Lumberjacking in PVM

D

Dimok

Master
The purpose of this thread is to get some feedback and perhaps do some theorycraft on the LJ damage bonus. According to the wiki, gm LJ should give a flat 40% damage bonus when using axes. In theory, this should be great for PVM. Unfortunately, I am finding that it is very lackluster.
My current LJ build is GM LJ, Sw, Anat, Tac, Heal, Mage, Resist. He also has a level 2 Berzerker tali. I started a secondary dexxer to focus on pvp (Pois, Alch, Fence, Anat, Heal, Tact, Resist) no tali yet.
I kill mobs faster with the second dexxer using a kryss then the pvm focused LJ character does using axes and a lvl2 tali.
Anyone else find LJ to be extremely lackluster in PVM? Is it 40% increase like wiki says, or is it broken? A guildie says "they know it has issues" but I can't find any other posts on it.
 
Young Star

Young Star

Grandmaster
Yes. In PVM, katanas trump axes in DPS even with a whole skill used up to get 40% damage bonus. Kryss are right behind katanas.

In my opinion a bump in the lower end of the damage range for axes when used by lumberjacks would help re-balance them. The damage range is too wide so the average damage ends up being only slightly higher then katanas with significantly lower swing speed. Yes axes have the potential to really high damage in one hit but there is just as much potential to do a wimpy hit.

The only real source to get a baseline for weapon damage range and speed is from uoguide:
http://www.uoguide.com/Swordsmanship#Weapons

@eppy or @Swayze can you say whether or not UOF is using these same stats as a base damage range and swing speed? It seems that at least some weapon stats have been tweaked for this server and do not match up with this guide. If UOF has more custom weapon stats could they be added to the UOF wiki in this same manner?
 
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Yoko Kurama

Yoko Kurama

Master
Young Star said:
Yes. In PVM, katanas trump axes in DPS even with a whole skill used up to get 40% damage bonus. Kryss are right behind katanas.

In my opinion a bump in the lower end of the damage range for axes when used by lumberjacks would help re-balance them. The damage range is too wide so the average damage ends up being only slightly higher then katanas with significantly lower swing speed. Yes axes have the potential to really high damage in one hit but there is just as much potential to do a wimpy hit.

The only real source to get a baseline for weapon damage range and speed is from uoguide:
http://www.uoguide.com/Swordsmanship#Weapons

@eppy or @Swayze can you say whether or not UOF is using these same stats as a base damage range and swing speed? It seems that at least some weapon stats have been tweaked for this server and do not match up with this guide. If UOF has more custom weapon stats could they be added to the UOF wiki in this same manner?
Click to expand...
Wow, such bad info. Wtf, uo guide? Try our wiki....http://www.uoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weapons

Lol a katana or kryss is not better damage than a good axe with a gm lj. http://www.uoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weapons Why make some post that is not even relevant with a link from other servers. I love how much bad info people give on the forums! Also, with a huge slow 2h weapon and a tali, WHY NOT ARMS LORE? YOU NEED ARMS LORE! Sorry magery. Gm your arms lore, and make sure to use your agi pots. keep your STA above 90 at all times. Even without the arms lore, keep in mind that 40% increase means that the better the weapon the more of a bonus...so with a vanq or a slayer, you are gonna be doing a ton more damage bonus compared to a kryss or katana.
Lol, or just drop LJ FOR arms lore, and switch to fencing or macing. Fencing you have kryss, war fork, and both spears...after katana, these are the next best 4 weapons more or less. Macing you get qstaff and whammer for 2handers which are both amazing, however the war mace is a bit underwhelming. Arms lore really helps with the slower weapons, though.
 
D

Dimok

Master
Yoko Kurama said:
Wow, such bad info. Wtf, uo guide? Try our wiki....http://www.uoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weapons

Lol a katana or kryss is not better damage than a good axe with a gm lj. http://www.uoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weapons Why make some post that is not even relevant with a link from other servers. I love how much bad info people give on the forums! Also, with a huge slow 2h weapon and a tali, WHY NOT ARMS LORE? YOU NEED ARMS LORE! Sorry magery. Gm your arms lore, and make sure to use your agi pots. keep your STA above 90 at all times. Even without the arms lore, keep in mind that 40% increase means that the better the weapon the more of a bonus...so with a vanq or a slayer, you are gonna be doing a ton more damage bonus compared to a kryss or katana.
Lol, or just drop LJ FOR arms lore, and switch to fencing or macing. Fencing you have kryss, war fork, and both spears...after katana, these are the next best 4 weapons more or less. Macing you get qstaff and whammer for 2handers which are both amazing, however the war mace is a bit underwhelming. Arms lore really helps with the slower weapons, though.
Click to expand...

Thinking of dropping magery to 60, resist to 80, and getting arms lore to 60.
 
Ludwig

Ludwig

Grandmaster
I ran your template on my Berserker with LJ. I dropped LJ for Arms Lore once that became a thing and I'll never go back. It's not that LJ sucks (200+ hits with a slayer are quite common) but a katana with that template + Arms Lore is just unparalleled. If you can fit Arms Lore on a LJ, that would be sick but I'd never drop Magery for it.
 
D

Dimok

Master
I think I will try it without magery and adding in arms. It sucks to not be able to bless and get off clutch cures, but I have a 110 scribe for recall scrolls and a gm alchy for pots. I also have a gm mage on each of my accounts, so gating myself around that way is something I'm used to in the past on a arch/provo build. Either way, it's easier to gm magery again then to get to 110 LJ again, but I can always change my mind if I can't live without magery.
Maybe with the arms lore the LJ will start to shine. If I find I still miss frequently and the damage just isn't there with axes, I'll just make him into a gatherer and start a new dexxer.
Is there anyone out there that really likes lumberjack though? Has anyone tested before and after damage numbers on it? I really almost feel like it's not doing as advertised.
 
Ludwig

Ludwig

Grandmaster
Dimok said:
I think I will try it without magery and adding in arms. It sucks to not be able to bless and get off clutch cures, but I have a 110 scribe for recall scrolls and a gm alchy for pots. I also have a gm mage on each of my accounts, so gating myself around that way is something I'm used to in the past on a arch/provo build. Either way, it's easier to gm magery again then to get to 110 LJ again, but I can always change my mind if I can't live without magery.
Maybe with the arms lore the LJ will start to shine. If I find I still miss frequently and the damage just isn't there with axes, I'll just make him into a gatherer and start a new dexxer.
Is there anyone out there that really likes lumberjack though? Has anyone tested before and after damage numbers on it? I really almost feel like it's not doing as advertised.
Click to expand...

My problem with LJ is that it's just flat out SLOW. Even with double axes, it's too slow for me. I'd also argue GM Magery's benefit is those beastly Gheals but that's all player's choice. Good luck!
 
Lady Macbeth

Lady Macbeth

Grandmaster
I'm working on my berky dexxer and thinking to drop magery cuz I need high strength and dex. Int will always low and can't cast many GHeal anyways without saving some mana for emergency recall when a zerg of reds come.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Young Star

Young Star

Grandmaster
Yoko Kurama said:
Wow, such bad info. Wtf, uo guide? Try our wiki....http://www.uoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weapons

Lol a katana or kryss is not better damage than a good axe with a gm lj. http://www.uoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weapons Why make some post that is not even relevant with a link from other servers. I love how much bad info people give on the forums! Also, with a huge slow 2h weapon and a tali, WHY NOT ARMS LORE? YOU NEED ARMS LORE! Sorry magery. Gm your arms lore, and make sure to use your agi pots. keep your STA above 90 at all times. Even without the arms lore, keep in mind that 40% increase means that the better the weapon the more of a bonus...so with a vanq or a slayer, you are gonna be doing a ton more damage bonus compared to a kryss or katana.
Lol, or just drop LJ FOR arms lore, and switch to fencing or macing. Fencing you have kryss, war fork, and both spears...after katana, these are the next best 4 weapons more or less. Macing you get qstaff and whammer for 2handers which are both amazing, however the war mace is a bit underwhelming. Arms lore really helps with the slower weapons, though.
Click to expand...
I admit I missed the chart that was on the UOF wiki. However the rest of what I said still holds true and was based off experience, not the chart. I did not say a katana/kryss do more damage. They however inflict more damage over time. The low end of axes damage range is the same as a katana. The top end is higher and definetly averages out higher per hit but the swing speed of a katana more then makes up for the slightly lower damage. With my LJ zerker it is very common to see him hit a mob for 150 one hit and 50 the next with niether being a concussion blow. The last few invasions i ended up just changing to a katana over my axes.

Axes are still very effective with PVP though there still is the huge damage range where you stomp someone for 40hp then 12hp the next.
 
J

Jace Belerin

Apprentice
LJ is not worth the damage at the cost of the investment, imo it's worth it to save the 100 and go with macing and arms lore for a talisman dexxer. Warhammers have comparable damage with less variance in the damage. Hitting another player for 13 damage with a power axe while they're in barbed leather is unacceptable, katanas and broadsword can do that while being able to chug and dp at the same time.
 
F

Fattson

Grandmaster
Yoko Kurama said:
Wow, such bad info. Wtf, uo guide? Try our wiki....http://www.uoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weapons

Lol a katana or kryss is not better damage than a good axe with a gm lj. http://www.uoforum.com/wiki/index.php?title=Weapons Why make some post that is not even relevant with a link from other servers. I love how much bad info people give on the forums! Also, with a huge slow 2h weapon and a tali, WHY NOT ARMS LORE? YOU NEED ARMS LORE! Sorry magery. Gm your arms lore, and make sure to use your agi pots. keep your STA above 90 at all times. Even without the arms lore, keep in mind that 40% increase means that the better the weapon the more of a bonus...so with a vanq or a slayer, you are gonna be doing a ton more damage bonus compared to a kryss or katana.
Lol, or just drop LJ FOR arms lore, and switch to fencing or macing. Fencing you have kryss, war fork, and both spears...after katana, these are the next best 4 weapons more or less. Macing you get qstaff and whammer for 2handers which are both amazing, however the war mace is a bit underwhelming. Arms lore really helps with the slower weapons, though.
Click to expand...

Kat is the best pvm dps. It has been tested over and over again.
 
T

tantegel

New Member
I think i am missing what benefit arms lore would have. At least according to the wiki. Is there another benefit?

The Arms Lore skill allows a user to find the condition of an item. Mostly used on armor and weapons, the Arms Lore skill provides the condition and durability of an item.
Disarm
In conjunction with the Wrestling skill, Arms Lore allows players the toggled ability to Disarm an opponent. Wrestling and Arms Lore must be at least 80.0 real skill to attempt to Disarm an opponent.

What is this noob missing?
 
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