Nerf Tamers

[Bunnky]

This thread is traveling down that rabbit hole pretty quickly.

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[Messremb]

Oh man you guys are so right, I am so tired of my tamer perks. I mean ya the 100k an hour for just being logged in is nice, but I get so sick of making 1 mil gold check and locking them down at my house. im using up all my storage. also the insata kill pk option makes the game less fun for me cause I like a little PVP. also, lets not forget the numerous PSs I get for just showing up at champ spawns....

seriously if your a PK and haven't figured out how to kill a tamer your just bad. even PVP tamers are easy to kill, was nobody watching flube fight azria's PVP tamer the other day? learn to use para, and Energy vortex, not that hard. also any time a tamer is fighting spawn they are sitting ducks, just got to keep them from recalling and you get free loot.

the only thing I can agree with in this thread is the randomizing on the Rare pets.

 

[K A Z]

I am not the type to take advantage of flawed systems, maybe its my nature. Because of that I do not have a fisherman nor a tamer. Both of these are overly developed on this shard. I mean when was the last time they balanced these professions?

Maybe I should jump on the bandwagon with the rest of ya, but again, I don't think that's in my nature either.

As a side note (and to @K A Z ) --> Where the hell are all the trap houses? Around brit, the only one I know of is my own Skeleton Crew house and the way that the mechanics work, you pretty much need to be a owner/friend/co-owner of the house to even trap pets. Too many griefing features that contribute to the overall feel of UO have been disabled on this shard. smh

my tower right next to trixa's lib has one.. I also have access to 2-3 other pet traps around Brit. The problem is that charges are just freaking cheap. There should come a pet skilloss along with balling your pet. 25-30% - would be good. You're not supposed to take your Pets out to PVP, never. If you do, you should risk something.

 

[halygon]

my tower right next to trixa's lib has one.. I also have access to 2-3 other pet traps around Brit. The problem is that charges are just freaking cheap. There should come a pet skilloss along with balling your pet. 25-30% - would be good. You're not supposed to take your Pets out to PVP, never. If you do, you should risk something.

Well I don't care if they ball it --> I still costed them some dono coins, which makes it worth it to me. If it was tamed, its gonna be dead. If it was bonded, its gonna be dead and trapped.

 

[halygon]

Oh man you guys are so right, I am so tired of my tamer perks. I mean ya the 100k an hour for just being logged in is nice, but I get so sick of making 1 mil gold check and locking them down at my house. im using up all my storage. also the insta kill pk option makes the game less fun for me cause I like a little PVP. also, lets not forget the numerous PSs I get for just showing up at champ spawns....
.

I know you are exaggerating here, but you are exaggerating on truths.

• 100k an hour by letting your pets do everything > Truth
• Using up all your storage from loot > Probably Truth
• Insta-Kill PK > True if the PK doesn't know how to deal with tamers. Dragbreaths + fs can do some big damage all at once.
• Numerous PSs for just showing up at champ spawn > Truth

There is no doubt that on this shard, almost ALL the perks going to Tamers and Fishermen.

Us crafters have BoDs but they are really hit or miss. I might get lucky for one 6-hour period and get a 300k BoD --> but if you do the math, you tamers would have 600k at that point. If you tame rare pets during this time, you can make much more than this.

Melee's get slayer weapons (and if they have a tamer and are rich --> slayer armor). Pretty good $$ can be made this way, but it takes much more effort than a tamer and definitely cannot solo balrons or equivalents.

Provo's are restricted to requiring two mobs at once and if there is a screen full of mobs like at a champ --> that's alot of work to keep them fighting each other.

 

[Bromista]

I know you are exaggerating here, but you are exaggerating on truths.

• 100k an hour by letting your pets do everything > Truth
• Using up all your storage from loot > Probably Truth
• Insta-Kill PK > True if the PK doesn't know how to deal with tamers. Dragbreaths + fs can do some big damage all at once.
• Numerous PSs for just showing up at champ spawn > Truth

There is no doubt that on this shard, almost ALL the perks going to Tamers and Fishermen.

Us crafters have BoDs but they are really hit or miss. I might get lucky for one 6-hour period and get a 300k BoD --> but if you do the math, you tamers would have 600k at that point. If you tame rare pets during this time, you can make much more than this.

Melee's get slayer weapons (and if they have a tamer and are rich --> slayer armor). Pretty good $$ can be made this way, but it takes much more effort than a tamer and definitely cannot solo balrons or equivalents.

Provo's are restricted to requiring two mobs at once and if there is a screen full of mobs like at a champ --> that's alot of work to keep them fighting each other.

Just a couple quick points:

BODs require about 0 time investment so it's basically straight profit and cannot be compared to, well, basically any other means of monetary gain in the game. They are a beast of their own.

Dexers don't necessarily have to be be super rich or have tamers to acquire goodies like slayers/slayer armor, although it sure does help. With the proper equipment dexers can kill balrons/wyrms...and even without slayer armor (but again it sure does help)

Course there is a bit more to making money with pets at champs/by farming than most people think. Knowing what to kill and when/where to kill it are major factors in both aspects even if execution is generally a mindless task.

 

[Liberty]

I want to see a timed video of a tamer who claims to make 100k an hour in action...

 

[Messremb]

I know you are exaggerating here, but you are exaggerating on truths.

• 100k an hour by letting your pets do everything > Truth
• Using up all your storage from loot > Probably Truth
• Insta-Kill PK > True if the PK doesn't know how to deal with tamers. Dragbreaths + fs can do some big damage all at once.
• Numerous PSs for just showing up at champ spawn > Truth

There is no doubt that on this shard, almost ALL the perks going to Tamers and Fishermen.

Us crafters have BoDs but they are really hit or miss. I might get lucky for one 6-hour period and get a 300k BoD --> but if you do the math, you tamers would have 600k at that point. If you tame rare pets during this time, you can make much more than this.

Melee's get slayer weapons (and if they have a tamer and are rich --> slayer armor). Pretty good $$ can be made this way, but it takes much more effort than a tamer and definitely cannot solo balrons or equivalents.

Provo's are restricted to requiring two mobs at once and if there is a screen full of mobs like at a champ --> that's alot of work to keep them fighting each other.

sorry halygon but most of this shows your ignorance of tamers here.

100k and hour is a rare occurrence for a tamer, most times the hourly income is more like 50-70k and that's while working hard, you don't just all kill and sit back. yes its the highest hourly income for farming char but its the hardest farming char to make. it takes like 12 hours to make and archer bard and make almost as much. (also the only tamers that can do this are PVM tamers that are easy as pie to kill.)

My loot comes mostly from fishing and treasure hunting not farming on my tamer, I get 100 times more items that way.

insta kill is a rare thing and only happens if my pets are not in combat. also my FS average 17 damage on a character with resist. any decent PK can kill my tamer in under 10 seconds easy.

and tamers are the worst champ spawn character at this point. look at the boards next time. top players are dexers, followed by archer bards and then tamers. trust me I have tried it out. I made a champ dexer and beat everybody by about 20k points and worked no harder than I do on my tamer.

tamers are the best PVM build I think we can all agree on that, but they are not OP any archer bard can make almost as much in the same amount of time.

Fishing is the most boring and time consuming way to make money but yes the reward is great, but so is treasure hunting and using and archer bard. the system is balanced.

I think there are some issues with crafters for sure but your claim of 600k to your 300k is apples and oranges, what were you doing for those 6 hours? crafting? that's right you didn't have to do anything and got a free 300k BOD. not the same as having to farm for 6 hours.

and think about this regarding pet trapping. a tamer with 2 pet balls has paid 600k for those balls, and 20k per charge, if they die and you trap their pets they lose 40k to get them back. that's more than any PK has to pay for one death now. seems pretty fair to me.

 

[Nanashi]

Here we go again, another complaint, another change or buff to the server. Honestly a poll should be made before any change. Some people like it, others don't. Others don't care and would rather play the game as is. I'm the third option, please leave this alone and move on before we go back and forth complaints to a change or no change.

 

[Liberty]

We are just having a simple discussion on tamers....

 

[K A Z]

Well I don't care if they ball it --> I still costed them some dono coins, which makes it worth it to me. If it was tamed, its gonna be dead. If it was bonded, its gonna be dead and trapped.

i'm not quite sure if its 100 dono coins per 1 charge or 100 dono coins per 10 charge. I think it's the latter, which basicly means that it's for free. You know that something is wrong when you lure and trap somebodies pets (2 pets) 5x in a row and he still doesn't care and brings them back out.

 

[Messremb]

i'm not quite sure if its 100 dono coins per 1 charge or 100 dono coins per 10 charge. I think it's the latter, which basicly means that it's for free. You know that something is wrong when you lure and trap somebodies pets (2 pets) 5x in a row and he still doesn't care and brings them back out.

it 100 per charge, and for 2 pets that's 40k when was the last time you paid 40k for your head back?

 

[K A Z]

it 100 per charge, and for 2 pets that's 40k when was the last time you paid 40k for your head back?

When was the last time my character spit 35 dmg firebreaths followed by a flamestrike? It's not like it takes atleast a tiny bit of skill to play a Tamer on UOF with the perma-broken all guard me function.

 

[Messremb]

When was the last time my character spit 35 dmg firebreaths followed by a flamestrike? It's not like it takes atleast a tiny bit of skill to play a Tamer on UOF with the perma-broken all guard me function.

like I said, para the dragon drop EV by tamer, job done... and 35 must be some random number you pulled out of your ass.

dragon FB is 40-41, mare is 25-26. max FB damage is 67 damage, and the tamer must be on the ground for this (also they rarely both FB at the same time), if you have a str pot that's only slightly more than half your life. then the FS, 17-40 damage. worst case your looking at 107 damge leaving you 13 life to pot and run. then come back now that the FB is spent. tamers are weak sauce you PKs are just to lazy to try anything other than target closest blue.

also all guard sucks if there is even one MOB on the screen. if tamers are so OP in PVP make one and prove it. I have yet to see a PVP tamer that I thought was OP.

and your PVPer spits 60-70 damage exp EB combo followed by a 20 damage pot. seems more OP to me.

 

[halygon]

Obviously my comments were slightly tongue-in-cheek, but so you don't think that I am trying to back track, and as "ignorant of tamers" as I am, I will follow up with your comments:

100k and hour is a rare occurrence for a tamer, most times the hourly income is more like 50-70k and that's while working hard, you don't just all kill and sit back. yes its the highest hourly income for farming char but its the hardest farming char to make. it takes like 12 hours to make and archer bard and make almost as much. (also the only tamers that can do this are PVM tamers that are easy as pie to kill.)

So my comment here was that tamers can get 100k an hour by letting their pets do all the kills. This is obviously true, regardless whether it is the norm or not. Hell I can make 100k/hr with my pvm dexxor, but its a helluva lot more work. I don't feel that the "its hard to make a tamer so I should have perks for life" comment really applies. Yes its hard to train a GM or GM+ tamer, but that shouldn't entitle you to a life time of riches. It entitles you to be able to use the taming skill on higher end mobs.

My loot comes mostly from fishing and treasure hunting not farming on my tamer, I get 100 times more items that way.

I already stated that fishing fits in with the taming group as far as OP perks go, but again when you are farming with your pets, you have the ability to pull in some major loot along with the gold. So I believe my comment stays true here too.

insta kill is a rare thing and only happens if my pets are not in combat. also my FS average 17 damage on a character with resist. any decent PK can kill my tamer in under 10 seconds easy.

Insta kill is really a bad term for it -- in reality it is "kill really fast". It is more than possible for a 7x dragon to take down a player in only a couple of seconds. Dragonbreath plus fs plus melee damage = death. Anyways my conditional here was that the PK would die easily if they don't know how to deal with tamers. But let me put it this way since you die in under 10seconds to PKs. If you took a PK and a equally PvP skilled Tamer with 7x pets. Who do you think will win that fight? Almost always the tamer, hands down.

and tamers are the worst champ spawn character at this point. look at the boards next time. top players are dexers, followed by archer bards and then tamers. trust me I have tried it out. I made a champ dexer and beat everybody by about 20k points and worked no harder than I do on my tamer.

Regardless of if they are better or not at champ spawns than other templates -- it is still easily possible to farm up champ spawn points pretty easily with a tamer. When it gets to the end, you need to watch your pets to keep them from being overrun. But to do the exact same amount of damage or more as the archer provos do, it takes much more actual work to get those PSs. That's my point.

I think there are some issues with crafters for sure but your claim of 600k to your 300k is apples and oranges, what were you doing for those 6 hours? crafting? that's right you didn't have to do anything and got a free 300k BOD. not the same as having to farm for 6 hours.

So I think you are right here. These are apples and oranges -- to a degree. See crafters can only craft and manage their vendors. They do not have the ability to farm so in reality, their money making potential is mostly situated with the BoD system. No work really to get one, but there is work in completing them (and cost depending on how high end it is). 300k is if ya *are lucky* and *if you can sell* the BoD. Both of these are very low on the chance scale. Tamers have the abillity to farm 600k in 6 hours, crafters don't unless they get lucky.

 

[Messremb]

Obviously my comments were slightly tongue-in-cheek, but so you don't think that I am trying to back track, and as "ignorant of tamers" as I am, I will follow up with your comments:


So my comment here was that tamers can get 100k an hour by letting their pets do all the kills. This is obviously true, regardless whether it is the norm or not. Hell I can make 100k/hr with my pvm dexxor, but its a helluva lot more work. I don't feel that the "its hard to make a tamer so I should have perks for life" comment really applies. Yes its hard to train a GM or GM+ tamer, but that shouldn't entitle you to a life time of riches. It entitles you to be able to use the taming skill on higher end mobs.

I say again, average hourly income for a Provo tamer (the best PVM build) is about 50-70k. outliers like 100k and 10k are not norm and should not be used to determine income. and yes for your hard work your char should be the best PVM build. should you get free stuff... no and they don't. they still have to work for their gold just like you.

I already stated that fishing fits in with the taming group as far as OP perks go, but again when you are farming with your pets, you have the ability to pull in some major loot along with the gold. So I believe my comment stays true here too.

fishing income is not what you think. it takes hours of fishing to get MIBs and then hours more to pull them up. its a lot of work but yes there is good reward. the only reason one could argue it is OP is the lack of PKs, but even that's not true any longer.

Insta kill is really a bad term for it -- in reality it is "kill really fast". It is more than possible for a 7x dragon to take down a player in only a couple of seconds. Dragonbreath plus fs plus melee damage = death. Anyways my conditional here was that the PK would die easily if they don't know how to deal with tamers. But let me put it this way since you die in under 10seconds to PKs. If you took a PK and a equally PvP skilled Tamer with 7x pets. Who do you think will win that fight? Almost always the tamer, hands down.

Go watch flubes fight with Azria's PVP tamer. flube on a heal mage wins the fight against a very skilled PVPer on what I am assuming is a 5x PVP tamer. just cause noobs die to tamers does not make them OP in PVP. even PVP tamers are weaker than a decent PVPer.

Regardless of if they are better or not at champ spawns than other templates -- it is still easily possible to farm up champ spawn points pretty easily with a tamer. When it gets to the end, you need to watch your pets to keep them from being overrun. But to do the exact same amount of damage or more as the archer provos do, it takes much more actual work to get those PSs. That's my point.

An archer just needs to follow a tamer with a target closest grey macro to get more points than a tamer. trust me I dual client champs like that all the time, and my archer always scores higher than my tamer who I was actually playing. and dexers are super easy, just follow the tamers and attack the MOBs on their pets. super easy. I have done enough champs to know that tamers get the shaft at champ spawns.

So I think you are right here. These are apples and oranges -- to a degree. See crafters can only craft and manage their vendors. They do not have the ability to farm so in reality, their money making potential is mostly situated with the BoD system. No work really to get one, but there is work in completing them (and cost depending on how high end it is). 300k is if ya *are lucky* and *if you can sell* the BoD. Both of these are very low on the chance scale. Tamers have the abillity to farm 600k in 6 hours, crafters don't unless they get lucky.

Wrong, as I said a Tamer is lucky to get half that in 6 hours and they have to be working at it the whole time.

there is no imbalance with tamers. just people who don't have them thinking they know what they are talking about.

 

[halygon]

I say again, averag...

...

...there is no imbalance with tamers. just people who don't have them thinking they know what they are talking about.

I think you are taking this too seriously. If you put in hard work, you will get rewarded for it. That's how it works for any template (*cough* except crafters). The point I have made over and over, is not that because you are tamer you are OP, rich, and have castles full of gold. My point is that it is much easier for a tamer to acquire these things than it is for a non-tamer. There are exceptions to every rule, but in general, my comments are spot on (if not slightly cheeky).

There is an imbalance to ALL tamers on EVERY UO shard ever made, including old school non-EA OSI. This isn't something you should argue against. What is important to note is how UOF embellishes and promotes taming above other player skills. When you look over the past year and the boosts and nerfs that have been dealt out. How many boosts do you see for Tamers vs the Nerfs? I will tell you now that there are very few nerfs. The general comment on this, for nearly any forum thread, is because its so difficult for tamers to train, that they are provided bonuses for their hard work.

 

[Bromista]

I want to see a timed video of a tamer who claims to make 100k an hour in action...

I can make about 150-250k an hour (factoring in skill scrolls, reg bags, weapons/armor, rare drops, and gold)

Of course when I farm I go balls out and dual client tamers for maximum productivity.

 

[Liberty]

I can make about 150-250k an hour (factoring in skill scrolls, reg bags, weapons/armor, rare drops, and gold)

Of course when I farm I go balls out and dual client tamers for maximum productivity.

I don't count the extra stuff..just gold.

 

[DragonxBC]

nerf tamers! its too over powered they are so evil they kill murderers too often!