Incentives for PVP

[GluttonySDS]

Lol

Nice post.

 

[Bromista]

Thanks, gayboi

 

[toddyboi]

Is there any chance we can get some incentives for PVP? With the removal of sigil bonuses, consensual PVP has had its incentives stripped away from it almost completely. With there being nothing to fight over(except pride, ego, e-penis) consensual PVP has become almost non-existent except for about 3 hours in the morning(est) when EQMS and the Koreans fight.

Perhaps it's time we thought about adding back incentives to consensual PVP systems(factions, order/chaos, militias). We have seen time and time again that if there are incentives(pixels) on the line people will be motivated to group up and fight(IDOCs, champs, RDAs, etc). We have also seen that without pixels people will lose the motivation to fight(factions, ctf events, etc).

Now thankfully PVP is exciting enough to some to be its own incentive or reward but could you imagine if events or champs or RDAs didnt drop anything except mob gold? Would anyone do an RDA just to collect 10k gold? No -- the only reason people do PVE is for the pixel incentive. So the question is, why cannot we add a pixel incentive to CONSENSUAL PVP(not PKing)? Some examples could include:

1. A point of bloodshed in each dungeon that is capable by a guild/faction/militia. The team that controls this point collects a 10% tax on all gold dropped by mobs farmed in that dungeon while controlling the dungeon point of bloodshed. The faction commander/guild leader/militia king would then be able to access this gold and use it/distribute it.

2. Increase the amount of silver from PVP kills by 10x. So the minimum amount of silver you could get from killing an enemy would be ~500 silver(worth around 20k gold). This way after a night of consensual PVP(only fighting people who want to fight) you could make some decent gold/silver.. potentially enough to cover buying PVP supplies for the next nights fun. To prevent exploitation of this(killing your own chars, your friends chars) you would no longer be allowed to be in multiple factions/militias. This could also come with the implementation of a killboard webpage displaying all faction/milita kills for the day(who killed who and at what time). This would not only allow for people to see who was actually winning fights but also who is potentially exploiting the system. You would be banned from factions completely for your first offense of exploiting this system.

3. Create a faction/militia salary. You would receive a weekly score based on your participation in factions/militias with different metrics determining how much you receive in silver(or event points used to purchase aesthetic items ala old event score). Your weekly salarly would be increased for getting kills in consensual field PVP(factions, militias), for dying in consensual PVP(so that newbs are getting soemthing for trying it out), capturing objectives, etc. Your salary would receive a bonus for being in the smallest factions and you would receive a penalty for being in the largest faction.

4. Bring back a faction incentive at champs and RDAs. The faction RDA used to create a lot of PVP. Put the faction RDA inside a faction base and only allow factioners to go there. Additionally, increase the amount of champ score that a factioner gets at a champion spawn to encourage more participation in factions at champs/RDAs. The faction scroll used to also create lots of consensual PVP at champs and since its been taken away, champs seem to rarely have any PVP.


These are just a few examples of ways to add incentives to consensual PVP systems. Keep in mind, that the more consensual PVP there is the LESS non-consensual PVP there will be(more faction fights = less 5-10 man PK squads killing bards out of boredom). With these ideas, both veterans and newbs would have a reason to try out consensual PVP systems and not feel like its a complete waste of their time(win or lose).

Thoughts?

p.s.

if youre only reply is "EQMS just wants to get rewards for winniing all the time" simply goto the PVP section of the forums or read discord where it seems that all you will see is EQMS is a dead guild that is falling apart. Why would people be worried about a dead guild winning anything?

Don't know why you bother dude.. Pretty sure every pvper has seen shane say in discord a hundred times he doesn't give a fuck about the pvp community. You want to be heard? Get on your reds and grief the fuck out of every dungeon and champ spawn.

 

[GluttonySDS]

Don't know why you bother dude.. Pretty sure every pvper has seen shane say in discord a hundred times he doesn't give a fuck about the pvp community. You want to be heard? Get on your reds and grief the fuck out of every dungeon and champ spawn.

Pretty disheartening if true... not sure why staff thinks good PVE and good PVP cannot co-exist. In fact, the more people PVPing in an incentivized PVP system just means that there's less people PKing the people who just want to PVE in peace.

 

[bradley-]

The best bet would be to voice your concern about militias. We all know it's going to happen (at some point) which means nothing, or very little, will be done to the current system. If the militia system works the same way as it did on another server I played then each town gets a hero (although I'd suggest starting small with a few towns 3-4) that the town militia will have to protect. You can kidnap enemy town heros and toss them in your town's jail. The mayor/governor of the town can choose perks such as more gold, better loot, higher skill gain for different groups of skills, more resources, etc, etc, etc. More heros in your jail = Higher & better bonuses. Players who do not wish to be a part of the town militia can still become a citizen of whatever town they choose to take advantage of the perks that town's leader has chosen.

The militia system is very fun and it's a shame that it was announced SO long ago and still has not been implemented. However, I believe that when it is put in-game that the militia PvP will flourish. This system promotes more than just PvP as well.. RP groups/guilds benefit from this system and don't be surprised to see enemies forming unlikely, temporary alliances to achieve a common goal. I've seen the militia system in action and I know several other players in the community who have also seen it. It works very well.

We just need it here. In game.

 

[Young Star]

The best bet would be to voice your concern about militias. We all know it's going to happen (at some point) which means nothing, or very little, will be done to the current system. If the militia system works the same way as it did on another server I played then each town gets a hero (although I'd suggest starting small with a few towns 3-4) that the town militia will have to protect. You can kidnap enemy town heros and toss them in your town's jail. The mayor/governor of the town can choose perks such as more gold, better loot, higher skill gain for different groups of skills, more resources, etc, etc, etc. More heros in your jail = Higher & better bonuses. Players who do not wish to be a part of the town militia can still become a citizen of whatever town they choose to take advantage of the perks that town's leader has chosen.

The militia system is very fun and it's a shame that it was announced SO long ago and still has not been implemented. However, I believe that when it is put in-game that the militia PvP will flourish. This system promotes more than just PvP as well.. RP groups/guilds benefit from this system and don't be surprised to see enemies forming unlikely, temporary alliances to achieve a common goal. I've seen the militia system in action and I know several other players in the community who have also seen it. It works very well.

We just need it here. In game.

All of this. ^^ Come on @Adam get that code cranked out! @Shane lock him in his office with a case of Redbulls.

 

[kolbycrouch]

+1 for increase faction silver from kills.

 

[baseball dad]

Imo, the fun of pvping should be incentive enough. If people aren't pvping (consensually) on the largest free server there is, it's probably because the pvp system sucks (hint: it does)

Trying to add incentives for people who don't genuinely enjoy pvp only adds to the amount of newbs who learn nothing more than how to install sallos and make a target acquire hot key so that they have a chance at getting pixels.

And chances are those newbs aren't going to try to start their own zerg squad to compete with others. Why would they, when they can just join the already largest guild on the server for chump change and thus greatly increase their chances of getting more shiniez?

Gluts drinks his own kool-aid.

Anyone with an iq over 80 can surely see that target closest pvp is it's own worst enemy - it has killed pvp here.

EQMS running around 10 deep pressing target closest spell has ruined pvp.

I'll give a suggestion for the thread:

• a target closest talisman which you gain for killing people. When proc'd, any gank mage who presses his target closest/target acquire hot key gets zapped by his own spell.

a good enough incentive to pvp?

 

[Shane]

Don't know why you bother dude.. Pretty sure every pvper has seen shane say in discord a hundred times he doesn't give a fuck about the pvp community. You want to be heard? Get on your reds and grief the fuck out of every dungeon and champ spawn.

Well that's certainly not fucking true.
Jesus

 

[Young Star]

Well that's certainly not fucking true.
Jesus

Just ignore that crap. There are plenty of other productive comments that were given in this thread.

 

[StegcO]

Do you want all people make pvp glutt?

Remove Wands
+
Remove Runic Weapon damage against human
+
Crafted exp weapon automatically have power/surpassly bonus ONLY against chars

You will se half of the shard making pvp becouse no needs to buy verite runic weapons and no needs to restock 5 wands everytime died

 

[Kird]

Don't know why you bother dude.. Pretty sure every pvper has seen shane say in discord a hundred times he doesn't give a fuck about the PK community.

fyp

 

[GluttonySDS]

Gluts drinks his own kool-aid.

Anyone with an iq over 80 can surely see that target closest pvp is it's own worst enemy - it has killed pvp here.

EQMS running around 10 deep pressing target closest spell has ruined pvp.

I'll give a suggestion for the thread:

• a target closest talisman which you gain for killing people. When proc'd, any gank mage who presses his target closest/target acquire hot key gets zapped by his own spell.

a good enough incentive to pvp?

Is this a joke? You play a dexxer on razor using attack closest and purple pot scripts... stop pretending like target closest makes a bit of difference in PVP. It is a feature standard on EVERY shard and EVERY client. Stop crying and learn to play.

Do you want all people make pvp glutt?

Remove Wands
+
Remove Runic Weapon damage against human
+
Crafted exp weapon automatically have power/surpassly bonus ONLY against chars

You will se half of the shard making pvp becouse no needs to buy verite runic weapons and no needs to restock 5 wands everytime died

I will agree that wands are lame -- the people who cried for them to be added(aga, jamiez, chad, etc) dont even play here anymore. All wands has done is make people have 5 or 6 additional scripts(yes, all wand drops can be 100% scripted) and increase the skill gap in PVP. Now -- I'm fine for making factions have a higher skill threshold for PVP if thats what we want ... but if thats the case, add bolas, mount fatigue, and AoE spells to factions to balance shit out... not JUST wands.

As for runic weapons, these are so few and far between that its a pretty much non issue, espeically when you MUST own a sigil to make a weapon and they only stay blessed for half the time they do on other shards.

 

[StegcO]

As for runic weapons, these are so few and far between that its a pretty much non issue, espeically when you MUST own a sigil to make a weapon and they only stay blessed for half the time they do on other shards.

If an exceptional katana automatically will be Power/Surpassly against chars you will se more people play dexxer and more people in pvp

 

[GluttonySDS]

If an exceptional katana automatically will be Power/Surpassly against chars you will se more people play dexxer and more people in pvp

Why would an exceptional katana automatically be a power weapon? If you want to play an easy mode dexxer then you have to spend maybe 10-20k for gear... hardly a lot of money considering how much meta pets cost to complete(50+mil).

 

[drasked]

Well that's certainly not fucking true.
Jesus

So what can we expect in the near future in terms of PVP content?

Last time i asked you on discord about kingdoms it sounded like it was done but you guys didn't want to release it for an (to me) unknown reason.

Do you want more suggestions for pvp stuff or there something in the works we need to be patient for, and if so, can we know about it?

 

[GluttonySDS]

So what can we expect in the near future in terms of PVP content?

Last time i asked you on discord about kingdoms it sounded like it was done but you guys didn't want to release it for an (to me) unknown reason.

Do you want more suggestions for pvp stuff or there something in the works we need to be patient for, and if so, can we know about it?

It's been over a year since we were supposed to get a replacement for factions... since then we've seen faction PVP gutted(sigil bonuses removed, ability to be in multiple factions allowed, etc). In one year the only PVP content added were wands and firehorns, which is cool but also no where near a priority in improving PVP here(in fact, many can argue wands simply made PVP worse).

I'm all about UOForever(its the only UO shard worth playing) but the fact there is such little attention given to PVP on here is troubling... especially when many suggestions have been offered and promises made but not kept.

 

[kolbycrouch]

I feel like a lot more attention has been given to pvp here than most shards I've played on.

In UO right now you have 3 different kinds of servers.

1. UOF
2. Shitty server made by 1 corrupt gm and played by his guild-mates from their last server.
3. Server that tries to clone some era of OSI without thinking about balance at all.

On my last server, champ spawns were the pvp incentive. Every single champ was bound to get raided.
Without a spawn, people would barely come out to fight.

Gluttony is right, as much as some don't care, most want some kind of pixel incentive to get them to fight.

Come out with better ways to distribute silver, and a more diverse collection of rewards to claim with silver.

As it is, Reds gets pixels for killing blues. Blues get pixels for killing monsters. Factions have little incentive.

 

[Kilike]

I've been gone awhile but it seems almost nothing has changed. /sad
Anyhow let's break these down without any basis shall we.

1. A point of bloodshed in each dungeon that is capable by a guild/faction/militia. The team that controls this point collects a 10% tax on all gold dropped by mobs farmed in that dungeon while controlling the dungeon point of bloodshed. The faction commander/guild leader/militia king would then be able to access this gold and use it/distribute it.

Did we forget where we are? You're in said dungeon pvping over this mark. Think those blues will stick around long to farm anything? Prolly not. This tax, would it come off 10% of the gold the person/s farming would make? So just because they have no desire in factions they automatically lose 10% of anything they kill? That's bad for business, or did you mean, 10% is generated per kill not affecting the player farming it and thus creating this gold out of thin air? If so that's also bad for business as in dilutes gold worth even more.

2. Increase the amount of silver from PVP kills by 10x. So the minimum amount of silver you could get from killing an enemy would be ~500 silver(worth around 20k gold). This way after a night of consensual PVP(only fighting people who want to fight) you could make some decent gold/silver.. potentially enough to cover buying PVP supplies for the next nights fun. To prevent exploitation of this(killing your own chars, your friends chars) you would no longer be allowed to be in multiple factions/militias. This could also come with the implementation of a killboard webpage displaying all faction/milita kills for the day(who killed who and at what time). This would not only allow for people to see who was actually winning fights but also who is potentially exploiting the system. You would be banned from factions completely for your first offense of exploiting this system.

Do we not understand basic supply and demand? 500silver wouldn't be worth 20k gold anymore, if you were getting 500silver a kill. All the board idea does, is create more work on the staff, having to check names constantly to see whose who, and if they "cheated" and ego stroking. Idea just wouldn't work, nor would it be enough to get more/new people into the scene.

3. Create a faction/militia salary. You would receive a weekly score based on your participation in factions/militias with different metrics determining how much you receive in silver(or event points used to purchase aesthetic items ala old event score). Your weekly salarly would be increased for getting kills in consensual field PVP(factions, militias), for dying in consensual PVP(so that newbs are getting soemthing for trying it out), capturing objectives, etc. Your salary would receive a bonus for being in the smallest factions and you would receive a penalty for being in the largest faction.

If the salary is paid in silver this could be a decent idea. Though as stated earlier this would drop silver to gold price. Which would require silver to be more useful in terms of gearing up for pvp, specially with how much silver would end up on the server. However a Gold salary just doesn't do it for me. PvP isn't about making gold. Not in our Era anyways.....More on that later.

4. Bring back a faction incentive at champs and RDAs. The faction RDA used to create a lot of PVP. Put the faction RDA inside a faction base and only allow factioners to go there. Additionally, increase the amount of champ score that a factioner gets at a champion spawn to encourage more participation in factions at champs/RDAs. The faction scroll used to also create lots of consensual PVP at champs and since its been taken away, champs seem to rarely have any PVP.

Unfortunately I can't put to much into this one, as I haven't been back long enough to see how the changes affect this. Though I feel like I read somewhere that factioners do get more score? Not that any of that matters. Spawns and RDA's shouldn't need a Faction incentive. The incentive in both of these are the rewards already. This isn't a mechanic issue, it's a selfish issue. Of all the years and different servers I've played, it seems teamwork on UOF is at an all time low. Having been in the majority of guilds on this server, I have seen the same problem.
One group who solely wants to pvp, and will bail on the objective of killing a spawn while they chase down targets, and another group who solely wants it down and to GTFO. Both are options that with just a LITTLE teamwork benefit each other greatly. Sadly the fix to this wouldn't be well reviewed on a server like ours.


This conversation is brought up far to much to be honest. Incentives in the short run do one thing. Favor the guild on top immediately, and in the long run MIGHT even things out and bring more to factions, but as you stated in your pvp rankings thread. NO one is contesting you guys right now and haven't for 2 years. So incentives or not, these ideas seem to benefit who the most? Go ahead, answer it. It's you. Since we know you'll write this off as me being salty, or clueless, yada yada.


If people truly want pvp to flourish it requires drastic changes, and mechanics a lot of people on a UOR style server are going to reject just because it's NOT ERA CORRECT!. /shakes head Won't even bother putting said suggestions down.

 

[kolbycrouch]

Do we not understand basic supply and demand? 500silver wouldn't be worth 20k gold anymore.

Most people farm monsters to get silver, because its 1000x faster than to track down and kill players.

Yes, increasing the overall silver drop in-game would decrease it's value, but not by much. Because most silver is still obtained from monsters.

This would simply allow PvP-only factioners to gain reasonable amounts of silver.

Increasing faction silver by 10x would not drop the silver price anywhere near 1/10.

So PvP-only players, would be getting proportionately more silver than before.