Revamping UOF Fighting/PvP Mechanics

[MZ3K]

I probably listed a bunch of Magery type templates

You listed three Magery templates. Each of which varied by one skill.

because that is what I am comfortable playing

Right, so if you're into playing mages, you effectively have 1 option. The differences you list are like getting one option (say AC) on your car instead of another (say, a stereo). Sure those are considerable differences, but they aren't the sort of differences you might see with a variety of casting types, for example.

when it comes to field PvP and not just 1v1 stun is a very important skill I do not see why anyone in their right mind would give up a 3s stun.

You're making my point: the number of viable templates is severely limited.

 

[Winstonian]

I don't know how else to help you folks besides saying go hit the duel pits and practice, there are far more viable templates than two and I listed many.

Go practice and get good, some new OP template isn't going to make you any better you will still need to learn the mechanics of PVP if you ever intend on getting half decent.

You're pretending that the issue is our ability, ignoring the truth that two builds dominate the PvP front. Two builds. You keep parading out a list that's supposed to 'prove' that there are other viable builds, when - when one looks at what's actually being used in the game itself - there are two builds used by the majority of PvPers. If the majority of the players had to duel for 1m gold, which builds would they choose from? The answer is easy. That's the conversation.

There should be other builds that rival those two, not others that fall well short and should only be considered as novelty options.

 

[Lithium149]

Feel free to keep arguing folks, honestly I tried my best to help here.

 

[Winstonian]

Feel free to keep arguing folks, honestly I tried my best to help here.

I know that there are other builds players can use, but that's not the point. Please answer: do you honestly think that any of those other builds are as good as the two main PvP builds?

That's the conversation.

 

[MZ3K]

You're pretending that the issue is our ability

Thank you.

He believes that this thread is asking for the creation of some "OP template".

Of course that's not the case, if an OP template were introduced, all the others would, necessarily, be UP (i.e. unviable). That would just shrink the number of viable templates, but everything I've written has been about increasing the number of those templates. Clearly that's not what this thread (or at least my posts in it) is about.


If anything what I'm saying in this thread is that I'd like to get PKd by someone swinging something other than a deadly poisoned kryss/warfork.

 

[Winstonian]

Thank you.

He believes that this thread is asking for the creation of some "OP template".

Of course that's not the case, if an OP template were introduced, all the others would, necessarily, be UP (i.e. unviable). That would just shrink the number of viable templates, but everything I've written has been about increasing the number of those templates. Clearly that's not what this thread (or at least my posts in it) is about.


If anything what I'm saying in this thread is that I'd like to get PKd by someone swinging something other than a deadly poisoned kryss/warfork.

Word for word. It's exactly what this game needs, in my opinion. It's so damn good, but the sheer lack of "top tier" options - in terms of PvP - does it a great disservice.

 

[Toguro-pac]

staff here have made it extremely clear that they want mages to be the end all, be all of template choice
sure other stuff can be fun to play, but wont be the dominant choice to play when it comes to pvp

 

[MZ3K]

staff here have made it extremely clear that they want mages to be the end all, be all of template choice
sure other stuff can be fun to play, but wont be the dominant choice to play when it comes to pvp

Maybe in group fights

In any case, even if that's their position (can't tell if you're being sincere or not), it has nothing to do with issue of variety. You can have different types of casters.

 

[drasked]

I know that there are other builds players can use, but that's not the point. Please answer: do you honestly think that any of those other builds are as good as the two main PvP builds?

That's the conversation.

Would more build diversity be good? Sure. But like Shane said, easier said than done. And it's not like you have contributed anything concrete up to this point in regards to this.

Personally i don't think this is a major problem at this time. Let staff focus on rolling out the new system to replace factions and get more people involved in PVP, maybe then we can have a look at the PVP meta that has been the same for the past 8? years on freeshards.

 

[Winstonian]

Would more build diversity be good? Sure. But like Shane said, easier said than done. And it's not like you have contributed anything concrete up to this point in regards to this.

Personally i don't think this is a major problem at this time. Let staff focus on rolling out the new system to replace factions and get more people involved in PVP, maybe then we can have a look at the PVP meta that has been the same for the past 8? years on freeshards.

I haven't contributed anything concrete to build diversity? I disagree. The 6th post in this topic says otherwise.

So, let's take that suggestion (increased chance to hit for slower weapons). I'll break the whole thing down.

Suggestion:

Arms Lore (or pick a useless skill) provides a hit chance increase for weapons. The slower the weapon, the greater the hit chance increase. Fast weapons see no benefit.

Explanation (with help from Stratics):

A character with GM "Arms Lore" would have a scaling accuracy bonus with slow weapons. A halberd, the slowest weapon in the game (3.25 seconds between swings [sbs] with 100 dex and full stam), would have a 100% hit chance with GM Arms Lore and GM Swords. The bonus would decline from there, up to weapons with 2.00 sbs, which would have a minor increase. Weapons with less than 2.00 sbs (butcher knife, cleaver, cutlass, katana, skinning knife, club, dagger, kryss, pitchfork, short spear and war fork) would see no increase. The war hammer (3.00 sbs) would see a significant increase, but would also still have a chance to miss.

Effect:

Not only would slow weapons see a spike in use in the field, but players would potentially build around the halberd. With a 100% hit chance, halberds would see far more use in both PvM and PvP. Such a rise in popularity would have a ripple effect.

But not without a drawback. Putting another skill into the fold would almost require a player use this:

Swords
Tactics
Anatomy
Healing
Resist
Arms Lore
(_______)

Let's not pretend that every player would abandon their 1h poison dexers for halberds, but you'd actually see a new, strong, melee build that didn't involve DP melee swings.

To counter this build, you may actually see a mage add parry to a build. They could cast a spell, equip a shield, parry the slow attack, then target the spell and cast another (potentially two) before the next swing.

This is just one way to add another legitimate option to the fold.

 

[drasked]

I haven't contributed anything concrete to build diversity? I disagree. The 6th post in this topic says otherwise.

So, let's take that suggestion (increased chance to hit for slower weapons). I'll break the whole thing down.

Suggestion:

Arms Lore (or pick a useless skill) provides a hit chance increase for weapons. The slower the weapon, the greater the hit chance increase. Fast weapons see no benefit.

Explanation (with help from Stratics):

A character with GM "Arms Lore" would have a scaling accuracy bonus with slow weapons. A halberd, the slowest weapon in the game (3.25 seconds between swings [sbs] with 100 dex and full stam), would have a 100% hit chance with GM Arms Lore and GM Swords. The bonus would decline from there, up to weapons with 2.00 sbs, which would have a minor increase. Weapons with less than 2.00 sbs (butcher knife, cleaver, cutlass, katana, skinning knife, club, dagger, kryss, pitchfork, short spear and war fork) would see no increase. The war hammer (3.00 sbs) would see a significant increase, but would also still have a chance to miss.

Effect:

Not only would slow weapons see a spike in use in the field, but players would potentially build around the halberd. With a 100% hit chance, halberds would see far more use in both PvM and PvP. Such a rise in popularity would have a ripple effect.

But not without a drawback. Putting another skill into the fold would almost require a player use this:

Swords
Tactics
Anatomy
Healing
Resist
Arms Lore
(_______)

Let's not pretend that every player would abandon their 1h poison dexers for halberds, but you'd actually see a new, strong, melee build that didn't involve DP melee swings.

To counter this build, you may actually see a mage add parry to a build. They could cast a spell, equip a shield, parry the slow attack, then target the spell and cast another (potentially two) before the next swing.

This is just one way to add another legitimate option to the fold.

I don't really see how this would break the current trend, seems like a somewhat subpar build in terms of either survival or killing power depending on the last skill.

Also how does this tie in with defensive wrestling?

 

[Winstonian]

It's one build suggestion that would make 2h weapons viable. Only one suggestion. There would be other tweaks, including tweaks to spells, that would create other viable builds.

It would also do good work against a 1h poison dexer.

(It wouldn't change defensive wrestling from what it is now. Arms Lore would be factored in at the end of everything else.)

 

[K A Z]

this is an UOR shard, and that is all it will ever be; PvP wise...

 

[Winstonian]

this is an UOR shard, and that is all it will ever be; PvP wise...

Oh. It's true to UO:R? Alright. So you think expl pots should splash, right? I agree then. Let's make expl pots splash, which is era-accurate.

(Rage incoming in 3... 2... 1... "I only want it UO:R accurate when it fits my playstyle!")\

But, that's my question to @Shane: is he willing to try and improve PvP from where it was here (and in UO:R), or is he set on keeping it the way it is?

 

[GluttonySDS]

this is an UOR shard, and that is all it will ever be; PvP wise...

Wheres bolas? Wheres wands? Comon now... this shard is a mixture of many styles/eras loosely based on UOR -- theres no reason to shoot down the idea of making PVP have more viable templates because "THIS IS A UOR SHARD!"

 

[K A Z]

Oh. It's true to UO:R? Alright. So you think expl pots should splash, right? I agree then. Let's make expl pots splash, which is era-accurate.

(Rage incoming in 3... 2... 1... "I only want it UO:R accurate when it fits my playstyle!")\

But, that's my question to @Shane: is he willing to try and improve PvP from where it was here (and in UO:R), or is he set on keeping it the way it is?

let them add it.. i dont think that its a good idea, but i could see why it'd be added.

Wheres bolas? Wheres wands? Comon now... this shard is a mixture of many styles/eras loosely based on UOR -- theres no reason to shoot down the idea of making PVP have more viable templates because "THIS IS A UOR SHARD!"

add wands, add bolas. I dont give a fuck. But buff skills? Change up weird stuff? Have fun balancing that out.

 

[Winstonian]

Wheres bolas? Wheres wands? Comon now... this shard is a mixture of many styles/eras loosely based on UOR -- theres no reason to shoot down the idea of making PVP have more viable templates because "THIS IS A UOR SHARD!"

Your ganks hurt my feelings, but your reasoning makes me feel good inside.

 

[Winstonian]

let them add it.. i dont think that its a good idea, but i could see why it'd be added.

Seriously? You'd rather they implement something that you feel would be bad for PvP before they tweak skills to try to create more build diversity?

Think about how that sounds.

 

[MZ3K]

Wheres bolas? Wheres wands? Comon now... this shard is a mixture of many styles/eras loosely based on UOR -- theres no reason to shoot down the idea of making PVP have more viable templates because "THIS IS A UOR SHARD!"

This could go for a lot of suggestions. The UO:R fidelity is pretty much zero at this point. You might say it has the spirit of UO:R (I think it does), but it doesn't resemble it in many other ways (the staff's departures from what UO:R was have all been done pretty well, so it's a good thing.)

 

[wreckognize]

Used to love PvP/PvM here back when you could actually hit things with a weapon without missing 500 times in a row

honestly i feel bad for anyone training a meta dexer during this era of horrible RNG and tier 2 mobs with 150 wrestling. It's very frustrating.