lets discuss thieves risk

[monktoast]

this is not a rant, but a real discussion I'd like to have. I only been stolen from once and it was a few regs, the guy died and was back before I could even fishih looting his corpse for my regs back lol. but I never actually raged like I usually do. I understand thieves are a great part of this game, thieves are awesome to me...but...

pvm kills monsters..monsters have no tiem or resources invested. the risk the pvmer is dieing, or reds killing them and looting them and wasting their time money and resourcese..you see when a pvm kills a monster they are only wasting their own time/money/effort for failure..not the monsters. when a red kills a person, the pker is risking either their own time or the players time money and resources, but that risk is there for the red, to get statted. its called justice and risk.

now a thief? they can steal all day long and never worry about failure, which will never bring justice. ever. when they see a target, they never have to worry that failing to steal will get them statted or any ANY trouble whats so ever. so they have everything to gain and NOTHING to lose. yes somewill say they lose the time they took to scout a great target, but there is zero risk for failure, they are pitting their time, to anothers players time who doesn't deserve their time and effort put to risk unless theres a chance for justice or balance.

the thief is risking another players time, money and effort for their own gain..but the thief only risks the time it took to set up the steal. obviously if you are a great thief you deserve success, because you did what it took to accomplish the task. im not hating on thieves.

but if you fail, there NEEDS to be some type of punishment, to make thieving a risk vs reward situation instead of a kamakazi no fear situation.

its called balance, and with the crime of stealing, there is no balance. they risk very little of their own, yet risk a whoel lot of another players.

unless, I'm missing something..maybe there is punishment for stealing? if so, please let me know

 

[THEREGOESBILL]

make a thief don't get mad get even!!!!!! its balanced because EVERYONE can make a thief!

 

[monktoast]

hmm, while I do plan on making a thief, im sure this isn't the most reasonable response to a balance issue. im not suggesting a nerf, just a better system to make thieving more dangerous for the thieves. heck even if they had to use some type of resource to steal would do wonders. as it is, they use nothing to steal. if they had to use some type of tool that has limited use, then they would at least be risking something to steal.


my idea is, they get "fined" for getting caught or getting killed, that way they at least also have to weigh if getting caught or killed is worth what they are about to steal. not sure how this can be arrange or the magnitude of the fines..it does seem a bit complicated because if its too low it doesn't matter but if its too high thieves wont even be able to train stealing from other people..because stealing isn't just about rasing skill to 100 and stealth, its about getting good at stealing and getting away

 

[THEREGOESBILL]

more dangerous, GUARDS!!!!!!!!!!!! its not like there are 120 stealing PS making people never fail i see thieves get wacked all the time i get group killed several times a day. I don't think there gonna change anything, i avoid vesper on my tamer because of a LEET thief Moses might a good idea for you to do the same.

PS. dont go afk with a vanq a brit bank bad idea

 

[Joe Musselman]

this is not a rant, but a real discussion I'd like to have. I only been stolen from once and it was a few regs, the guy died and was back before I could even fishih looting his corpse for my regs back lol. but I never actually raged like I usually do. I understand thieves are a great part of this game, thieves are awesome to me...but...

Sounds like a rant...

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

 

[Greed]

i love playing a thief. it's rad.

 

[monktoast]

Sounds like a rant...

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

So I guess suggesting donation items is a rant to.

I'm not even invested in this idea much, it just makes sense to me. You do a crime you do the time.

Getting gank killed is just part of the learning process of stealing. It's absolutely not a deterent of any sort.

 

[jeffe]

A thief cannot give a murder count. If they have stolen, from a blue player, and not yet died they are "perma-grey." Meaning if they are attacked by another player, regardless of their current status as blue or grey, the attacking player will not go gray. Once dead they have to wait two minutes from the last damage inflicted to be blue again.

If a thief hasn't stolen since their last death and is attacked: the attacking player goes gray for two minutes from the last damage inflicted upon the thief (but that is the only penalty for the attacking player). In town, I believe this WILL get you guard whacked. Thieves will stay "perma-gray" to a player from whom they have stolen till their next death.

If a thief takes a murder count they are suspended from the thieves guild; they are no longer allowed to steal from other players until that murder count decays.

Tracking works at 0 skill. The Reveal spell has no chance of failure if a hidden or stealthing thief is in range of the spell.

Changing thief rules as they stand with a fine or some other penalty would imbalance the system as described above.

 

[Joe Musselman]

So I guess suggesting donation items is a rant to.

I'm not even invested in this idea much, it just makes sense to me. You do a crime you do the time.

Getting gank killed is just part of the learning process of stealing. It's absolutely not a deterent of any sort.

I didn't read the post. I just looked at it and it looked like a rant...

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

 

[Darkarna]

this is not a rant, but a real discussion I'd like to have. I only been stolen from once and it was a few regs, the guy died and was back before I could even fishih looting his corpse for my regs back lol. but I never actually raged like I usually do. I understand thieves are a great part of this game, thieves are awesome to me...but...

pvm kills monsters..monsters have no tiem or resources invested. the risk the pvmer is dieing, or reds killing them and looting them and wasting their time money and resourcese..you see when a pvm kills a monster they are only wasting their own time/money/effort for failure..not the monsters. when a red kills a person, the pker is risking either their own time or the players time money and resources, but that risk is there for the red, to get statted. its called justice and risk.

now a thief? they can steal all day long and never worry about failure, which will never bring justice. ever. when they see a target, they never have to worry that failing to steal will get them statted or any ANY trouble whats so ever. so they have everything to gain and NOTHING to lose. yes somewill say they lose the time they took to scout a great target, but there is zero risk for failure, they are pitting their time, to anothers players time who doesn't deserve their time and effort put to risk unless theres a chance for justice or balance.

the thief is risking another players time, money and effort for their own gain..but the thief only risks the time it took to set up the steal. obviously if you are a great thief you deserve success, because you did what it took to accomplish the task. im not hating on thieves.

but if you fail, there NEEDS to be some type of punishment, to make thieving a risk vs reward situation instead of a kamakazi no fear situation.

its called balance, and with the crime of stealing, there is no balance. they risk very little of their own, yet risk a whoel lot of another players.

unless, I'm missing something..maybe there is punishment for stealing? if so, please let me know

You have got to be kidding, right?

Check out this scenario :-

Mr Thief is walking about Britain, he spies a mark and heads over to investigate as a thief would do. He casually brushes past his mark, opens the pack and takes a look inside. The thief is revolted by the pack that he looks in, blessed items and a pack that would make a garbage dump look tidy *I mean what is it with packs that are so incredibly messy, death is NOT an excuse*. Suddenly, he spots a Power Scroll hidden among the clutter and nearly has a heart-attack when he realizes it is an animal taming power scroll +20. He steals the item and gets guard wacked, two minutes grey and a power scroll down, someone else loots it and dances around the world in joy until he realizes that another thief has stolen it off him who also gets guard wacked while someone else loots it and banks it. Two thieves are now two minutes in the grey as criminal, one uses a shrine, comes back and gets murdered by the original person who stole the scroll from, another two minutes grey.

After two minutes, he returns, heals up and makes a very bad error on his part, he attacks someone outside town who promptly heads off and commits suicide, counting the thief and getting him kicked out of the thieves guild. The thief is now useless until the count wears off.

What is it with you and complaining about everything? If this kind of thing disturbs you so greatly, go find a shard with Trammel and play with the fairies, since this shard OBVIOUSLY does not suit you one bit. You keep on about risk vs reward, if you were to change/unbalance the core elements that make UO what it is, you are essentially creating a coffin for the server. Many people still play UO because of its hardcore mechanics, freedom of movement which is not seen enough in today's gaming, if you want safety, go find something else that suits your play-style as again, this game is NOT for you. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

 

[monktoast]

A thief cannot give a murder count. If they have stolen, from a blue player, and not yet died they are "perma-grey." Meaning if they are attacked by another player, regardless of their current status as blue or grey, the attacking player will not go gray. Once dead they have to wait two minutes from the last damage inflicted to be blue again.

If a thief hasn't stolen since their last death and is attacked: the attacking player goes gray for two minutes from the last damage inflicted upon the thief (but that is the only penalty for the attacking player). In town, I believe this WILL get you guard whacked. Thieves will stay "perma-gray" to a player from whom they have stolen till their next death.

If a thief takes a murder count they are suspended from the thieves guild; they are no longer allowed to steal from other players until that murder count decays.

Tracking works at 0 skill. The Reveal spell has no chance of failure if a hidden or stealthing thief is in range of the spell.

Changing thief rules as they stand with a fine or some other penalty would imbalance the system as described above.

Fair enough. Now when a thief dies after stealing your 10k weapon or something, stashes it, after that 2 minute rez wait, what then is the justice? Seems 2 minutes to Rez isn't to bad a deal for a nice weapon

 

[Blaine the Gypsy]

I play a thief all the time. It is risky at all times. Don't confuse a corpse looter with a thief. A thief can not take a murder count or face being unable to steal from players. Always being a target of attack blue or perma grey unable to give murder counts. A limit to how much/heavy of an item a thief can steal is a factor. Don't bank at banks known to have constant bank thief traffic. Staff once in a while forgets to get rid of the res station ankhs so a thief can keep ressing right after stealing/dying. I could go on and on...

 

[monktoast]

You have got to be kidding, right?

Check out this scenario :-

Mr Thief is walking about Britain, he spies a mark and heads over to investigate as a thief would do. He casually brushes past his mark, opens the pack and takes a look inside. The thief is revolted by the pack that he looks in, blessed items and a pack that would make a garbage dump look tidy *I mean what is it with packs that are so incredibly messy, death is NOT an excuse*. Suddenly, he spots a Power Scroll hidden among the clutter and nearly has a heart-attack when he realizes it is an animal taming power scroll +20. He steals the item and gets guard wacked, two minutes grey and a power scroll down, someone else loots it and dances around the world in joy until he realizes that another thief has stolen it off him who also gets guard wacked while someone else loots it and banks it. Two thieves are now two minutes in the grey as criminal, one uses a shrine, comes back and gets murdered by the original person who stole the scroll from, another two minutes grey.

After two minutes, he returns, heals up and makes a very bad error on his part, he attacks someone outside town who promptly heads off and commits suicide, counting the thief and getting him kicked out of the thieves guild. The thief is now useless until the count wears off.

What is it with you and complaining about everything? If this kind of thing disturbs you so greatly, go find a shard with Trammel and play with the fairies, since this shard OBVIOUSLY does not suit you one bit. You keep on about risk vs reward, if you were to change unbalance the core elements that make UO what it is, you are essentially creating a coffin for the server. Many people still play UO because of its hardcore mechanics, freedom of movement which is not seen enough in today's gaming, if you want safety, go find something else that suits your play-style as again, this game is NOT for you. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

None of that is that bad if you actually succeed in being a good enough theif to keep the scroll.

The murder count is your fault

I'm merely pointing out the lack of real risk for trying to steal the million dollar power scroll. Wow 2 minutes to red and you have to stay sway from the player you tried to rob. Not good enough I imagine.


Stealing is hard, it's very hard to get a good steal. but hard in itself doesn't make it its own punishment.

 

[jeffe]

Fair enough. Now when a thief dies after stealing your 10k weapon or something, stashes it, after that 2 minute rez wait, what then is the justice? Seems 2 minutes to Rez isn't to bad a deal for a nice weapon

Make your own justice. There are "no rules" outside of guard areas. Murderers are free to do as they please outside of towns unless other players decide to inflict justice upon them.

 

[monktoast]

But it isn't justice killing a thief prepared to die with no punishment.


Reds get stat loss on death they are not prepared to die.

Thieves get nothing except a 2 minute rez wait. So I can do my own justice a million times it doesn't matter to the theif

Reds also have bounties so they are worth tracking and killing


Thieves, if you don't get em right away, not even worth tracking down.

 

[Darkarna]

None of that is that bad if you actually succeed in being a good enough theif to keep the scroll.

The murder count is your fault

I'm merely pointing out the lack of real risk for trying to steal the million dollar power scroll. Wow 2 minutes to red and you have to stay sway from the player you tried to rob. Not good enough I imagine.


Stealing is hard, it's very hard to get a good steal. but hard in itself doesn't make it its own punishment.

You were talking about on another thread about people looting and how there is not enough justice towards looters, now you are banging on about thieves, next you will be jumping up and down about reds and after that you will complain that Tailors/Smiths charge to much for their services. You come across as someone who enjoys moaning about the shady parts of the game, again I say, if you can not cope with it then perhaps try something more suited to your style of game. There is more than enough balance with classes for things to destabilize everything if even the smallest of things are changed.

 

[jeffe]

Many people still play UO because of its hardcore mechanics, freedom of movement which is not seen enough in today's gaming, if you want safety, go find something else that suits your play-style as again, this game is NOT for you. PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT.

/thread

 

[monktoast]

The other thread I understood the explanation for ninja looting. And I agree. The corpse is on the ground it's fair game.

Thieving is quite different as the stuff is in your pack.

and one can say that anyone who defends starless on reds don't belong here that poking is just part of it all.

I never once said to stop the theif skull or stealing so that comment is false logic.

 

[monktoast]

One more thing the nature of gaming is to pose your thoughts. How many reds complain about star loss or people complaining about tamers getting all the loot to me I seem to fit right in this place =} don't hate on me I'm just sharing my thoughts

 

[Bubbagrim]

I just stand in the shadows and when a Tamer or Bard dies well, ya that's me looting your body...then I sneak away back into the shadows.