Meta bard

Karl Sagan

Karl Sagan

Grandmaster
If warriors and tamers get it, bards should too!

Level up a talisman or special instrument and be able to farm these new dungeons and rdas etc. Obviously not as powerful as a tamer with meta pets, but at least let the non-tamers play.

A couple meta classes working together would be formidable!
 
halygon

halygon

Grandmaster
Karl Sagan said:
If warriors and tamers get it, bards should too!

Level up a talisman or special instrument and be able to farm these new dungeons and rdas etc. Obviously not as powerful as a tamer with meta pets, but at least let the non-tamers play.

A couple meta classes working together would be formidable!
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I think the point of the meta talismans are to give love to the classes that are not already OP.
 
Karl Sagan

Karl Sagan

Grandmaster
halygon said:
I think the point of the meta talismans are to give love to the classes that are not already OP.
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Ah yes the poor underpowered tamers...verily, they needed a buff...and the dexxers getting top spots on every champ...*cries*

Rdas, asylum, new mobs...all are untouchable unless you are rolling a strong tamer build. OP vs ettins and shit doesn't equate to OP at all levels.

Give us some options. A meta bard would not be a bard/warrior uoforever. They would have to roll with a tamer or warrior to be effective.
 
halygon

halygon

Grandmaster
Karl Sagan said:
Ah yes the poor underpowered tamers...verily, they needed a buff...and the dexxers getting top spots on every champ...*cries*

Rdas, asylum, new mobs...all are untouchable unless you are rolling a strong tamer build. OP vs ettins and shit doesn't equate to OP at all levels.

Give us some options. A meta bard would not be a bard/warrior uoforever. They would have to roll with a tamer or warrior to be effective.
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While a pure bard would be somewhat underpowered, I don't think that is what you would like to use - but correct me on this.

A mage bard, dexxer bard, or tamer bard are all very high up there on the best PVM templates to have. Actually those are the top PvM templates to have currently. Provocation is so strong on UOF that you can easily solo twin balrons with any of those three bard templates - they are hardly ettins.

Those high point dexxors at champs? Almost all bard archers or bard dexxers.

I think we will need a bit stronger argument that what has been provided so far.

As always, I am open to any suggestions as long as they are well founded -- and I know the dev staff is also.
 
kurtis

kurtis

Grandmaster
Karl Sagan said:
If warriors and tamers get it, bards should too!

Level up a talisman or special instrument and be able to farm these new dungeons and rdas etc. Obviously not as powerful as a tamer with meta pets, but at least let the non-tamers play.

A couple meta classes working together would be formidable!
Click to expand...

I'm not necessarily against your idea, but I think the fact that they didn't allow dexxer meta talisman to be used in conjunction with musicianship speaks to the Admins' belief that Provocation is powerful enough as is.
 
asics

asics

Grandmaster
halygon said:
While a pure bard would be somewhat underpowered, I don't think that is what you would like to use - but correct me on this.

A mage bard, dexxer bard, or tamer bard are all very high up there on the best PVM templates to have. Actually those are the top PvM templates to have currently. Provocation is so strong on UOF that you can easily solo twin balrons with any of those three bard templates - they are hardly ettins.

Those high point dexxors at champs? Almost all bard archers or bard dexxers.

I think we will need a bit stronger argument that what has been provided so far.

As always, I am open to any suggestions as long as they are well founded -- and I know the dev staff is also.
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maybe a provo tamer with talysman will be overpowered, btw dexxers with hiding\archer\sword are already top damage of every champ spawn ( i remember Sketeg or Agreyan )

maybe you cannot use TALISMAN if sum taming+music>101 and you cannot use if you have a meta? this can let Talisman used by

- provo mage
- provo dexxer
- provo tamer without metapets


what you think about this?
 
Karl Sagan

Karl Sagan

Grandmaster
halygon said:
While a pure bard would be somewhat underpowered, I don't think that is what you would like to use - but correct me on this.

A mage bard, dexxer bard, or tamer bard are all very high up there on the best PVM templates to have. Actually those are the top PvM templates to have currently. Provocation is so strong on UOF that you can easily solo twin balrons with any of those three bard templates - they are hardly ettins.

Those high point dexxors at champs? Almost all bard archers or bard dexxers.

I think we will need a bit stronger argument that what has been provided so far.

As always, I am open to any suggestions as long as they are well founded -- and I know the dev staff is also.
Click to expand...

I would propose allowing anything except taming or weapons skills.

Mage bard is by far the least powerful of the three bard variants you listed. High end mobs dispel summons. Tamer bard has pets, Dex bard has big damage output and slayer weapons. If it's an archer they can put out a lot of damage while staying out of range.

As it sits, bards lose effectiveness completely on high end mobs. All I am asking is to be able to participate in RDAs, asylum, and high end mobs without having to have a tamer. I don't expect a bard would be as powerful as a tamer or have the damage output of a warrior.

Bring some variety to pvm endgame.
 
Karl Sagan

Karl Sagan

Grandmaster
kurtis said:
I'm not necessarily against your idea, but I think the fact that they didn't allow dexxer meta talisman to be used in conjunction with musicianship speaks to the Admins' belief that Provocation is powerful enough as is.
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I agree that a bard with Dex talisman, or a Dex with bard talisman would be OP. But if you can only be bard or dex then I think it would be relatively easy to keep a balance among meta classes.

Bard abilities could be things like:

Rage: target of provo becomes enraged and does additional damage.

Frenzy: target of provo will aggro multiple mobs in the proximity

Mind Control: briefly control provo target as if it were a pet

Cripple: target of discord moves and attacks slowly

Befriend: target of peacemake will not attack bard until damaged

AoE effects would be interesting also.
 
asics

asics

Grandmaster
Karl Sagan said:
I agree that a bard with Dex talisman, or a Dex with bard talisman would be OP. But if you can only be bard or dex then I think it would be relatively easy to keep a balance among meta classes.

Bard abilities could be things like:

Rage: target of provo becomes enraged and does additional damage.

Frenzy: target of provo will aggro multiple mobs in the proximity

Mind Control: briefly control provo target as if it were a pet

Cripple: target of discord moves and attacks slowly

Befriend: target of peacemake will not attack bard until damaged

AoE effects would be interesting also.
Click to expand...

like this, maybe we can get some bard
Karl Sagan said:
Correct. Dex talisman is only for non bards and non tamers.
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maybe if the meta dexxers are too strong..for bards maybe bards could get some of this?
 
Messremb

Messremb

Grandmaster
Karl Sagan said:
As it sits, bards lose effectiveness completely on high end mobs. All I am asking is to be able to participate in RDAs, asylum, and high end mobs without having to have a tamer. I don't expect a bard would be as powerful as a tamer or have the damage output of a warrior.

Bring some variety to pvm endgame.
Click to expand...

Tamers are so nerfed I have given up using mine for anything other than T-maps. with pet stat loss the way it is, anyone using anything other than throw away pets for RDAs is an idiot. your pet will have less RS than a mongbat by the time a single RDA is finished. I roll a stealth archer with 120 mining and I rock every champ\event\RDA I go to. I risk a few hundred arrows and a GM bow and I have never been less than top 20 at anything I have participated in. im usually top 5 at least if I was there the whole time. the only thing tamers still have a chance at is invasions, and even there dexers\archers will give them a good fight (unless your @bradley- who is cheating and getting double points some how ;).)

also @halygon bards are good at crowd control but suck at racking up score points, they only get like 10% or 25% score on provo mobs and the mobs die to fast to that to really rack up. a plain dexer will out damage any provo dexer at any event.

archers are the way to go these days. almost no risk, takes less than a day to train, and will kick ass at any scoring event, and now they get a bump with crazy meta skills.


all this is to say while I disagree with some of your reasons I think meta bards is a great idea. I would love to see peace and disco fixed, and meta lutes added. my only concern is that a provo mage is one of the safest builds to pvm with as they are hardly disadvantaged in PVP, and pretty good at pvm. I think any meta bards should require all 3 bard skills that way they can only be a 3x mage bard, and not a 5x mage bard.
 
halygon

halygon

Grandmaster
Messremb said:
Tamers are so nerfed I have given up using mine for anything other than T-maps. with pet stat loss the way it is, anyone using anything other than throw away pets for RDAs is an idiot. your pet will have less RS than a mongbat by the time a single RDA is finished. I roll a stealth archer with 120 mining and I rock every champ\event\RDA I go to. I risk a few hundred arrows and a GM bow and I have never been less than top 20 at anything I have participated in. im usually top 5 at least if I was there the whole time. the only thing tamers still have a chance at is invasions, and even there dexers\archers will give them a good fight (unless your @bradley- who is cheating and getting double points some how ;).)

also @halygon bards are good at crowd control but suck at racking up score points, they only get like 10% or 25% score on provo mobs and the mobs die to fast to that to really rack up. a plain dexer will out damage any provo dexer at any event.

archers are the way to go these days. almost no risk, takes less than a day to train, and will kick ass at any scoring event, and now they get a bump with crazy meta skills.


all this is to say while I disagree with some of your reasons I think meta bards is a great idea. I would love to see peace and disco fixed, and meta lutes added. my only concern is that a provo mage is one of the safest builds to pvm with as they are hardly disadvantaged in PVP, and pretty good at pvm. I think any meta bards should require all 3 bard skills that way they can only be a 3x mage bard, and not a 5x mage bard.
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Now we are having a conversation. (Although I am pretty sure you copied and pasted the first paragraph from another thread you posted that in).

Don't worry about archers as they have been accounted for already.

Also, I wouldn't transfix upon soley champ/event scores because those are just on aspect of the game and not all templates *should* be equal on all fronts.

I can see how a pure bard template might be fun, heck there are those fire horns that are always fun too. I just worry about balance because provo is still a very strong skill.
 
E

eppy

Grandmaster
The problem with bards at champs is that by virtue of doing what they do they allow the dexers to come in behind and grab all the points with little to no danger to themselves. How many times do you see the high scoring dexers following a tamer or a provo and racking up points while they other guy keeps them distracted. So of course the dexers are going to come in up at the top in points, the bards and tamers enable it.
 
Babethoven

Babethoven

Grandmaster
all i ask for.... name the instrument you get Babethovens instrument

thx

*mumbles* 714 days..... ya know......loyalty....ya KNOW*
 
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