Pure Melee PvM Weapon Selection

[Trokair]

So I've spent the last few days going over threads from here and other places and I just can't find any unified opinion on pure Melee PvM builds so I'm asking myself.

What I'm looking for is something slightly tanky, I don't need to be able to solo everything in the world but preferably I'd like to be able to eventually 1v1 a regular dragon. Maybe it's too much to ask but I figured I'd try.

I don't want any bard skills or Magery if I can get away with it. I guess my main stopping point is Parry vs. LJ vs. other 2 handers.

I've seen on these forums people talking Warhammers for AR reduction and crushing blow and recently Q staff for it's speed. Not looking to be the most efficient in the world, just want to have some fun and be successful. Poisoning from what I read is pretty worhless in PvM so I guess no need for bladed weapons.

As I understand it Dexxers are a thing here although I don't quite understand what that means either despite searching.

So that's it. I'm looking for a pure melee, slightly tanky build for regular dragon slaying. Any suggestions or input is appreciated. I did GM swords using a Katana and Parry but I found that to just not be able to perform and when switching to a Warhammer I regularly took too much damage against Ogres and Ettins. Low level stuff I know but that is why I'm looking for some guidance. I'm also working on better armor as I'm wearing stock ringmail. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: After lots of suggestions, smithing, and plenty of trials I have ended up with the Katana anyway. Current game mechanics make the weapon far too powerful to ignore. I did not test Fencing weapons as the Kryss is considered just a step below the Katana. No other melee weapon came close in terms of sustained damage for PvM one handed, two handed, or LJ. I'm not a huge fan but it is far too unbalanced to take any other weapon currently.

 

[Kryptoknight]

Kats are super op. Krysses are also quite good but less consistent. I have used all 3 melee skills a fair amount and have found that 2 handers aren't that great. AR is definitely an issue here. I would get GM parry and use a shield and Kat. Shields give massive AR and are pretty cheap. Using a 1 hander and shield allows you to drop the shield to use a potion without giving up damage. I would also look into getting the resilience talisman and invest in a swamp dragon with barding as soon as possible.

 

[Keltonator]

I honestly think that one of the most underrated weapons in the game is the war axe. I remember back in the day everyone used one, now for whatever reason seeing them is very rare. They're one handed, so you can still use parry with a shield, slightly slower ss than say a kryss or katana, but more damage. Imo it's the perfect middle ground between kats and war hammers, which is what everyone and their mom uses.

 

[Lightfoot]

http://www.uoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weapons

Weapon Name STR Req. Damage Speed HP Skill
Axe (2-H) 35 3d10+3 (6-33) 37 31-100 Swords
Battle Axe (2-H) 40 2d17+4 (6-38) 30 31-80 Swords
Double Axe (2-H) 45 1d31+4 (5-35) 37 31-110 Swords
Executioner's Axe (2-H) 35 3d10+3 (6-33) 37 31-90 Swords
Hatchet (2-H) 15 1d16+1 (2-17) 40 31-80 Swords
Large Battle Axe (2-H) 40 2d17+4 (6-38) 30 31-110 Swords
Pickaxe 25 1d15 (1-15) 35 31-60 Swords
Two-handed Axe (2-H) 35 2d18+3 (5-39) 30 31-70 Swords
War Axe 35 6d4+3 (9-27) 40 31-80 Mace *
Bows
Weapon Name STR Req. Damage Speed HP Skill
Bow (2-H) 20 4d9+5 (9-41) 20 31-60 Archery
Crossbow (2-H) 30 5d8+3 (8-43) 18 31-80 Archery
Crossbow, Heavy (2-H) 40 5d10+6 (11-56) 10 31-100 Archery
Knives & Daggers
Weapon Name STR Req. Damage Speed HP Skill
Butcher Knife 5 2d7 (2-14) 40 31-40 Swords
Cleaver 10 1d12+1 (2-13) 40 31-50 Swords
Dagger 1 3d5 (3-15) 55 31-50 Fencing
Skinning Knife 5 1d10 (1-10) 40 31-40 Swords
Maces & Hammers
Weapon Name STR Req. Damage Speed HP Skill
Club 10 4d5+4 (8-24) 40 31-40 Mace *
Hammer Pick 35 3d10+3 (6-33) 30 31-70 Mace *
Mace * 20 6d5+2 (8-32) 30 31-70 Mace *
Magic Wand 0 2d3 (2-6) 35 31-70 Mace *
Maul 20 5d5+5 (10-30) 30 31-70 Mace *
Smith's Hammer 30 6d3 (6-18) 30 31-60 Mace *
War Hammer (2-H) 40 7d5+1 (8-36) 31 31-110 Mace *
War Mace * 30 5d5+5 (10-30) 32 31-110 Mace *
Pole Arms
Weapon Name STR Req. Damage Speed HP Skill
Bardiche (2-H) 40 2d20+3 (5-43) 26 31-100 Swords
Halberd(2-H) 45 2d23+3 (5-49) 25 31-80 Swords
Practice Weapons
Weapon Name STR Req. Damage Speed HP Skill
(ALL) 1 2d4 (2-8) (same) (same) (same)
Spears & Forks
Weapon Name STR Req. Damage Speed HP Skill
Pitchfork (2-H) 15 4d4 (4-16) 45 31-60 Fencing
Short Spear (2-H) 15 2d15+2 (4-32) 50 31-70 Fencing
Spear (2-H) 30 2d18 (2-36) 46 31-80 Fencing
War Fork 35 1d29+3 (4-32) 45 31-110 Fencing
Staves
Weapon Name STR Req. Damage Speed HP Skill
Black Staff (2-H) 35 5d6+3 (8-33) 35 31-70 Mace *
Gnarled Staff (2-H) 20 5d5+5 (10-30) 33 31-50 Mace *
Quarterstaff (2-H) 30 5d5+3 (8-28) 48 31-60 Mace *
Shepherd's Crook (2-H) 10 3d4 (3-12) 30 31-50 Mace *
Swords
Weapon Name STR Req. Damage Speed HP Skill
Broad Sword 25 2d13+3 (5-29) 45 31-100 Swords
Cutlass 10 2d12+4 (6-28) 45 31-70 Swords
Katana 10 3d8+2 (5-26) 58 31-90 Swords
Kryss 10 1d26+2 (3-28) 53 31-90 Fencing
Longsword 25 2d15+3 (5-33) 35 31-90 Swords
Long Sword (thin) 25 2d15+3 (5-33) 35 31-90 Swords
Scimitar 10 2d14+2 (4-30) 43 31-90 Swords
Viking Sword 40 4d8+2 (6-34) 30 31-90 Swords
Unarmed
Weapon Name STR Req. Damage Speed HP Skill
Bare Fists -- 1d8 (1-8) ?? -- Wrestling


Katana, then broadsword and cutlass. Kryss, war fork, short spear, long spear. War hammer, war mace, qstaff, longbow heavy xbow. Everyhing else mostly not great.

 

[Lightfoot]

I honestly think that one of the most underrated weapons in the game is the war axe. I remember back in the day everyone used one, now for whatever reason seeing them is very rare. They're one handed, so you can still use parry with a shield, slightly slower ss than say a kryss or katana, but more damage. Imo it's the perfect middle ground between kats and war hammers, which is what everyone and their mom uses.

To sum up damage/speed/durability
Katana 3d8+2 (5-26)/ 58/ 31-90 Swords
Kryss 1d26+2 (3-28)/ 53/ 31-90 Fencing

War Hammer (2-H) 7d5+1 (8-36)/ 31/ 31-110 Mace
War Axe 6d4+3 (9-27)/ 40 /31-80 Mace
War Mace 5d5+5 (10-30)/ 32/ 31-110 Mace

war hammer does base 8-36 with 31 speed, war axe does 9-27 with 40 speed, or or war mace is 10-30 with 32 speed. war hammer has the stunning blow, but the base minimum damage much lower...the war mace has the best durability of anything, average speed, and hits for more. Id take that any day. Still, Kryss and Katana blow away he maces in just pure speed. Fencing weapons are all fast, and some with serious damage. Unless you are a LJ, swords don't match up save the katana.

 

[Trokair]

I went back out and did a side by side with a few Ogre Paragons. Surprisingly I saw great things from a club of all things when comparing mace weapons. Raw damage the War Hammer won out but for toe-toe the club + parry outdid my War Axe easily. I'll smith up a War Mace and give that a go next. Thanks for all of the input,, it has given me a lot of things to look at versus just trying random things. I took out a Katana and while it is fast it just felt weak. I'll take it out for another spin with a War Mace and compare that to my club. Additional input is still very much appreciated.

 

[Trokair]

Am I correct in that all maces do AR damage? The Wiki page seems to indicate that is correct. And does the AR damage increase damage done PvM? I was under the initial impression that it was only the two handers with the Crushing Blow.

 

[Trokair]

Well now I see about the Katana and think I know why. Even at GM I seem to miss a good amount on Paragons. Having more swings lessens the impact of misses so while I may do as little as 9 damage on a swing the cumulative damage from making up missed swings equals greater damage in a set amount of time. As the fastest weapon in the game, as long as I can't guarantee every hit will land the fastest weapon should do the most damage if the raw damage of the weapon is balanced (which it appears it is). Larger hits would be more necessary for mobile targets like players as your swing opportunities need to count more.

Unless there is something like a larger chance to miss for faster weapons or if I overlooked something. If not I don't think current differences in minimal/maximum damage or special attributes offset the swing speed except perhaps Double Axe/Execution Axe + LJ as it has the potential for almost double the maximum damage although even that could be stretching it depending on the miss rate. Plus that is 2 handers vs 1 hander.

If I'm incorrect someone please correct me but if all of that is right then there really is no reason to use anything but a Katana for PvM at GM levels.

 

[Trokair]

I've decided to stay with Maceing and Parry for the War Axe and possibly Clubs/Staves if crafting magical items with Carpentry ends up being as simple as it sounds vs. Runic Hammers.

I'm positive the Katana does more damage but I don't like the feel of the gameplay. War Axe is fast enough with enough damage behind each hit to make me pretty happy. Thank you everyone for the input.

 

[kurtis]

I've decided to stay with Maceing and Parry for the War Axe and possibly Clubs/Staves if crafting magical items with Carpentry ends up being as simple as it sounds vs. Runic Hammers.

I'm positive the Katana does more damage but I don't like the feel of the gameplay. War Axe is fast enough with enough damage behind each hit to make me pretty happy. Thank you everyone for the input.

^ that's what is most important: what suits your style of gameplay. Even in PvM, everyone has a different way of doing things. Find what's fun and roll with it. There is no "right" answer to what a particular person finds enjoyable or effective.

 

[Lightfoot]

War mace still better choice for macer, don't be afraid to use them.

 

[clutchxo]

So I've spent the last few days going over threads from here and other places and I just can't find any unified opinion on pure Melee PvM builds so I'm asking myself.

What I'm looking for is something slightly tanky, I don't need to be able to solo everything in the world but preferably I'd like to be able to eventually 1v1 a regular dragon. Maybe it's too much to ask but I figured I'd try.

I don't want any bard skills or Magery if I can get away with it. I guess my main stopping point is Parry vs. LJ vs. other 2 handers.

I've seen on these forums people talking Warhammers for AR reduction and crushing blow and recently Q staff for it's speed. Not looking to be the most efficient in the world, just want to have some fun and be successful. Poisoning from what I read is pretty worhless in PvM so I guess no need for bladed weapons.

As I understand it Dexxers are a thing here although I don't quite understand what that means either despite searching.

So that's it. I'm looking for a pure melee, slightly tanky build for regular dragon slaying. Any suggestions or input is appreciated. I did GM swords using a Katana and Parry but I found that to just not be able to perform and when switching to a Warhammer I regularly took too much damage against Ogres and Ettins. Low level stuff I know but that is why I'm looking for some guidance. I'm also working on better armor as I'm wearing stock ringmail. Thanks in advance.

Swords
Tactics
Anatomy
Healing
Parry
Magic Resist
Arms Lore

STR:100
DEX: 100
INT: 25


-Katana
-Heater Shield
-Full Platemail
Work on getting your Talisman, I think defensive talisman works best with Heavy tank.
The Katana allows alot of small damage, with full platemail you will be losing quite a bit of dexterity, So faster weapons will keep your DPS up. Arms lore with the new changes should help with Hit %. Have a macro to equip/unequip your shield for potions if you get to low. Keep your armor fully repaired and you will take close to no damage from melee monsters. If you want to hit harder, but swing slower just change to a Great sword or Viking. The defensive fully maxed will allow you to sit in the middle of champ spawns and get your ass whooped and you will be ok for a good 3-4 minutes.

 

[Steele'Dish]

Definitely with the new Arms Lore i'll be adjusting my parry dexxer to have it and the increased hit. @Trokair Get you talisman! http://www.uoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Meta_Talismans

The Phylactery of Resilience will get you 50% damage reduction once it is fully leveled up. If you get a swamp dragon mount and put a valorite barding deed on it, thats an additional 20% damage reduction. Makes dexxers tanky

 

[Trokair]

Swords
Tactics
Anatomy
Healing
Parry
Magic Resist
Arms Lore

STR:100
DEX: 100
INT: 25


-Katana
-Heater Shield
-Full Platemail
Work on getting your Talisman, I think defensive talisman works best with Heavy tank.
The Katana allows alot of small damage, with full platemail you will be losing quite a bit of dexterity, So faster weapons will keep your DPS up. Arms lore with the new changes should help with Hit %. Have a macro to equip/unequip your shield for potions if you get to low. Keep your armor fully repaired and you will take close to no damage from melee monsters. If you want to hit harder, but swing slower just change to a Great sword or Viking. The defensive fully maxed will allow you to sit in the middle of champ spawns and get your ass whooped and you will be ok for a good 3-4 minutes.

I'm still trying to use the Maces, literally any Mace but the reality has hit home that nothing can outmatch the Katana. I tried Axes + LJ as well and while they land some big hits, sustained DPS isn't great. The DPS gap between the Katana and every other weapon I've tired is huge. I'm actually surprised at how unbalanced it is. As this is my first real melee character I've not previously paid attention to anything with the weapons but it really is way off the charts. Is there a reason in melee PvM to use anything else? I've tried to find one and come up blank. I haven't tried fencing though because I understand that the Kryss is basically a below average Katana.

This is my second character on the server, the first being my crafter but I am looking to get the defensive talisman and go full tank. I understand you need 30 Vanquishing weapons to really even start. I have yet to see my first as I am still having issue taking down more than one Air Ele. Small steps.

@Steele'Dish I forgot to mention the Swamp Dragon. 100% planning on getting myself one of those as well although the lowest I've seen it available is 5k more than I have total and I'm about to try and find a place to put a small house. Then I want a boat. Then I'll get the Dragon. Then either the Barding or the SS to train it on my crafter. Lots of new things for me to do this time around is making it a lot of fun to play.

 

[Steele'Dish]

I'm still trying to use the Maces, literally any Mace but the reality has hit home that nothing can outmatch the Katana. I tried Axes + LJ as well and while they land some big hits, sustained DPS isn't great. The DPS gap between the Katana and every other weapon I've tired is huge. I'm actually surprised at how unbalanced it is. As this is my first real melee character I've not previously paid attention to anything with the weapons but it really is way off the charts. Is there a reason in melee PvM to use anything else? I've tried to find one and come up blank. I haven't tried fencing though because I understand that the Kryss is basically a below average Katana.

This is my second character on the server, the first being my crafter but I am looking to get the defensive talisman and go full tank. I understand you need 30 Vanquishing weapons to really even start. I have yet to see my first as I am still having issue taking down more than one Air Ele. Small steps.

@Steele'Dish I forgot to mention the Swamp Dragon. 100% planning on getting myself one of those as well although the lowest I've seen it available is 5k more than I have total and I'm about to try and find a place to put a small house. Then I want a boat. Then I'll get the Dragon. Then either the Barding or the SS to train it on my crafter. Lots of new things for me to do this time around is making it a lot of fun to play.

Sadly, even at 120 Smithing, you have a 25% chance to make the Barding deed. It takes 1000 ingots. You would want to have a +30 or +60 Ancient Smithing hammer to make sure you create it without losing a ton of expensive materials. Since you aren't deep in the money i would suggest making a provoker treasure hunter. You can do Expert and Adept maps pretty easily solo, and it's a good way to find some vanq weapons and armor.

Cartography - 70 is all you need
Lockpicking - Can get to 95 using crafted locked boxes (more than enough to unlock expert/adept maps)
Provoking - 100 - easy to raise to 100 at the provoker table
Musicianship - 100
the last 3 are up to you
some do magery/med/eval int
others use archery/anat/tacts/healing - though tactics will have to go if you want to heal.... you want to heal.

Also, use the house placement tool and run around the lands to find a spot. i find some decent sized plots of land from time to time. So it may be worth your time to do that instead of paying the overhead through the selling forums

 

[Young Star]

I am really stubborn about having my dexer viable for both PvM and pvp. This arms Lore addition for boosting minimum HC has really widen the gap between an ideal PvM template and a PvP template. This will likely keep getting wider as long as they leave pvp isolated by any new content.

 

[Steele'Dish]

i will always have my LJ/Archer PvM/PvPer to use, just wish the 120 LJ would do a little more damage to mobs instead of it capping at 100 LJ. So why not have a fully PvM dexxer? it may hold up a little better than you think in PvP. Either way a PvP or PvM build wont hold long against rolling gank squads anyways

 

[Trokair]

@Steele'Dish Well my three slots are currently taken up. Crafter/PvM Dexxer/Fishing Archer Bard. I'm also not going to use multiple accounts, just ruins something for me. In all likelihood I will GM BS/Tinkering on the crafter before any other serious investments. I do take out the Dexxer to get some pocket money and occasionally fish with my other. Hence I have lots of low level T-maps already. I have a friend who started with me that may be doing a T-hunter setup so I might be able to monetize those sometime in the future. I'd like to do my own Barding for a Swamp Dragon just to say I've done it. I'm not in a hurry to get filthy rich here anyway.

@Young Star I actually like the Arms Lore change (or at least the idea of it). I have a problem with wanting to do everything with one character. That change has really made it easy for me to decide. If I am PvM, Arms Lore. If not then I have options. Probably poisoning, I've never done that and I expect it is annoying as hell in an actual PvP situation (my prior PvP experience being running/recalling/dieing I wouldn't really know). Of course I've not done a Nox Mage either. Decisions decisions. Either way I have 0 free slots left and precious little money so I'm not sweating the construction of a yet to be and probably pretty far off character.

 

[Projectstfu]

Ok so I took the time to crunch the numbers provided and make a numerical value of each weapons damage. This damage is based on just sitting and swinging at a target without other things factored in. No movement or damage enhancing effects, not even the weapon procs like bonus damage on war hammer, or lumberjacking bonus on axes. Just straight raw figures based on damage values and weapon speed. If I did this wrong feel free to correct me.

I am providing 2 lists, one with every weapon in order from most to least damage (minus wrestling) and the next with them split into separate weapon categories.

All Weapons:

1. Katana - 35.09
2. Kryss - 32.065
3. War Fork - 31.725
4. Broad Sword - 29.475
5. Double Axe - 26.085
6. Scimitar - 26.015
7. Spear - 25.53
8. Short Spear - 25.25
9. Axe - 24.235
10. Cutlass - 22.725
11. Executioner's Axe - 22.385
12. Dagger - 22.275
13. War Axe - 22.2
14. Hatchet - 22.2
15. War Hammer - 21.855
16. Quarterstaff - 21.84
17. Longsword - 21.175
18. Large Battle Axe - 21.15
19. War Mace - 20.96
20. Pitchfork - 20.475
21. Viking Sword - 18.15
22. Black Staff - 17.675
23. Magic Wand - 17.675
24. Bardiche - 17.03
25. Battle Axe - 16.65
26. Cleaver - 16.2
27. Pickaxe - 15.925
28. Two-handed Axe - 15.15
29. Hammer Pick - 15.15
30. Mace - 15.15
31. Maul - 15.15
32. Butcher Knife - 14.2
33. Skinning Knife - 14.2
34. Club - 14.2
35. Halberd - 13.875
36. Smith's Hammer - 13.65
37. Gnarled Staff - 13.365
38. Shepherd's Crook - 12.15
39. Crossbow - 9.99
40. Bow - 9.1
41. Heavy Crossbow - 6.55

Separated By Type

Axes:

Double Axe - 26.085
Axe - 24.235
Executioner's Axe - 22.385
Hatchet - 22.2
Large Battle Axe - 21.15
Battle Axe - 16.65
Pickaxe - 15.925
Two-handed Axe - 15.15

Bows:

Crossbow - 9.99
Bow - 9.1
Heavy Crossbow - 6.55

Maces:

War Hammer - 21.855
Quarterstaff - 21.84
War Mace - 20.96
Black Staff - 17.675
Magic Wand - 17.675
Club - 14.2
Hammer Pick - 15.15
Mace - 15.15
Maul - 15.15
Smith's Hammer - 13.65
Gnarled Staff - 13.365
Shepherd's Crook - 12.15

Swords:

Katana - 35.09
Broad Sword - 29.475
Scimitar - 26.015
Cutlass - 22.725
Longsword - 21.175
Viking Sword - 18.15
Bardiche - 17.03
Cleaver - 16.2
Butcher Knife - 14.2
Skinning Knife - 14.2
Halberd - 13.875

Fencing:

Kryss - 32.065
War Fork - 31.725
Spear - 25.53
Short Spear - 25.25
Dagger - 22.275
Pitchfork - 20.475

Hope this helps.

Edit: forgot to list the fencing weapons category in order, had to rearrange.

 

[Trokair]

@Projectstfu Thanks a lot for the info, it is awesome! It also matches up really close to what I was seeing. Double Axe + LJ should do slightly more damage but you lose the utility of a one hander and/or the ability to poison which puts Katana way over the top for PvM.

I find it really interesting that the top 4 weapons are one-handers. Concussion blow and Crushing blow didn't really do very much in my experience vs. mobs making them rather useless in PvM. Landing a special hit in PvP is probably very useful although I've died more to purple potion spam than anything else so far but I see where this could be for balancing. I'm still surprised that there is an almost 40% damage difference between the Katana and the *best two hander.

*Not taking Crushing blow into account though the nearest weapon according to your info is already -13 damage from a katana and I couldn't find any information on the Crushing Blow damage. The only other thing I could think of for balancing this way (outside of PvP) would be if the magical attributes are calculated differently then just straight across the board. Are they per hit static damage modifiers as I assume because that would cause faster weapons to skyrocket even higher above slow weapons.

Edit: I also realize that part of the balancing on UOF for PvM is the Talismans although that would seem to still make the Katana unbeatable.