Static Timers on RDA/IDOC/Boss Spawns increases group PVP

[GluttonySDS]

bump for lack of valid arguments against this.

 

[Staff]

Why are IDOC timers made random but all the popular spawn/faction RDAs/arch daemon's set on a static timer? It's okay to allow organized guilds to time these spawns down to the second but not okay for organized guilds to do the same thing with IDOCs? Where is the logic here?

p.s.

I have no problem with static timers and feel like organized crews should be rewarded for their effort and organization but if it's not this way for IDOCs then why should it be this way for everything else?

Thoughts?

We try to be as populist as we can here. I put it to a vote and the general public appeared to like the randomized timer. Personally, I thought the vote would have turned out way different as there was such an uproar when it was changed from static to random. I don't know. Give me a really really good reason to change it.

I thought a static timer would be good and would revitalize the idoc scene. However, a bunch of people invaded the thread I made and said the IDOC scene is still thriving and there are guilds that still solely do it. I don't know...what is the general consensus here guys?

 

[Violence]

We try to be as populist as we can here. I put it to a vote and the general public appeared to like the randomized timer. Personally, I thought the vote would have turned out way different as there was such an uproar when it was changed from static to random. I don't know. Give me a really really good reason to change it.

I thought a static timer would be good and would revitalize the idoc scene. However, a bunch of people invaded the thread I made and said the IDOC scene is still thriving and there are guilds that still solely do it. I don't know...what is the general consensus here guys?

@Adam

I feel I have a better grasp of the IDOC system (both old and new) than the average player, and I'm very happy to hear the staff are willing to have a discussion in regards to how the system can be improved.

I suppose my main question is, what are the main design goals that UOF is trying to achieve in regards to IDOCs? Right now I feel like the current system rewards only few types of players/guilds, and completely alienates others. Surely there is some middle ground that can be reached?

 

[Malkraven]

We try to be as populist as we can here. I put it to a vote and the general public appeared to like the randomized timer. Personally, I thought the vote would have turned out way different as there was such an uproar when it was changed from static to random. I don't know. Give me a really really good reason to change it.

I thought a static timer would be good and would revitalize the idoc scene. However, a bunch of people invaded the thread I made and said the IDOC scene is still thriving and there are guilds that still solely do it. I don't know...what is the general consensus here guys?

i know u should probly go with what the masses want but do half the people voting even know what a idoc is or what they are voting on?

we had a full crew waiting to return just for idocs . its just not the same with random times . IMO Idocs should be what they have always been on other servers it should never have been changed in the first place

Sad day

 

[Violence]

But do half the people voting even know what a idoc is?

I think perhaps a better question is if the general public understands whether a static timer has any impact on their gameplay or not, or if they simply see the 10 hours mentioned in the previous poll and immediately dismiss it based on it being "too long".

It's nice to think that a random timer might equate to some sort form of spontaneity, but in my experience it's been to its detriment.

 

[GriefedYaBish]

Take old yeller(UOG) out back and do what needs to be done. If a few idoc and pvp changes were made,you would see a ton of players move to this server.

 

[Staff]

@Adam

I feel I have a better grasp of the IDOC system (both old and new) than the average player, and I'm very happy to hear the staff are willing to have a discussion in regards to how the system can be improved.

I suppose my main question is, what are the main design goals that UOF is trying to achieve in regards to IDOCs? Right now I feel like the current system rewards only few types of players/guilds, and completely alienates others. Surely there is some middle ground that can be reached?

Shane disliked all of the veteran guilds getting the IDOCs all of the time. So, he wanted to make it so you'd have to choose an IDOC and wait at it to get the loot. He wanted to spread out the IDOC wealth.

 

[Violence]

So how do we fit this in line with the PvM guilds who arguably get all the RDAs? Or any group of players who are dedicated to any one task?

It seems that the balance is an artificial one. The wealth is only distributed insofar that veteran IDOC guilds no longer wish to participate at all, which I'm sure wasn't the staff's intention. But I'd be interested to know what your perception of the IDOC scene is like now. Surely this type of system only consolidates the wealth more, but now to large guilds like EQMS, much like how it favoured 247 before them, and excludes smaller groups like mine from competing.

I strongly believe that if IDOC guilds are encouraged to form, it will distribute wealth more so due to player conflict. Yes, certain groups will fare much better, but this also true in any competitive part of UO. This in turn encourages new guilds to form to try and corner that market and so on and so forth.

 

[Bromista]

I think Violence makes a pretty strong point.

 

[Violence]

I think it's also interesting to note that the dynamics of champs and RDAs are actually similar to how IDOCs used to be on UOF. People are highly protective of their spawns, and rightfully so since the potential for profit can be quite good (if you're lucky). But other people also want to cash in on that too, and they do so by raiding at the latest opportunity - this imo, is a great thing and is what I consider to be true spontaneity, as it keeps you on edge in those last crucial moments.

This is extremely difficult under a random timer and I would be required expend several of my red's heads on any single IDOC, doubly so as a small crew. So ultimately it comes down to a case of;

1. Lots of blues? Log on a blue too, wait patiently for a handout.
2. Got more reds than there are blues? Zerg the IDOC and hope that it falls before the conditions of step 1 are met.

In my experience, number 1 is the most common scenario. It's the path of least resistance and even large guilds have limited heads to lose. Once those are all used up, you're only really left with the waiting game. And that's no fun.

Gone are the days where a small few of us can hope to cause enough confusion and chaos in those last few seconds.

 

[GluttonySDS]

I think Violence makes a pretty strong point.

 

[GluttonySDS]

bump for lack of valid arguments against this.

 

[GluttonySDS]

bump for lack of legit IDOC scene on UOF

 

[Dj Double D]

Who says everyone has to be involved in the IDOC scene? Those who work at them, groups or singles, do make money at them... since when was encouraging PVP part of IDOCs? RDAs and Champs, sure, but why is there such a bleeding heart desire to placate everyone and make it so the guy who joined yesterday has as much of a chance as I do, when i spend hours marking, checking and tracking?
I do just fine with IDOCs, alone and with others, as can anyone. It takes patience and commitment, which is I think what people in this thread dont want to have to deal with. Well tough shit, its hard work, its a legit trade in UO, and last thing we need is to have everybody and their damn grandmother at every IDOC... why not just sys msg drop time and coordinates of every IDOC all the time, gates at every bank? Oh I know why, cos no matter what is done, some one is going to cry...

That being said, the one tweak that MIGHT satisfy all parties is if the 2 hr random timer, after the 2 hr static window, is dropped from 2 hours to 1. That way you have a tighter window to wait (3 hrs max), potentially increasing the action at IDOCs, and it would make it easier, but not easy, for anyone to participate.

 

[GluttonySDS]

The static timer rewards those who put in the time and effort to track IDOCs.

If you dont want to put in the effort to time an IDOC, your IDOC experience would not change -- you can still sit at the IDOC for hours, however those who did put in the effort dont need to show up til its ready to drop.

 

[Violence]

The random timer was the staff's attempt at placating to the masses who for whatever reason, could not or would not bother to learn how the previous system worked. Until you decide to get better, don't expect to be better than the best.

I still don't understand why we had an artificial balance implemented when there was a very reasonable and achievable player solution.


edit: I mean I get it, it isn't fun to be shitted on and have us place 90% of plots, but we had a crew of of 6 from different timezones with questionable PvP skills. Surely, there was a player solution to this.

Just before the IDOC change, }${ were getting into IDOCs too, and that was a lot of fun to come up against another group who were just starting to take it seriously. But alas, I didn't have the time to sit around for 4 hours per house.

 

[GluttonySDS]

The random timer was the staff's attempt at placating to the masses who for whatever reason, could not or would not bother to learn how the previous system worked. Until you decide to get better, don't expect to be better than the best.

I still don't understand why we had an artificial balance implemented when there was a very reasonable and achievable player solution.

 

[Dj Double D]

10 hr static timer is forever tho, by the tenth hour half of uoforever knows the things idoc.
Maybe static is better than random tho i see nothing wrong with the random timer, but 10 hrs is just wayyyyy too much.

 

[Malkraven]

May be we can hold a protest on a bridge somewhere like a bunch of crying girls


#fixidocs

 

[Dj Double D]

Nah flood the forums with tears ;-)