Rework Magic Reflect to make group pvp more challanging.

[Elizabeth Gold]

Current form: Reflects magic back at your attacker. Up to 8 circles. (15 circles with incription)

Proposal form: Reflect magic back at your attacker for 2.5 seconds after the first spell hits (4 seconds with inscription).

Effects:

• One vs One:
  • It would remain comparable to the 8 circles if the attacker continued casting.
  • Attacker can be smart about it and wait it out after the first spell.
  • The defender can prepare another reflect but it's not an ultimate defence because the attacker will gain mana advantage if he's smart about it.

• Group vs Group
  • Unable to alpha down players one by one because you have the numbers.
  • Dexxers can get involved in group vs group again (or at least a few seconds )
  • Target calling gets more tactical:
    • Keep bursting one target and send somebody in for a well timed stun to avoid recasts of reflect magic.
    • Spread damage with lower level spells to pop reflect magic and find/callout the unprepared target.
    • Avoid grouping up too tight to get all shields popped by a single meteor swarm.

 

[drasked]

Your suggestion will make it so a single MA can break a full GM scribe reflect. Compared to now where people break reflect with mana drain and for a GM scribe a couple of mana drains are needed.

 

[halygon]

So, a person with magic reflect up, will reflect ALL damage casted on him/her for the first 2.5 sec (4sec with scribe), then the reflect drops?

Sounds like you are trying to find a solution to zerging, because 2.5 sec is just long enough to cast recall. Its an interesting idea, but I think the issue is like what drasked said. One first circle spell casted will remove the entire spell. So while for the avg non-pvper this would be godly, for the pvper, this would be pretty bad.

It would stop the instant onscreen eb rail, but not any subsequent ones.

 

[Modus]

Current form: Reflects magic back at your attacker. Up to 8 circles. (15 circles with incription)

Proposal form: Reflect magic back at your attacker for 2.5 seconds after the first spell hits (4 seconds with inscription).

Effects:

• One vs One:
  • It would remain comparable to the 8 circles if the attacker continued casting.
  • Attacker can be smart about it and wait it out after the first spell.
  • The defender can prepare another reflect but it's not an ultimate defence because the attacker will gain mana advantage if he's smart about it.

• Group vs Group
  • Unable to alpha down players one by one because you have the numbers.
  • Dexxers can get involved in group vs group again (or at least a few seconds )
  • Target calling gets more tactical:
    • Keep bursting one target and send somebody in for a well timed stun to avoid recasts of reflect magic.
    • Spread damage with lower level spells to pop reflect magic and find/callout the unprepared target.
    • Avoid grouping up too tight to get all shields popped by a single meteor swarm.

In your 1 million iron ingots selling thread you said, that your connection is too bad to do pvp & pvm so you resort to a craftsman character / miner. why are you bothered by magic reflect / group pvp how it is?


orig quote here:

Title: 1.000.000 Iron ingots @ 7.5gp each

Selling my lifetime achievement on this server of one million iron ingots.

Why would I do that?

• Because my connection is too poor to PVM or PVP.

 

[Elizabeth Gold]

@halygon, that's the exactly idea.

• Unable to alpha down players one by one because you have the numbers.

edit: you are right about the recall, not sure if that's a bad thing though - fielding dexxers would be good for diversity.

@Modus, because I can't participate doesn't mean I can help to find a solution to the inherent design flaws where zergcoalistions can dominate all server objectives. I'm not targetting EQMS here, because if it's not them, someone else will do the same thing. Kingsdoms seems like a huge investment which will undoubtedly pave the roadmap and future of this server. This maybe very well the biggest opportunity to stand out or go down the same path as predecessors who made the same mistakes; the downfall of Darkfall (1), the serverlockdowns in ArcheAge, the project 1999 EQ challange, time dialation mechanics to prevent Eve Online from crashing, the need for alarmclock raids in nearly every browser conquest game, * that's considering a redesign only months before launch after zergs decimated the beta, the 'themepark' problem in Guild Wars 2, even World of Warcraft had to patch their pvp area's with half arsed solutions like queue's and minority buffs because it didn't work,... list goes on.

 

[drasked]

@halygon, that's the exactly idea

• Unable to alpha down players one by one because you have the numbers.

@Modus, because I can't participate doesn't mean I can help to find a solution to the inherent design flaws where zergcoalistions can dominate all server objectives. I'm not targetting EQMS here, because if it's not them, someone else will do the same thing. Kingsdoms seems like a huge investment which will undoubtedly pave the roadmap and future of this server. This maybe very well the biggest opportunity to stand out or go down the same path as predecessors who made the same mistakes; the downfall of Darkfall (1), the serverlockdowns in ArcheAge, the project 1999 EQ challange, time dialation mechanics to prevent Eve Online from crashing, the need for alarmclock raids in nearly every browser conquest game, * that's considering a redesign only months before launch after zergs decimated the beta, the 'themepark' problem in Guild Wars 2, even World of Warcraft had to patch their pvp area's with half arsed solutions like queue's and minority buffs because it didn't work,... list goes on.

What kind of ping are you playing on making you unable to participate?

 

[Elizabeth Gold]

How can I check?

 

[drasked]

ping to login.uoforever.com

If it's below 200 and you have no weird issues going you are not being held back by your connection.

 

[Elizabeth Gold]

Ping statistics for 5.254.90.146:
Packets: Sent = 50, Received = 48, Lost = 2 (4% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 301ms, Maximum = 818ms, Average = 415ms

but in all honesty it varries, today is a bad day.

 

[drasked]

Ping statistics for 5.254.90.146:
Packets: Sent = 50, Received = 48, Lost = 2 (4% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 301ms, Maximum = 818ms, Average = 415ms

but in all honesty it varries, today is a bad day.

If you are from Europe that is a VERY abnormal result and there seems to be something wrong with your connection that can be fixed. I can help you with that if you care for a possible solution.

This is what it looks like from the Netherlands;

Ping statistics for 5.254.90.146:
Packets: Sent = 50, Received = 50, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 82ms, Maximum = 83ms, Average = 82ms

This is at work, I ping like 110 from home.

 

[GoD PaRtiCal]

Why would you ask the staff to change how good/balanced pvp mechanics work so that non-pvpers can pvp less?

 

[Elizabeth Gold]

Why would you ask the staff to change how good/balanced pvp mechanics work so that non-pvpers can pvp less?

You seriously agree that insta alpha is a good and balanced pvp mechanic and you use a fallacious argument to prove make your point?

 

[GluttonySDS]

You think insta alpha is a good and balanced pvp mechanic and you use a fallacious argument to prove me in the wrong?

What is insta alpha? Why should someone who gets caught in a 10v1 be able to have a high chance of surviving that situation? You want to balance things around someone surviving a 10v1 but dont realize the impact it would have on a 5v5 or 10v10.

I understand you dont PVP and cant fault you for making suggestions on things you dont know...

 

[Modus]

If you are from Europe that is a VERY abnormal result and there seems to be something wrong with your connection that can be fixed. I can help you with that if you care for a possible solution.

This is what it looks like from the Netherlands;

Ping statistics for 5.254.90.146:
Packets: Sent = 50, Received = 50, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 82ms, Maximum = 83ms, Average = 82ms

This is at work, I ping like 110 from home.

how would you approach the ping problem? i might be interrested too.

 

[Elizabeth Gold]

What is insta alpha?

An opening move that can not be metigated or prevented in any way resulting in certain outcome wheras the target has not a single option.

Why should someone who gets caught in a 10v1 be able to have a high chance of surviving that situation? You want to balance things around someone surviving a 10v1 but dont realize the impact it would have on a 5v5 or 10v10.

Who's staying something about 10v1? In 10V10 it's exactly the same problem. I realize your preferenced gameplay extends to avoiding anyone a possible chance from escaping; even if fighting back isn't an option for them. I agree that recall is an option far too easy which is a big annoyance for those who hunt others. I understand the concerns regarding Magic Reflect+Recall, but lets open the discussion on that. Again, no mechanics are set in stone. This is a suggestion forum after all.

I understand you dont PVP and cant fault you for making suggestions on things you dont know...

I fail to see the reasoning in your argument there, what does me not actively pvping on uof have to do with that?

 

[GoD PaRtiCal]

You seriously agree that insta alpha is a good and balanced pvp mechanic and you use a fallacious argument to prove make your point?

The current magical reflection spell mechanics is, yes, a good and balanced mechanic. It has been for years now, which is why it is identical on nearly every single freeshard out there.

I can think of no reason at all why multiple PKs should not be able to drop a single player with one sync. I mean that's what you are trying to prevent right? What is your reason that they should not be able to?

 

[Elizabeth Gold]

The current magical reflection spell mechanics is, yes, a good and balanced mechanic. It has been for years now, which is why it is identical on nearly every single freeshard out there.

I can think of no reason at all why multiple PKs should not be able to drop a single player with one sync. I mean that's what you are trying to prevent right? What is your reason that they should not be able to?

What I'm trying to prevent is 2 second PVP engagements for the first one being targetted. Kingdoms will add incentive to capture and defend objectives and will be a signature mechanic of this server. Other servers have little insentive other than factions (which has it's own restrictions that have been disabled here) so outnumbering mechanics don't hurt as much. What you want here is variation so you avoid one zerg taking it just because they have the numbers.

I don't know why you keep refering to 10V1 fights, obviously that one player can't stand a chance, the player can prolong his death and maybe have a slight chance of outrunning 10 people (again, I agree the recall + magic reflect needs to be addressed). I doubt nobody of that 10 people brought intercept runes.

 

[drasked]

how would you approach the ping problem? i might be interrested too.

Depends on the problem, but getting packet loss and 800 ms ping spikes from Europe is a serious problem with your connection.

I would start off with running a program called ping plotter (free) that will show where this packet loss and high ping is coming from.

@Elizabeth Gold not interested? You could get in to PVP and find out why your suggestion wil cause problems

Back on topic;

Your suggestion will basically kill the usefulness of inscription.
Change very little in terms of ebolt railing.
And might still get you PK'd (spells that go through reflect and dexers)

If you want to directly address ebolt railing, this is not the way.

 

[Elizabeth Gold]

Sure, I'll give it a try. 14 day trial right?

 

[GoD PaRtiCal]

What I'm trying to prevent is 2 second PVP engagements for the first one being targetted. Kingdoms will add incentive to capture and defend objectives and will be a signature mechanic of this server. Other servers have little insentive other than factions (which has it's own restrictions that have been disabled here) so outnumbering mechanics don't hurt as much. What you want here is variation so you avoid one zerg taking it just because they have the numbers.

I don't know why you keep refering to 10V1 fights, obviously that one player can't stand a chance, the player can prolong his death and maybe have a slight chance of outrunning 10 people (again, I agree the recall + magic reflect needs to be addressed). I doubt nobody of that 10 people brought intercept runes.

I never said 10v1, I said multiple pks vs one player. Even if it is a 10v10, most of the time the fights are syncing on one player, so the concept is the same.

So you want a 2 second engagement to become 4 second? It makes no difference in the end other than screwing over the rest of PvP.

I still say -1