PROVO - MAGE

[Rachel Wall]

I make tons of money with a template similar to this, only difference is I do not have resist, and I have stealth.

 

[FingersFinn]

I am working on an alt with a template like this. GM Mage/Med/Eval/Music/Provo/Hide/80 Stealth/20 points into Provo most likely when I can get cash to fund the PSs. I'll be interested to see how this works out. I don't pvp and am all about movement and utility.

 

[lollo]

I am working on an alt with a template like this. GM Mage/Med/Eval/Music/Provo/Hide/80 Stealth/20 points into Provo most likely when I can get cash to fund the PSs. I'll be interested to see how this works out. I don't pvp and am all about movement and utility.

Honestly I don't see the utility of stealth on a bard. Hiding sure, it's good, you can hide without breaking provo which is godlike. But stealth????? If you move out of range the mobs will un-provo themselves, so why do you even need it?

I think it's 100 wasted points, gm resist will save your ass A LOT more times, even in pvm. God knows how many times i've been double flamestriked by some greater blood paragon and survived only because of gm resist. You'll also resist poisons many times.

FYI, the first time you use a PS your skill cap will raise by 20. So it's possible to have 6x gm skill and 1x 120. This means that in your template you could have gm stealth (although as i said, it's not a good idea) and 120 provo at the same time.

 

[FingersFinn]

Honestly I don't see the utility of stealth on a bard. Hiding sure, it's good, you can hide without breaking provo which is godlike. But stealth????? If you move out of range the mobs will un-provo themselves, so why do you even need it?

I think it's 100 wasted points, gm resist will save your ass A LOT more times, even in pvm. God knows how many times i've been double flamestriked by some greater blood paragon and survived only because of gm resist. You'll also resist poisons many times.

FYI, the first time you use a PS your skill cap will raise by 20. So it's possible to have 6x gm skill and 1x 120. This means that in your template you could have gm stealth (although as i said, it's not a good idea) and 120 provo at the same time.

As far as I can tell from many posts, Resist Spells is primarily a PVP skill. It doesn't lower damage from things like Flamestrike. I could be completely wrong but information I have acquired about RS states it shortens effects of spells like Paralyze, and yes, poisons (ie-duration spell effects). In PVM nearly everyone has told me not to really bother with RS unless you plan on doing some PVP as well.

The reason I personally considered stealth with the template is to avoid PVP altogether. Hiding is nice indeed. However, being essentially frozen in one spot waiting for a Reveal spell to be thrown your way is not so nice. At least with Stealth I can move away and watch as the PK runs around frantically trying to find me. I am interested in playing the build. With Provo I shouldn't be getting hit very often by mobs anyways. Instead of bailing ship with a recall macro when a red rides in I hide, walk to the side, and resume whatever I'm doing when he/they leave.

Edit: And I know there are plenty of folks who affirm that using hiding and stealth with any template other than a thief are relying too much on a "crutch". Be that as it may, it is a very useful crutch in avoiding the inevitable red confrontation. PKs are a part of the game and that is what is thrilling about it. I wouldn't have UOF any other way. Cat and mouse are fun to play and one day when I am ready I'll make a red too

 

[lollo]

As far as I can tell from many posts, Resist Spells is primarily a PVP skill. It doesn't lower damage from things like Flamestrike (which actually requires fire resistance to mitigate). I could be completely wrong but information I have acquired about RS states it shortens effects of spells like Paralyze, and yes, poisons. In PVM many folks have told me not to really bother with RS unless you plan on doing some PVP as well.

The reason I personally considered stealth with the template is to avoid PVP altogether. Hiding is nice indeed. However, being essentially frozen in one spot waiting for a Reveal spell to be thrown your way is not so nice. At least with Stealth I can move away and watch as the PK runs around frantically trying to find me. I am interested in playing the build. With Provo I shouldn't be getting hit very often by mobs anyways. Instead of bailing ship with a recall macro when a red rides in I hide, walk to the side, and resume whatever I'm doing when he/they leave.

Resist IS primarily a pvp skill, but the rest of the info you got is wrong. There are no specific resists (fire, poison ice etc) on this server (they were introduced with AOS iirc). You can definitely resist spells in pvm and it happens a lot. As i said, there have been many instances were I survived only because of it. Even with provo you will get casted on by mobs. Sometimes you have to "lure" them close to eachother to provo and they're not always close. So you might be carrying one mob from 1 screen away and he's attacking you, as soon as you get in the same screen as the other mob, they both cast FS and you're dead before being able to provo (they have to be within 8 tiles iirc to provo). Thrust me, it DOES happen. Also, MANY times there will be a lot of mobs at once before you can provoke them all. In good farming spots it's not unusual to have 3-5 mobs in the same screen and with gm resist you can usually provo all of them without running away. With 0 resist even a crappy crystal elemental can be a problem while you're trying to porovoke 2 greater bloods.

As a matter of fact i used to have hiding on my template and i dropped it for resist. Believe it or not, resist is saving my ass 300% more than hiding.
Hiding won't really save you from PKs, at least not from the smart ones. It happened a lot to me that i was hidden with mobs fighting next to me, and as soon as PKs arrived (i was hidden) they'd see provoked mobs and immediately cast reveal. And once revealed, with 0 resist you're gonna die 101% of the times. Stealth has the problem of unprovoking the mobs while you move. I'm not saying it's bad, but I think that gm wrestle + gm resist gives you MUCH greater chances of surviving in both pvp and pvm.

 

[lollo]

Also another thing, after provoking you cannot hide for 6-8 seconds (skill cooldown). I have 105 provo and sometimes against top tier mobs (paragons, balrons, AW etc) I still fail to provo. Good luck being stuck in a room with a balron and 3-4 gargoyles with no resist and unable to hide

 

[FingersFinn]

Resist IS primarily a pvp skill, but the rest of the info you got is wrong. There are no specific resists (fire, poison ice etc) on this server (they were introduced with AOS iirc). You can definitely resist spells in pvm and it happens a lot. As i said, there have been many instances were I survived only because of it. Even with provo you will get casted on by mobs. Sometimes you have to "lure" them close to eachother to provo and they're not always close. So you might be carrying one mob from 1 screen away and he's attacking you, as soon as you get in the same screen as the other mob, they both cast FS and you're dead before being able to provo (they have to be within 8 tiles iirc to provo). Thrust me, it DOES happen. Also, MANY times there will be a lot of mobs at once before you can provoke them all. In good farming spots it's not unusual to have 3-5 mobs in the same screen and with gm resist you can usually provo all of them without running away. With 0 resist even a crappy crystal elemental can be a problem while you're trying to porovoke 2 greater bloods.

As a matter of fact i used to have hiding on my template and i dropped it for resist. Believe it or not, resist is saving my ass 300% more than hiding.
Hiding won't really save you from PKs, at least not from the smart ones. It happened a lot to me that i was hidden with mobs fighting next to me, and as soon as PKs arrived (i was hidden) they'd see provoked mobs and immediately cast reveal. And once revealed, with 0 resist you're gonna die 101% of the times. Stealth has the problem of unprovoking the mobs while you move. I'm not saying it's bad, but I think that gm wrestle + gm resist gives you MUCH greater chances of surviving in both pvp and pvm.

Huh. Thank you for the information. Somewhere I received some bad info about RS then. I was told that it only reduces the effects of duration-type spells and that was it. PVP and not worth it in PVM. Every time I've pitched a template idea that included RS (I'm still fairly new to the mechanics) I am immediately asked if I plan on PVP. I say no, they say drop RS. Never fails.

 

[FingersFinn]

Also another thing, after provoking you cannot hide for 6-8 seconds (skill cooldown). I have 105 provo and sometimes against top tier mobs (paragons, balrons, AW etc) I still fail to provo. Good luck being stuck in a room with a balron and 3-4 gargoyles with no resist and unable to hide

Invis? And can you wait out the skill cooldown like steal and insta-hide (queue steal, count to 10, steal, hit hide=queue provo, count to 10, provo, hide)?

 

[lollo]

Invis? And can you wait out the skill cooldown like steal and insta-hide (queue steal, count to 10, steal, hit hide=queue provo, count to 10, provo, hide)?

If you fail to provo the mobs immediately attack you. Without wrestling a balron will basically insta kill you with melee and he also casts 60+ damage flamestrikes. Plus there are other mobs casting in the same room.

You need +/- 3 seconds to cast invisibility and without resist and wrestling it's very easy to get disrupted and/or killed while casting it.

Of course against lower end mobs it isn't that much of a problem but there are mobs that can kill you in 2 seconds in this game, and they happen to be the ones with good loot!

No idea about the queque stuff, might have learned something new here, but then again, you won't be able to press provo, wait 6 seconds before targetting and then hiding with monsters attacking you.

 

[Keltonator]

Can you Provo while hidden? Like run into a herd of mobs, hit hide before they attack you, then wait for the cool down to timeout and spam Provo on them without breaking your hiding?

 

[lollo]

Can you Provo while hidden? Like run into a herd of mobs, hit hide before they attack you, then wait for the cool down to timeout and spam Provo on them without breaking your hiding?

hahahah no!!

Otherwise I'd drop resist or wrestle for hiding in a heartbeat!

Provoking will immediately reveal you (before targeting) and leave you unable to hide for 6-8 seconds

 

[Keltonator]

Ah, well shit. There goes that idea. Lol

 

[FingersFinn]

If you fail to provo the mobs immediately attack you. Without wrestling a balron will basically insta kill you with melee and he also casts 60+ damage flamestrikes. Plus there are other mobs casting in the same room.

You need +/- 3 seconds to cast invisibility and without resist and wrestling it's very easy to get disrupted and/or killed while casting it.

Of course against lower end mobs it isn't that much of a problem but there are mobs that can kill you in 2 seconds in this game, and they happen to be the ones with good loot!

No idea about the queque stuff, might have learned something new here, but then again, you won't be able to press provo, wait 6 seconds before targetting and then hiding with monsters attacking you.

I will have to consider the new information you have provided!

As for the queue skills--if you queue stealing and not select a target, wait for the 10 seconds for it to "reset", then use the skill.. you can hit hide and instantly re-hide. I've done it many times in various places and when done right, monsters can't target you before you pop out of site again in dungeons. I was just wondering if this same thing works with provo.

Still may try the mage/med/eval/music/provo/hide/stealth setup and see how it goes. It'll be a while before I am ready to begin tangoing with mobs that kill in 2 seconds. Still learning and all.

 

[lollo]

I will have to consider the new information you have provided!

As for the queue skills--if you queue stealing and not select a target, wait for the 10 seconds for it to "reset", then use the skill.. you can hit hide and instantly re-hide. I've done it many times in various places and when done right, monsters can't target you before you pop out of site again in dungeons. I was just wondering if this same thing works with provo.

Still may try the mage/med/eval/music/provo/hide/stealth setup and see how it goes. It'll be a while before I am ready to begin tangoing with mobs that kill in 2 seconds. Still learning and all.

will try this queue stuff, sounds interesting!

Yeah, try wrestling/hiding first (really can't reccomend stealth tho) they're both REALLY easy to gm. Wrestle will gm in 2 hours fighting npc in jhelom pits, hiding can be macroed afk in a dungeon in 24 hours.

Resist is more expensive and can't be macroed AFK as easily (risk getting pked and losing thousands of gold in reagents) so you might try that one later on when you're confident in your skills

 

[FingersFinn]

Wrestling would be easy, indeed. Resisting spells wouldn't be hard as I have a little spot tucked away I can go that is never traveled. I could use a macro I set up to GM magery with. I also used the same spot to GM hiding while I slept Saturday night lol. Wasn't bothered once there in two days of training. I just read some more on RS buried among more threads and the information is concurrent with yours. I know I could cast protection to avoid spell interrupt for a couple minutes at a time. Although wrestling GM could work well for defense with the GM Eval.

Still unsure about it though. The great thing is if I don't like my build, I can always change it

If it doesn't suit me I'll keep your recommendations on deck

 

[SaladinX]

Whats this Queue skill stuff?

 

[FingersFinn]

@lollo I am going to drop hiding/stealth and take wrestling/RS and try it out.

@SaladinX When stealing you can hit steal and wait. Count to 10. Steal and hit hide. You are in effect able to steal and then re-hide right then and there before being targeted by mobs in dungeons (and players too).

 

[halygon]

@SaladinX When stealing you can hit steal and wait. Count to 10. Steal and hit hide. You are in effect able to steal and then re-hide right then and there before being targeted by mobs in dungeons (and players too).

^^Needs to be fixed among other things.

 

[FingersFinn]

Thieves are already pretty defenseless. It's one way to actually steal as I've learned the hard way that stalking dungeons without doing this gets one killed very quickly, and not by players. I don't exclusively play a thief so don't believe that they should get it easy. Not by any means. However, it is one tactic to actually be successful and is not fail-proof. Plenty of ways to counter with reveal, tracking and detect hidden. Once that happens it's usually "lol good try" Dead.

 

[Rachel Wall]

Honestly I don't see the utility of stealth on a bard. Hiding sure, it's good, you can hide without breaking provo which is godlike. But stealth????? If you move out of range the mobs will un-provo themselves, so why do you even need it?

*Shrug* it works for me. I stealth into a group of four, provo two onto each other, then walk back five squares and invis. Wait until I can provo and provo the other two and etc etc. If my hiding fails I simply cast invis on myself. I have only died when three ogre mages happen to cast FS at the same time, which is almost nill. But that's just me..