolutely no idea of any goals we should be striving for in terms of score because we have no idea what there is for rewards and how much they cost. And instead they are probably going to determine the cost of the prizes by the top scorers, which sets the curve for the rest of us.
Click to expand...
As a programmer I can personally attest to the fact that we make really shitty testers. The best people to test code are those that are familiar with the underlying mechanics but have no knowledge of the programming behind it. if people are offering to test stuff for free I see no reason why staff would not take them up on it. At first it might be better to use a select group of players so they don't get buried in whine threads though.
 
Jibreel_kills

Jibreel_kills

Master
bane said:
As a programmer I can personally attest to the fact that we make really shitty testers. The best people to test code are those that are familiar with the underlying mechanics but have no knowledge of the programming behind it. if people are offering to test stuff for free I see no reason why staff would not take them up on it. At first it might be better to use a select group of players so they don't get buried in whine threads though.
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This is exactly where I am getting at with the test server! It would bring so much more success then failure. Some may like the faults because the staff may do (forgiveness handouts). Again this will take stress away from the WHOLE server, though coding etc still maybe frustrating to the staff. It will allow them to know when somethings ready to globalize!
 
Young Star

Young Star

Grandmaster
I think it is fine to use towns for invasions. That is kind of the point of an invasion, monsters are invading a place populated by people and they need help to fight them off. Having dungeon events would be pretty fun too on their own. You could also tie in using un-used dungeons with the invasions. The event starts with a big final boss opening a portal from their dungeon, ie Doom, then monsters spill out from it into a town. In order to gain access to the dungeon the people need to defend the town to beat the invasion back. Then to vanquish the boss players need to enter and clear the dungeon to summon the final boss at the end.
 
Swayze

Swayze

Grandmaster
Use towns for invasions = Red's cry
Use dungeons for invasions = Blue's cry

However, invasions are meant for blue PvMers. So therefore make them in towns. They had a unique element of turning guards off and a backstory on them which I thought was really cool, however red's didn't really do anything. A lot of the blues took that as an opportunity to go do other things.

In terms of things being rushed - for sure it did seem like things were rushed. From hiring an event manager, to having an event right away, spawn issues, etc. The staff are learning because this is the first time they have ran an event this long. You want people to test your ideas? Create an event on the main server and essentially have everyone test it out for you. I really don't mind this approach. People are going to *****, people are going to exploit but the end result doesn't really impact anyone in a negative way.

Like I mentioned in other threads - Adding more staff members seems to be a solution. Lots of pages (I was 11 in a queue this weekend), lots of questions about the event, etc. It will help make these things run a lot smoother (more eyes on exploiters, more answers to questions, etc).
 
Young Star

Young Star

Grandmaster
WHenever there are long running events there will eventually be some people that will figure out a scheme or loophole to exploit the most points or whatever possible from the system. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, it shows strategy. If it is something too exploitative for the staff they intervene and change the system to close the loophole. They should not point fingers or anything it is just how games like this work. A lot of fun in playing is trying to find the most efficient way to accomplish a goal. With a big event the staff need to be willing to adapt on the fly when they see something happening that they didn't intend because there almost always is something when you go from theory to practice.

I think the staff has done a pretty good job with this one learning and changing things, taking out mobs that were too OP and fixing other exploits. The main thing that I saw lacking that I mentioned in another thread was just being a littl more hands on with the actual story content and dropping in more bosses to fight. I think taking some from the OP's post with the different assortment of mobs would have been a good addition. After a couple days of the invasion we got some unique mobs with special abilities and new rare drops that changed every few days but then they stopped putting in any more new ones for several days in a row.
 
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Jibreel_kills

Jibreel_kills

Master
Young Star said:
WHenever there are long running events there will eventually be some people that will figure out a scheme or loophole to exploit the most points or whatever possible from the system. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, it shows strategy. If it is something too exploitative for the staff they intervene and change the system to close the loophole. They should not point fingers or anything it is just how games like this work. A lot of fun in playing is trying to find the most efficient way to accomplish a goal. With a big event the staff need to be willing to adapt on the fly when they see something happening that they didn't intend because there almost always is something when you go from theory to practice.

I think the staff has done a pretty good job with this one learning and changing things, taking out mobs that were too OP and fixing other exploits. The main thing that I saw lacking that I mentioned in another thread was just being a littl more hands on with the actual story content and dropping in more bosses to fight. I think taking some from the OP's post with the different assortment of mobs would have been a good addition. After a couple days of the invasion we got some unique mobs with special abilities and new rare drops that changed every few days but then they stopped putting in any more new ones for several days in a row.
Click to expand...

So let me get this right, you don't think testing is needed for these events. That people exploiting until caught are fine and just needs changed/fixed? Also for a 3 week event it could have been more creative with the mobs, especially with the change out. Testing these event before hand will prevent hiccups, not to mention when exploits in an event happens and puts one so far ahead of the pack and then is changed to where you cannot do it anymore deceives many others. When testing could have made this possible. Strategizing without loop hole/exploits is fine, using a boat was perfect until you see someone eq mobs and gain beyond points of the monsters HP due to the fact of regen of health and that EQ cannot be used to be a killing blow. That is not strategizing its an exploit. Now if this was done then delivered the killing blow, and no more Event score was givin more then the mobs HP then fine. Example; A troll has 395 life, max event score that can be gained from killing this mob is 395.
I initially meant that for the future testing/practicing makes perfect. No the staff, and we are not perfect. Coding cannot be to the T everytime, and will take some testing to get through.
 
Bromista

Bromista

Grandmaster
At least the score was converted to eventscore so that everyone kinda has the same shot at the same rewards regardless of ability to participate in a specific event. Or if there are problems with a specific event.

Good step forward IMO. Now if we can just get a working reward system :p
 
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