List of important changes for PVP.

[Shake]

No talking about stacked potions. Punishment will soon follow.

Aren't they beautiful.

 

[wreckognize]

I'm not enough of a pvper to have any opinion on most of what you want changed but I think EVs should not poison players or monsters. Blade spirits should poison but EVs are supposed to be energy. It doesn't even make sense they poison, really.

My guess is that if a vortex of pure energy touched you, you would feel pretty drained and probably require medical attention. That's my best guess as all the playguides up to and including UOR say the same thing, which is:

EV's are supposed to be quick-moving, and cast harm, poison and curse. That means that they are already nerfed on UOF by comparison...

If you can't anticipate it, you can at least outrun it, but it shouldn't be easy for you to stay on screen without dispel loaded. That's normal UO gameplay, I swear these factioners just want kills handed to them. Maybe instead we could just remove guardline from the West Brit Inn??

 

[Smokey McCallum]

My guess is that if a vortex of pure energy touched you, you would feel pretty drained and probably require medical attention. That's my best guess as all the playguides up to and including UOR say the same thing, which is:

EV's are supposed to be quick-moving, and cast harm, poison and curse. That means that they are already nerfed on UOF by comparison...

If you can't anticipate it, you can at least outrun it, but it shouldn't be easy for you to stay on screen without dispel loaded. That's normal UO gameplay, I swear these factioners just want kills handed to them. Maybe instead we could just remove guardline from the West Brit Inn??

You obviously use EVs a lot. Every debate about them I see you defending them. They are clearly too fast. You probably know this and are just scared in case they get changed and youve lost a tactic you use. There are 100 reasons why they should be slowed and just a couple of weak reasons that they shouldnt. You say just outrun them and dispel. Do you ever go into a dungeon? outrunning and dispelling isnt as easy as you make it out to be while negotiating spawn plus someone or more than 1 person chasing and damaging you. If the argument is that EVs are the main source of damage for mages at champs then thats fine but they dont need to move so fast to take down mobs. What mobs move at 80% mounted speed? All the people who abuse EVs will defend their speed, they dont care about balance.

 

[wreckognize]

You obviously use EVs a lot.

Conjecture.

They are clearly too fast.

Opinion.

There are 100 reasons why they should be slowed and just a couple of weak reasons that they shouldnt.

Name ten.

These are all good examples of why emotion doesn't belong in debate. You are basically forced in this case to state things as facts that are not facts, to support your erroneous conclusion that EV's need a change. They do not.

Your only example is that it might be difficult for you to dispel an EV in a dungeon with a player chasing you. In that case I suggest simply outrunning the EV, if you are in a dungeon then you are never very far away from an entrance/exit of some kind. It is extremely easy to outrun an EV and even easier to just stand there and spam dispel.

I did a test and found that almost 100% of the time, I was able to dispel EVs using the spell before dying by standing still and spamming the spell. I think the problem most people are having is that they panic when they see EVs (which is the point of them) and will run into dead ends with these chasing after them. Their movement speed is already low enough to outrun them easily, and there is not one single reason why they should be slowed.

 

[agauo]

My guess is that if a vortex of pure energy touched you, you would feel pretty drained and probably require medical attention. That's my best guess as all the playguides up to and including UOR say the same thing, which is:

EV's are supposed to be quick-moving, and cast harm, poison and curse. That means that they are already nerfed on UOF by comparison...

Do you smoke crack? EV's have never moved this fast, have never casted spells, and the only time I believe they have poisoned was is in T2A.


I wish I knew if you were just trolling or not. I would like to think you are just so that the average IQ of these forums would move up a few points.

 

[wreckognize]

do YOU smoke crack motherfucker?

Taken from the UOR playguide:

Vas Corp Por creates a quick-moving vortex of energy that will attack any creature coming near it. The vortex harms (An Mani; Second Circle) poisons (In Nox; Third Circle) and curses (Des Sanct; Fourth Circle) any creature that touches it.

Like I said already, read the thread you lazy POS faction teeny. Fact is EV's are trammelized to make it so faggyboi factioner teens like you don't need to slam STR pots every time you get touched by a PK's EV.

Enough boo hoo, boo boo. Stop talking like you invented PvP just because you hacked on uoforever. you're just a bunch of newbies

 

[agauo]

I can promise you that energy vortexes did not cast spells the majority of the time in the UOR period. You may be able to find it in some weird ass patch notes, but that does not mean that this was the case. Furthermore there were many other negatives to them which are not present here such as them attacking anyone randomly, not moving nearly as fast, and not poisoning on hit. YOU seem to want all the positives of energy vortexes without ANY of the negatives.

I wish people who aren't good at pvp could not participate in discussions regarding issues that effect pvp. Like if you had to be able to beat someone that actually knows how to cast a few spells in a duel in order to have any sort of input. Would definitely keep mongbats like this kid out. This nerd can't do shit in game but cast energy vortexes and die to anyone with any shred of pvp skill so he defends his only viable tactic on this shard. I could almost take him serious if he was even halfway decent at this game.

 

[wreckognize]

If you're such a super PvPer then why are you crying about needing to counter an 8th circle spell with a 6th circle spell?? Is it really so hard to mark cutoff runes and kill these shitty, horrible EV scroll slinging field monkeys? I feel bad for you even posting, at this point you just look foolish since everyone here knows that I've long since mastered ever aspect of this game, everything from PvP to making billions renting vendors, dropping plots, organizing champ raids, large scale guild leadership, and straight up noobslayin against mega uneven numbers. I'd like to think that if it wasn't for butthurter seeds that I planted long ago in the t2a, teenagers like you wouldn't be here now, avenging your parents deaths to me in the 90s.

That said I'm willing to wager good gold that between the two of us, I'm the one who knows what EV mechanics looked like in UO:R. Sorry if I didn't stick around on pay servers very long after trammel came out, I honestly have no idea what horrible mistakes EA made after that. But you're clearly mistaken that EV's never casted spells, since they always have, and now you're left here looking foolish and with zero credibility. Do go on though, you can cry on my shoulder all night if you need to.

 

[account51]

My opinions:

-1 Explode timer, I like the randomness and I can find 1v1 and survive 1v2 more
+1 on EV's could be slowed down
-1 Stamina of mounts, I like moving fast even when not in PvP
-1 Stacked pots, would mess up the potion kegs, and we don't need the instant restock, it is fast enough now.
Neutral on low spell damage, could use a little more, but not much.
Neutral on defensive wrestle, it is fairly balanced dex vs mage now
Neutral on mounts, I agree, not for mares
+1 on potions, should hit if you don't have query criminal action set.

I also think flagged players shouldn't be allowed through gates. I hated the days from an old server where It was 10 v 12 people would drop two, then run into a random gate out spot.

 

[Shake]

My opinions:

-1 Explode timer, I like the randomness and I can find 1v1 and survive 1v2 more
+1 on EV's could be slowed down
-1 Stamina of mounts, I like moving fast even when not in PvP
-1 Stacked pots, would mess up the potion kegs, and we don't need the instant restock, it is fast enough now.
Neutral on low spell damage, could use a little more, but not much.
Neutral on defensive wrestle, it is fairly balanced dex vs mage now
Neutral on mounts, I agree, not for mares
+1 on potions, should hit if you don't have query criminal action set.

I also think flagged players shouldn't be allowed through gates. I hated the days from an old server where It was 10 v 12 people would drop two, then run into a random gate out spot.

The explode randomness also makes it harder to kill outnumbered and doesn't reward skill in syncing and healing. I don't see how it would effect 1v1's. Surviving is already extremely easy on this server.

I didn't say we needed stamina for mounts. I said stamina loss for the player when they are below 10% health to make running less effective, especially in 1v1's.

I suggested stacked pots to be non lockable and non secure-able. This keeps kegs and restocking the same as now. The main reason for this was restocking off peoples corpses mid fight, instead of having to retreat home for stock and killing the action.

 

[account51]

The explode randomness also makes it harder to kill outnumbered and doesn't reward skill in syncing and healing. I don't see how it would effect 1v1's. Surviving is already extremely easy on this server.

I didn't say we needed stamina for mounts. I said stamina loss for the player when they are below 10% health to make running less effective, especially in 1v1's.

I suggested stacked pots to be non lockable and non secure-able. This keeps kegs and restocking the same as now. The main reason for this was restocking off peoples corpses mid fight, instead of having to retreat home for stock and killing the action.

The randomness just seems like something new for me, I don't mind it, even if the perfect synch cannot be achieved.

Stamina loss for the players, eh, I never leave home without 10 TR pots. Seems like it will just hit the people who can't afford or don't know to take them. Not worth it in my opinion.

I could agree to the stacked pots with your added suggestion.

 

[halygon]

The PVP mechanics are in need of a few small tweaks/changes to become more enjoyable.

The random explosion timer: This takes away any real skill when healing syncs. It was introduced to stop macro syncs, but all this does is make auto heals more effective, and create clunky group fights. Your average player WILL NOT heal a sync, whether it's delayed explosion or not. Good syncs and good heals are the essence of group fighting. This server in it's current state doesn't allow either.
(Note for staff: Aga has mentioned flamestrike has an additional delay. If explosion becomes non randomized, the flamestrike delay will have to be shortened to allow the spells to hit closer together when syncing.)

EV's: These things are just horrible. They move almost as fast as a player, constantly poison and hit extremely fast. A single EV takes one player out of the fight and onto dispel duty, which is no fun for anybody. I believe Adam argued that they are mages #1 source of damage at champ spawns, which may be true, but they don't need to be fighter jets when attacking players as well.

Stamina loss when redlined: We currently have; infinite stamina mounts, no bola's and no player stamina loss. The ability to run endlessly is a massive problem, anyone who PVP's will agree. Adding stamina loss when a player is below, say 10%, will help cure this issue. Redlining your opponent and then having them zoom off into the distance with no way of stopping them is ridiculous.

Stacked Pots: This has been brought up multiple times, it allows you to restock off your opponents on the fly which promotes sustained PVP. Many fights are ended because one side is forced to run home and restock. Not allowing stacked potions to be locked down or secured will keep the keg and butler just as useful, and make fielding more enjoyable.

Spell damage and Timing: Lower circle spells deal extremely low damage, or are resisted too heavily. Spells like magic arrow, harm and lightning are the go to finishing spells on a low health opponent. They are often not enough to finish the target. Tiny damage on the low circle spells combined with no stamina loss makes escaping too easy. Magic arrow for example, often deals 1 damage and has a large delay, making it useless for anything except disrupting.

Defensive Wrestle: This is plain broken. If you attempt to punch while casting a spell, your punch will be invisible and wasted. You will never actually perform the action and will have to wait a few seconds for your next punch to ready.
Another problem with the defensive wrestle, is the bizarre chance of being hit while casting. Attempting to cast infront of a dexxer is almost guaranteed to get you disrupted. This makes fighting outnumbered harder than it should be, and in some cases impossible. Not to mention extremely frustrating.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Less important additions that would be appreciated:


Not so useless mounts: Plain old mounts like horses are completely useless at the moment. Adding the ability to remount lesser mounts (horses, llamas, beetles, etc) who are combat flagged, would give them a purpose. These mounts can be used to block tiles and disrupt mages, which is very fun/skillful tactic to use. Obviously this change shouldn't apply to mares.

Flag System: If you flag a blue while you're blue, and attempt to throw an explosion potion at them, it will not do any damage. However, if they throw a pot at you, it will deal damage.

Thanks for these - your thoughts have not gone unnoticed:

Spell damage and Timing: MA damage has been modified -- not quite to UOGH level, but more than 1HP. Lightning is already good - damage is actually the same as UOGH. Harm has never been a spell that was off.

Defensive Wrestle: Defensive wrestling (anat + eval) is confirmed to work as expected. We are still looking into the wrestling skill during casting.

The other items are on a list of items to consider for PvP changes - some have already been discussed but no decision made on them. Obviously the dev staff will not make just any changes, all angles and impacts are reviewed to ensure it is the right choice, not just for PvP, but for UOF.

 

[Smokey McCallum]

Conjecture.

Opinion.

Name ten.

These are all good examples of why emotion doesn't belong in debate. You are basically forced in this case to state things as facts that are not facts, to support your erroneous conclusion that EV's need a change. They do not.

Your only example is that it might be difficult for you to dispel an EV in a dungeon with a player chasing you. In that case I suggest simply outrunning the EV, if you are in a dungeon then you are never very far away from an entrance/exit of some kind. It is extremely easy to outrun an EV and even easier to just stand there and spam dispel.

I did a test and found that almost 100% of the time, I was able to dispel EVs using the spell before dying by standing still and spamming the spell. I think the problem most people are having is that they panic when they see EVs (which is the point of them) and will run into dead ends with these chasing after them. Their movement speed is already low enough to outrun them easily, and there is not one single reason why they should be slowed.

Ive gave many reasons and youve chose to ignore or disregard all of them.
100 was a slight exaggeration as you know, but only slight.
Tell me one reason why they move so fast? Before you say its era accurate or some shite like that, this is not an era accurate shard of any era.

 

[Shake]

Thanks for these - your thoughts have not gone unnoticed:

Spell damage and Timing: MA damage has been modified -- not quite to UOGH level, but more than 1HP. Lightning is already good - damage is actually the same as UOGH. Harm has never been a spell that was off.

Defensive Wrestle: Defensive wrestling (anat + eval) is confirmed to work as expected. We are still looking into the wrestling skill during casting.

The other items are on a list of items to consider for PvP changes - some have already been discussed but no decision made on them. Obviously the dev staff will not make just any changes, all angles and impacts are reviewed to ensure it is the right choice, not just for PvP, but for UOF.

Thanks, much appreciated.

I understand changes may effect others. I tried to give reasonable suggestions with the entire server in mind.


PS

Could lightning be resisted too often maybe? It just doesn't feel right if it is indeed the same as UOG.

 

[halygon]

Thanks, much appreciated.

I understand changes may effect others. I tried to give reasonable suggestions with the entire server in mind.


PS

Could lightning be resisted too often maybe? It just doesn't feel right if it is indeed the same as UOG.

Lightning is resisted pretty much the same as on UOGH. That said though, our goal is not to copy UOGH, but to find the best mechanics for PvP, it just so happens that both shards run on RunUO code, which makes some things similar by default.

 

[Peav]

bolas or afk

 

[K A Z]

Lightning is resisted pretty much the same as on UOGH. That said though, our goal is not to copy UOGH, but to find the best mechanics for PvP, it just so happens that both shards run on RunUO code, which makes some things similar by default.

tbh

copying UOGH when it comes to PVP is no shame at all. There must be a reason why kids who been playing that Shard are better than those who havent...

 

[halygon]

tbh

copying UOGH when it comes to PVP is no shame at all.

I agree to a point - I mean there are some fundamental mechanics that work just because that is the best way to setup those mechanics. But there are other items are are more a flavor of pvp instead of making it better or worse - it just makes it different. The latter is the sort of wiggle room we have on UOF to be different but better.

There must be a reason why kids who been playing that Shard are better than those who havent...

Its because those of us that came from there were ground down until there was no other way to play except at a higher level.

***Warning random tangent***

My turning point on that other shard was when I first started, probably about a month in (after a 10 year hiatus from UO), I decided I wanted to go PvP. Of course I used the same templates I used back in '99 and ran outside of delucia to fight a red.... and died in less than 10 seconds. Wasn't even a chance in hell I could kill them. I ran back to the healer by the Del gate and ressed, trying to figure out what I did wrong. A red KBR was running through town and must have had Exp pre-loaded. He dropped it on me in town while running through the gate and never stopped in this stride. I of course died as a new res - but I thought it was the coolest thing that he had no problem dropping me in town because he knew that I couldn't call guards when dead - not to mention, he was just getting rid of a spell he was holding, he wasn't even trying to PvP - and here I was not able to kill someone when trying. That whole event, as insignificant, gave me the want to learn all the mechanics and how to actually PvP as opposed to just "attack" another player. I actually joined that reds guild and he is the one that got me to move to UOF a couple years later.

That same culture can happen here, but keep in mind that UOF is well-rounded and contains many more aspects than just PvP -- which other shards usually lean towards one way or the other. This means that we have to work twice as hard to build the PvP culture to that same level.

We are doing a lot of things different and better already, but we still have areas, some discussed in the OP, that need polishing. Bear with us as we discuss, test, and implement mechanics that can have a deep effect on many areas of the shard.

 

[account51]

tbh

copying UOGH when it comes to PVP is no shame at all. There must be a reason why kids who been playing that Shard are better than those who havent...

There were a lot of oddities with it though, the whole EQ/MS phase was a pain in the ass to deal with. The sync drop "requirement" was great when you practiced with people enough to have it perfect, but for the average pvper, it took them longer to adapt.

 

[Stannis]

It's time to eliminate the automatic throwing of pots on this server. It takes no talent and really ruins field PVP. Some of the best moments of the game are being ruined by someone showing up with 60 purple pots all auto throwing and shit. It's just not the way it was and shouldn't be allowed here. The community would respond well to this.