My Views (PvP changes and the growth of UO:F)

[Winstonian]

TL;DR: a cry post about explo pots.

God did I miss these, I hope it's the first step towards a 2014 UOF renaissance

You guys can think that suggesting balancing and build diversity is 'crying'. Players will continue to see the bland state of PvP and choose not to play here.

 

[Winstonian]

Yeah it's a triple post fuck that: everything went downhill after EQMS and $ got banned. So basically the guilds that everyone appointed as toxic were the ones keeping the server healthy. Try to dispute this.

This is absurd. EQMS would've just organized different spells to cast and would've remained exactly what they were. To pretend like they couldn't have adapted to this is nonsense.

 

[lollo]

You guys can think that suggesting balancing and build diversity is 'crying'. Players will continue to see the bland state of PvP and choose not to play here.

Actually there were A LOT more people pvping when the system was "vanilla".

The scarcity of pvp on UOF has jack shit to do with build diversity and more to do with people's fragile egos and crappy changes like militia

 

[lollo]

This is absurd. EQMS would've just organized different spells to cast and would've remained exactly what they were. To pretend like they couldn't have adapted to this is nonsense.

where did I say they couldn't have adapted?????? The leaders got perma banned and that was it. Nothing to do with pvp changes

 

[Winstonian]

where did I say they couldn't have adapted?????? The leaders got perma banned and that was it. Nothing to do with pvp changes

Yeah, my bad. I misunderstood your triple post.

 

[Winstonian]

Actually there were A LOT more people pvping when the system was "vanilla".

Please explain what you mean about the vanilla system.

 

[K A Z]

stat loss is already pretty tame on this server, there's really no need to change anything. Just build more PKs and you'll never be unable to play one. Making a 7x gm char on this server is so easy and cheap there's really no reason NOT to have 6+ pks if that's your play style. We also have no-cut area around brit, yet I don't see all that many reds there

I disagree. Trammies get statlossed and made fun off "OMFG I STATLOSSED YOUR RED LAWL" --> they get discouraged --> they wont log back on their red for another 2 weeks..

remove OVERLAND statloss, bring back IDOCS, let's have big FIGHTS and don't listen to Winstonian (he has no clue)

 

[Winstonian]

I disagree. Trammies get statlossed and made fun off "OMFG I STATLOSSED YOUR RED LAWL" --> they get discouraged --> they wont log back on their red for another 2 weeks..

remove OVERLAND statloss, bring back IDOCS, let's have big FIGHTS and don't listen to Winstonian (he has no clue)

It's not just me: many new players come here, see how boring the PvP is and leave.

Again, I don't really care. I have plenty of games to play. If they want this shard to grow, keeping a PvP system that very few actually enjoy - and that's nothing like it was before - isn't a good strategy.

 

[lollo]

It's not just me: many new players come here, see how boring the PvP is and leave.

keeping a PvP system that very few actually enjoy - and that's nothing like it was before - isn't a good strategy.

I guess we can all agree on that.

By "vanilla" I mean old school like it was in the beginning (UO:R style). Before they messed with spell damage and timings, before they removed factions, before they banned half the pvpers on the server etc.

As I said, everyone was crying about EQMS and $, but at least people were playing. By banning the leaders of EQMS and basically blackmailing the leaders of $, staff lost a HUGE parte of the active population. Now champs are uncontested, everyone can make millions in no time because there are no PKs (no decent ones at least) and there is hardly and pvp.

But hey, now we have 2908437493 different "rares" and hues dropping every week and the game looks nothing like it was supposed to.

 

[Winstonian]

I guess we can all agree on that.

By "vanilla" I mean old school like it was in the beginning (UO:R style). Before they messed with spell damage and timings, before they removed factions, before they banned half the pvpers on the server etc.

As I said, everyone was crying about EQMS and $, but at least people were playing. By banning the leaders of EQMS and basically blackmailing the leaders of $, staff lost a HUGE parte of the active population. Now champs are uncontested, everyone can make millions in no time because there are no PKs (no decent ones at least) and there is hardly and pvp.

But hey, now we have 2908437493 different "rares" and hues dropping every week and the game looks nothing like it was supposed to.

Sounds absolutely true.

It's my opinion that UO cannot thrive without an active PvP scene, not only from the 'hardcore' but from the casual players as well. The hardcore bring the quality, but the casual bring quantity. Both are needed for UO in 2019 to survive.

I get it: the hardcore don't want to hear input from the casuals. "Who are you", "what guild are you with", "adapt or stfu" are all common responses. If the hardcore want more casuals to kill, they might want to consider listening to what the casuals have to say.

 

[Winstonian]

I know the hardcore will scoff, but I guarantee that three changes would significantly and drastically grow PvP (and, in turn, UO:F):

1. consult a group of established PvPers about spell damage, timing, factions/militia,
2. balance the available skills to remove the meta mage build and provide other equally competitive options,
3. create a PvP incentive-based reward system that rewards all PvPers for damage done over a set period of time (likely one week, capped per target, cannot be gained in a house).

Number 3 isn't anything groundbreaking: most modern games have something like this in place. Add attractive rewards to simply going out and throwing damage around. (Using damage done as the standard will give power to the solo players, as they can still earn towards rewards without having a numbers advantage.)

I'd love to reasonably discuss this suggestion, as I'm certain that it would help things here.

 

[eric_azria]

I know the hardcore will scoff, but I guarantee that three changes would significantly and drastically grow PvP (and, in turn, UO:F):

1. consult a group of established PvPers about spell damage, timing, factions/militia,
2. balance the available skills to remove the meta mage build and provide other equally competitive options,
3. create a PvP incentive-based reward system that rewards all PvPers for damage done over a set period of time (likely one week, capped per target, cannot be gained in a house).

Number 3 isn't anything groundbreaking: most modern games have something like this in place. Add attractive rewards to simply going out and throwing damage around. (Using damage done as the standard will give power to the solo players, as they can still earn towards rewards without having a numbers advantage.)

I'd love to reasonably discuss this suggestion, as I'm certain that it would help things here.

What exactly are you discussing? How to bring up the same topics that have been pounded into non-existence for 7 years?

Get a grip. These guys don’t care about pvp.

 

[Blackmartin]

Yeah it's a triple post fuck that: everything went downhill after EQMS and $ got banned. So basically the guilds that everyone appointed as toxic were the ones keeping the server healthy. Try to dispute this.

I’m super out of the loop but used to play with you, Cinderella, and a few others doing PvM stuff with EQMS. What happened to cause both guilds to get banned?

(I wasn’t playing much when the system converted to militias)

 

[lollo]

I’m super out of the loop but used to play with you, Cinderella, and a few others doing PvM stuff with EQMS. What happened to cause both guilds to get banned?

(I wasn’t playing much when the system converted to militias)

to cut a long story short:

EQMS was too dominant and some of the members were considered "toxic" (like who cares? it's the internet, fucking crybabies). Glutt and a few other "higher ups" were banned and the guild fell apart.

$ started dominating and becoming toxic after staff got rid of EQMS for them, their alliance with POWER got them into griefing player at an event, shane got mad and told them to stop of they would all get banned. Bobby said fuck you and quit, and most of $ followed him to that other POS of a server.

 

[lollo]

TL;DR: you shouldn't ban/blackmail the most active guilds on your server, even if some of them were "toxic", whatever that means.

 

[Blackmartin]

TL;DR: you shouldn't ban/blackmail the most active guilds on your server, even if some of them were "toxic", whatever that means.

Yeah I’m not really sure how it can be considered toxic to gank players on a Felucia shard, no matter how many people are involved.

Perhaps they should add a trammel area to host events / champ spawns only (no normal mobs).

 

[parsnip]

Yeah I’m not really sure how it can be considered toxic to gank players on a Felucia shard, no matter how many people are involved.

Perhaps they should add a trammel area to host events / champ spawns only (no normal mobs).

I don't want to de-rail the actual PvP discussions as I think they are valuable... but I feel I must point out that the toxicity in that era went way beyond ganking players (two examples being IRL attacks and doxxing). Had it remained simply in-game PvP with some trash talking, we could have avoided a lot of the subsequent drama.

 

[Tyrhylinn]

I played UO for a long time, witnessed the introduction of Trammel and then stopped a few years later because of RL.

I only played PVP. In the end I tried to dominate with a "knife" dexxer (it even worked partially). There was no game that had such a sophisticated PVP system as UO (oh, yes: SWG). All other MMORPGs were more a rock-paper-scissors-pvp, one-hit-wonder-PVP, etc.
Nice graphics but boring.

Why was UO so interesting:
It usually depended on the player. It was tactically very sophisticated.

Poisoning
Poison should not be 'uber', but had a tactical benefit: disrupting the opponent's processes in order to gain the upper hand, the initiative in the fight.
I can not understand why UOF should implement a poison that should not be curable by pots. Looks more like boring PvP to me:
Step 1: Poison opponent
Step 2: wait.
Step 3: loot corpse

allowing arrows to be shot while moving
Balance is the key to an interesting PvP. How can I, as a Dexxer, get close to an archer if he can run away and also shoot me?
I can play WoW right away: rock-scissors-paper-PvP. Lame & boring.

If changed that way, this should be a new skill (mongolian archery ), because then another skill has to be skipped. But I'm actually against such a change.

struck by 10 e-bolts at once
Well .. good team play. Annoying, but .. good team play.
BTW: Can you pre-cast spells at UOF?
If so, then you should cnsider to skip pre-casts mechanism. At least I have a chance to get away ...



The art of an appealing PvP system is not to create FOTM PvP, but to challenge the player. The better one should win. The one who knows to play his character better.

my 2 cents

 

[Winstonian]

Poisoning
Poison should not be 'uber', but had a tactical benefit: disrupting the opponent's processes in order to gain the upper hand, the initiative in the fight.
I can not understand why UOF should implement a poison that should not be curable by pots. Looks more like boring PvP to me:
Step 1: Poison opponent
Step 2: wait.
Step 3: loot corpse

This ignores that both bandages and the cure spell would successfully cure the poison, and potions would only have an *increased* chance to fail. (Or 100% cure chance with GM Alchemy.)

allowing arrows to be shot while moving

Balance is the key to an interesting PvP. How can I, as a Dexxer, get close to an archer if he can run away and also shoot me?
I can play WoW right away: rock-scissors-paper-PvP. Lame & boring.

If changed that way, this should be a new skill (mongolian archery ), because then another skill has to be skipped. But I'm actually against such a change.

Conversely, how can an archer kill you, a dexxer, if he has to stand still to try and deal damage to you? It isn't effective, which is why archers aren't commonly seen in PvP.

Have a damage or accuracy reduction to arrows shot while moving. Something. Something to make archery considerably more viable, which it should be.