Pvp build diversity?

[Rubeido]

Every build requires magery and a alchemy. If u don't want to be a mage why do i have to take magery, only so I can have spell reflect? Why not give parry the ability to reflect spells? Or hiding can dodge spells up to the amount of spells reflectr? Anything to allow more build diversity. All I see is one or two builds

 

[thestand]

Gtfo of here man. There's more then one or 2 builds.
Heal/stun mage, alchy/stun mage, alchy/ dexxer, poison/dexxer, and then there's all kinds of uoforever templates like alchy/heal mage, poison/alchy dexxer.
Archers are starting to show up on the PvP scene now.
Let's not forget scribe mages,tamer mages, and lumberjacks.

 

[AreYouKidden]

I'm not sure which one to reply to however, that's been my complaint for a while. However you also have to put some things into context.

1v1: Skill > Templates in most cases. With that said, dexxers > mages as long as you know enough to off screen when a mage goes to dump, mages are all about burst damage, but have to stop to cast... so make sure you are engaging when your bandage is about to come due, so that you take some damage, and then heal, and you are set, they won't have the mana to take you.

Group v Group: Mages > All mostly because of the high burst damage, and high burst healing, groups are all about syncing damage. While you can run a lot of different templates in these scenarios - the reality is, it's only the 5x mage that's super useful, additional skills like stun are obviously great, nox can be decent in a group, but can be cured fairly quickly, tracking comes in handy hunting players, healing is handy to keep yourself healed while on the run, inscription if you are the front of the pack, so you can take a mage sync back... But ultimately, the important part is the 5x mage skills.

They did make a change to archers, which has them coming back into the scene - seen some archery groups which do some nice work on the field, will be interesting to see where they slot in. In regards to not wanting to be a mage, or carry mage skills - that's your call, but you are basically gimping yourself in a fight.

I think when most people say they want to see some build diversity, they are mainly talking 1v1, and beyond dexxer/mage. The reality is alchemy is truly a requirement if you aren't slinging extra damage purple pots you are at a disadvantage. I love when I see PvP tamers, or when there used to PvP bard mages. I'd love for Nox Mages to be a real thing, they aren't effective, and that's the crux of the issue is that most templates are not effective, even though they are here, they are rendered ineffective because other templates which include alchemy have a ton of offensive output, leaving you playing defensive the whole time.

Ever wonder why a warrior can increase his offensive output with vanq weapons, but a mage just has a normal spell book with no way to increase their offense? I'd love to see lootable vanq spellbooks...

 

[Rubeido]

Gtfo of here man. There's more then one or 2 builds.
Heal/stun mage, alchy/stun mage, alchy/ dexxer, poison/dexxer, and then there's all kinds of uoforever templates like alchy/heal mage, poison/alchy dexxer.
Archers are starting to show up on the PvP scene now.
Let's not forget scribe mages,tamer mages, and lumberjacks.

you literally just proved my point. google those builds. every single one of them has magery/alchemy.........

 

[Rubeido]

I'm not sure which one to reply to however, that's been my complaint for a while. However you also have to put some things into context.

1v1: Skill > Templates in most cases. With that said, dexxers > mages as long as you know enough to off screen when a mage goes to dump, mages are all about burst damage, but have to stop to cast... so make sure you are engaging when your bandage is about to come due, so that you take some damage, and then heal, and you are set, they won't have the mana to take you.

Group v Group: Mages > All mostly because of the high burst damage, and high burst healing, groups are all about syncing damage. While you can run a lot of different templates in these scenarios - the reality is, it's only the 5x mage that's super useful, additional skills like stun are obviously great, nox can be decent in a group, but can be cured fairly quickly, tracking comes in handy hunting players, healing is handy to keep yourself healed while on the run, inscription if you are the front of the pack, so you can take a mage sync back... But ultimately, the important part is the 5x mage skills.

They did make a change to archers, which has them coming back into the scene - seen some archery groups which do some nice work on the field, will be interesting to see where they slot in. In regards to not wanting to be a mage, or carry mage skills - that's your call, but you are basically gimping yourself in a fight.

I think when most people say they want to see some build diversity, they are mainly talking 1v1, and beyond dexxer/mage. The reality is alchemy is truly a requirement if you aren't slinging extra damage purple pots you are at a disadvantage. I love when I see PvP tamers, or when there used to PvP bard mages. I'd love for Nox Mages to be a real thing, they aren't effective, and that's the crux of the issue is that most templates are not effective, even though they are here, they are rendered ineffective because other templates which include alchemy have a ton of offensive output, leaving you playing defensive the whole time.

Ever wonder why a warrior can increase his offensive output with vanq weapons, but a mage just has a normal spell book with no way to increase their offense? I'd love to see lootable vanq spellbooks...

yes i mainly refer to 1v1. since most engagements are 1v1. group pvp is used more for things like militia, which is something you choose to do. The concern is for pvm getting forced into pvp scenarios in the field. The problem is that if you have a character who is built for pvp, versus a character who is not, their is a clear advantage difference. If more build diversity was allowed, this would allow any build to be competitive so when a pvper goes to engage a pvm player, the pvm has a chance to fight back.

 

[girana]

you literally just proved my point. google those builds. every single one of them has magery/alchemy.........

there are alot templates without magery and/or alch .

 

[Rubeido]

there are alot templates without magery and/or alch .

But they arent viable, you'll always be at a unfair disadvantage.

 

[girana]

But they arent viable, you'll always be at a unfair disadvantage.

ok

loö

 

[Peav]

you literally just proved my point. google those builds. every single one of them has magery/alchemy.........

But they arent viable, you'll always be at a unfair disadvantage.

if you understood what metagaming means you would clearly know that magery and alchemy is a must to have to do damage here.
Magery is used and should be used on every single template on here if you want to win
It is not only used for offensive spells but also utility spells. Every dexxer build should have at least 64 magery if they don't want to relay on scrolls.

Alchemy bonus in a matter of 100 skillpoints sacrifice gives the most damage bonus out of any other skill. Can be used to literally every template to make it more viable. You're clearly missing on that since the core game doesn't have a lot of combat templates diversity.

Comparing non Alchemy templates to GM alchemy templates is 13 damage difference on pots on average, if you want to compare a tamer to that you outscale with damage any pvp template with your pets but yourself without eval int you deal zero damage and you should heavily relay on utility spells.

From my judgement and a end note, I think you're new and predict you aren't really experienced with how the game really works vs other templates. You gotta remember that a template doesnt make a player OP. the player makes the template OP.

 

[Rubeido]

if you understood what metagaming means you would clearly know that magery and alchemy is a must to have to do damage here.
Magery is used and should be used on every single template on here if you want to win
It is not only used for offensive spells but also utility spells. Every dexxer build should have at least 64 magery if they don't want to relay on scrolls.

Alchemy bonus in a matter of 100 skillpoints sacrifice gives the most damage bonus out of any other skill. Can be used to literally every template to make it more viable. You're clearly missing on that since the core game doesn't have a lot of combat templates diversity.

Comparing non Alchemy templates to GM alchemy templates is 13 damage difference on pots on average, if you want to compare a tamer to that you outscale with damage any pvp template with your pets but yourself without eval int you deal zero damage and you should heavily relay on utility spells.

From my judgement and a end note, I think you're new and predict you aren't really experienced with how the game really works vs other templates. You gotta remember that a template doesnt make a player OP. the player makes the template OP.

No ur missing the point ofothe post. Im suggesting make changes tot the system to balance it outowhere magery and alchemy is not needed. Its called balance.

 

[girana]

alchy isnt needed

same with magery.

 

[thestand]

If you spent more time just playing the game and learning how to PvP with what the game currently provides.... instead of arguing for changes when it seems like you haven't even given pvp here a chance....

 

[Rubeido]

If you spent more time just playing the game and learning how to PvP with what the game currently provides.... instead of arguing for changes when it seems like you haven't even given pvp here a chance....

So we should all take a game that gives u the freedom to play how you want, and throw that away to play only one specific way? Then whats the point of playing uo?

Your logic is I must pvpp your way with explosion potions, and heal spells. And to just accept it. Forget thatt

 

[AreYouKidden]

You have the choice to play other shards that meet the UO you want. While the game is about freedom of choice it's still confined to the rules of any one shard....

 

[Proc]

Howdy guys,

I see this was a few years back but I did have just some comments / questions to throw in the mix here. Why not just remove explosion pots from doing significant damage? I played UO from release, till OSI was all but dead and I cannot recall a single build that revolved around explosion pots. Would gimping explosion pot dmg down to near nothing not fix that problem? I know now that everyone on the game would quit because they formed their entire accounts (in pvp regard) to this bottleneck but it seems like something more along the lines of an idea that appeals to a developer more so than anything embedded in UO tradition. Again, I get it at this point the damage is done, but I dont think an explosion pot should mold or define nearly every single PVP build.