Pet Skill Loss Upon Death - Idea

[Silly Santa]

edit: Im posting this in the general discussions ... so that it gets more views by the community vs the other sub-forum... if staff deems that this should be in the other sub-forum.. I apologize + please feel free to move it.

Every time a players pet dies - the pet loses 1% of it's skills , regardless if the player is a factioneer or not. I understand that some of the pet's skills (resist + magery) are very tough to train back up, without using skill scrolls.

I know there is also the "faction" vendor that rez's faction players pets for 5k with no skill repercussions. There are players who joined factions, not for the PVP , but only so that they can rez their dead pets with no repercussions each time. I personally do not see why only factioneers are allowed to have access to an awesome perk like that.. and not "non" faction players as well.

Since there has been a lot of discussions about this by many players over the last few months and also staff asking for suggestions (I believe) - I wanted to throw an idea out there that I think is a pretty fair one.

Idea:
* Every time a players pet first dies - it enters "Skill Loss". During this time period, the players pet can only lose (for example) 1% of its skills , regardless of how many times it dies.

* Once "X" time passes.... if the players pet dies again - it enters "Skill Loss" again.. and loses (for example) another 1% of its skills.

+rinse/repeat

 

[JackPalance]

TBH- i like the faction pet rez mechanic. Of course, I am a tamer. But also, I am willing to pay when some red greases my ass and lures a paragon over to kill my pet. Do I think that they're a sociopathic asshole? Yes. Do I think that it is a part of the game that contributes to the PVM aspect of UOF? Again, yes.

 

[Silly Santa]

Looking at this from a different perspective - I don't understand why "only" factioneers receive this perk... is it to encourage "faction tamer pvp" ? I think it pushes PVMers into joining factions... so that they can receive this perk.. even though they do not want to PVP in actuality..which is why I am offering an alternative solution to this issue.

 

[JackPalance]

Yeah, I agree. The point I was trying to make is that I am willing to get waxed more often with the offest of paying some gold and not having my pets deteriorate.

 

[Silly Santa]

Yeah, I agree. The point I was trying to make is that I am willing to get waxed more often with the offest of paying some gold and not having my pets deteriorate.

No worry, I understood the point you were trying to make Looking at it from that point of view... I understand why you joined factions, so that you can pay some $$ and not have pet rez repercussions. Looking at the equation from the other side of this situation though - are you interested in PVP though? I know of at least a few people who are not interested in the PVP... and only joined factions so that they can receive this perk.

There are various ways this can be made more fairer... some of these ways will be favored more than others though.
* Eliminate pet skill loss upon death (this will never happen)
* Reduce the amount of skill points that a pet loses upon death from 1% to "X" percent
* Allow tough pet skills (ex. magery, resist) to be re-trained more easier
* Allow not only factioneers ... but non-factioneers to have access to this faction perk with allowing pets to rez for 5k with no skill loss repercussions

* The idea I mentioned in my OP.
-- Every time a players pet first dies - it enters "Skill Loss". During this time period, the players pet can only lose (for example) 1% of its skills , regardless of how many times it dies.
-- Once "X" time passes.... if the players pet dies again - it enters "Skill Loss" again.. and loses (for example) another 1% of its skills. +rinse/repeat

 

[snuggy]

how much do meta dexxers lose if they die?

 

[Silly Santa]

how much do meta dexxers lose if they die?

If you have an issue with Meta Dexxers...you should create a new thread about it. This skill class has no bearing on pet skill loss.

 

[snuggy]

If you have an issue with Meta Dexxers...you should create a new thread about it. This skill class has no bearing on pet skill loss.

If you are going to change how pet skill loss works for tamers, dexxers should be able to insure their suit and/or weapon.

 

[Silly Santa]

If you are going to change how pet skill loss works for tamers, dexxers should be able to insure their suit and/or weapon.

Ok , so make a new thread in regard to meta dexxers and make your case...this thread is not about meta dexxers and this is how threads get derailed.

 

[Bromista]

This idea will never take off because it was the reason stat loss was introduced in the first place: to keep people from throwing their pets at spawn recklessly without repercussion.

If you put a cap or a freeze on stat loss you re-create the problem.

The only way to make this work is if the pets lose effectiveness during "skill loss" time and I don't think that kind of temporary skill loss works well in conjunction with a permanent stat loss. Independently either one could be used to solve the issue if done right.

In either case there needs to be an appropriate drawback, be it permanent or temporary, to pets dying that is in direct proportion to the amount of pet death. If we tweak what we already have in place, which seems the best and easiest thing to do IMO, it just needs toned down a bit.

I say .5% upon death, half of current skill loss would be a perfect balance. You still lose permanent skills, you can still jump right back in the fight at near 100% of effectiveness of what your pets were before death, you don't necessarily fix the skills that don't train back but you do lessen the severity of the impact on those skills, and you don't need to make major changes to do it.

 

[Silly Santa]

This idea will never take off because it was the reason stat loss was introduced in the first place: to keep people from throwing their pets at spawn recklessly without repercussion.

If you put a cap or a freeze on stat loss you re-create the problem.

The only way to make this work is if the pets lose effectiveness during "skill loss" time and I don't think that kind of temporary skill loss works well in conjunction with a permanent stat loss. Independently either one could be used to solve the issue if done right.

In either case there needs to be an appropriate drawback, be it permanent or temporary, to pets dying that is in direct proportion to the amount of pet death. If we tweak what we already have in place, which seems the best and easiest thing to do IMO, it just needs toned down a bit.

I say .5% upon death, half of current skill loss would be a perfect balance. You still lose permanent skills, you can still jump right back in the fight at near 100% of effectiveness of what your pets were before death, you don't necessarily fix the skills that don't train back but you do lessen the severity of the impact on those skills, and you don't need to make major changes to do it.

I do agree that there needs to be some kind of skill loss repercussion when a pet dies. Although 0.1 was too little in the beginning.. I do think a full 1.0 is too much especially when some skills cant be re-trained easily. As you suggested though, I do think 0.5 would be a fair compromise if this approach was taken to help fix this problem for tamers.

I can see if people abused this with throwing their pets at spawn , and going afk/off screening for a while if it was at a champ spawn and at a beginning stage in the champ spawn... but were people abusing this in non-champ spawn areas?

Im still confused though why only factioneers can have access to a perk like this though... with having only their pets rez'd with no repercussions.

 

[Insane]

I say .5% upon death, half of current skill loss would be a perfect balance. You still lose permanent skills, you can still jump right back in the fight at near 100% of effectiveness of what your pets were before death, you don't necessarily fix the skills that don't train back but you do lessen the severity of the impact on those skills, and you don't need to make major changes to do it.

Up.
I love that idea.

 

[lollo]

I still think you're a bunch of bad players.

My lvl 7 meta dragon now has 800k exp and it died once. My lvl 6 Steed has 200k and it never died yet since the last re roll.

I did 6 champ spawns, 4 rdas and farmed a fuckton in shame 5

How do You guys Let your pets die often enough For 1% loss to be a problem?

 

[Bromista]

My pets die all the time. Mostly because they don't follow when recalling despite heavy spam. I can chalk up quite a few deaths up to farming with remote desktop app on my phone but that's my own stupid fault lol.

I really don't think the stat loss is that big of a deal for metas, since the re-roll and greater survivability and everything, it's more for every other pet out there where dying has a greater impact.

Anywho if people are going to take issue with stat loss, and clearly many do, I think it's important to put the best argument and suggestions forward so that's why I get involved myself. Gripe today for a better tomorrow (and also so we can hopefully put an end to these threads)

 

[Silly Santa]

I still think you're a bunch of bad players.

My lvl 7 meta dragon now has 800k exp and it died once. My lvl 6 Steed has 200k and it never died yet since the last re roll.

I did 6 champ spawns, 4 rdas and farmed a fuckton in shame 5

How do You guys Let your pets die often enough For 1% loss to be a problem?

You forgot to mention the part whereas you had 10+ eqms members + pets as well with you at these champ spawns and rdas....and another 10 people in call that were on standby.

 

[lollo]

You forgot to mention the part whereas
you had 10+ eqms members + pets as well with you at these champ spawns and rdas....and another 10 people in call that were on standby.

You forgot the part whereas during EU timezone 90% of EQMS isn't even online

 

[JackPalance]

I still think you're a bunch of bad players.

My lvl 7 meta dragon now has 800k exp and it died once. My lvl 6 Steed has 200k and it never died yet since the last re roll.

I did 6 champ spawns, 4 rdas and farmed a fuckton in shame 5

How do You guys Let your pets die often enough For 1% loss to be a problem?

It's a shame that we can't all be UO gods like yourself-

 

[Josh D]

Why don't we just make the game have zero risk? Everyone starts with maxed out level 7 dragons or spiders with unlimited pet ball charges. Everyone gets a powerscroll for just stepping into a champ spawn area (drops in bank, of course). Relics are handed out at Brit bank every Thursday morning just like methadone at the clinic. Everyone wins! No one EVER loses! We can call it Trammel!

Or we can play Ultima Online where the risks are great, but so are the rewards.

Its 1% skill loss for making a mistake or taking a chance, and you'll get it back eventually (meta pets roll over, everything else can be trained in a few hours). The alternative to this (since that sting is too tough for some people) is to join factions. Yes, factions increases the risks (pvp) and the rewards (faction bonuses), but your pet will always be maxed out. They changed the meta steed by lowering the exp needed for a rollover, which was the only change needed.

The problem, as I see it in UO is people not wanting to take risks (after they've been burned a few times), but suffer nothing for the failed attempts. This isn't the game for that. You need risks, punishments for failed risk assessment need to stay a part of the game, and you need to group up if you want to take on those risks and mitigate the negative effects.

 

[Bromista]

I dunno I think for certain people it's a lot to do with numbers. I don't think they mind the risk, well ok some do you are right, they just want it to be easier to get back to those perfect numbers. They're the same people that gotta have higher stats. Skills do matter more than stats and I think because of that you hear more about it. Not to mention stats are a choice you make but also because there's this automatic assumption that you must have high stats so it doesn't warrant discussion. When it comes down to it stats make a fraction of a point of difference when it comes to fire breath and such but people still seem to imagine there's a factor there that's greater than the stat values themselves. You should always look for high stats but I gotta tell ya as a person who has used and sold a lot of pets...I just don't get the obsession...but I'll keep selling this stuff to you guys for lots of gold NP, meet skara?

As far as metas are concerned the relics make the meta. Above GM wrestle is damn nice too and it retrains in fifteen seconds. It's pretty hard to complain about a meta really. I just rolled over with less than 70 resist on mine and it still served me prettttttttttttty well, magery never dropped low enough to lose flamestrike sooo what's up

 

[lollo]

pretty hard to complain about a meta really. I just rolled over with less than 70 resist on mine and it still served me prettttttttttttty well, magery never dropped low enough to lose flamestrike sooo what's up

That's like 40-50 deaths lol how did that happen?????