Incentives for PVP

[GluttonySDS]

Is there any chance we can get some incentives for PVP? With the removal of sigil bonuses, consensual PVP has had its incentives stripped away from it almost completely. With there being nothing to fight over(except pride, ego, e-penis) consensual PVP has become almost non-existent except for about 3 hours in the morning(est) when EQMS and the Koreans fight.

Perhaps it's time we thought about adding back incentives to consensual PVP systems(factions, order/chaos, militias). We have seen time and time again that if there are incentives(pixels) on the line people will be motivated to group up and fight(IDOCs, champs, RDAs, etc). We have also seen that without pixels people will lose the motivation to fight(factions, ctf events, etc).

Now thankfully PVP is exciting enough to some to be its own incentive or reward but could you imagine if events or champs or RDAs didnt drop anything except mob gold? Would anyone do an RDA just to collect 10k gold? No -- the only reason people do PVE is for the pixel incentive. So the question is, why cannot we add a pixel incentive to CONSENSUAL PVP(not PKing)? Some examples could include:

1. A point of bloodshed in each dungeon that is capable by a guild/faction/militia. The team that controls this point collects a 10% tax on all gold dropped by mobs farmed in that dungeon while controlling the dungeon point of bloodshed. The faction commander/guild leader/militia king would then be able to access this gold and use it/distribute it.

2. Increase the amount of silver from PVP kills by 10x. So the minimum amount of silver you could get from killing an enemy would be ~500 silver(worth around 20k gold). This way after a night of consensual PVP(only fighting people who want to fight) you could make some decent gold/silver.. potentially enough to cover buying PVP supplies for the next nights fun. To prevent exploitation of this(killing your own chars, your friends chars) you would no longer be allowed to be in multiple factions/militias. This could also come with the implementation of a killboard webpage displaying all faction/milita kills for the day(who killed who and at what time). This would not only allow for people to see who was actually winning fights but also who is potentially exploiting the system. You would be banned from factions completely for your first offense of exploiting this system.

3. Create a faction/militia salary. You would receive a weekly score based on your participation in factions/militias with different metrics determining how much you receive in silver(or event points used to purchase aesthetic items ala old event score). Your weekly salarly would be increased for getting kills in consensual field PVP(factions, militias), for dying in consensual PVP(so that newbs are getting soemthing for trying it out), capturing objectives, etc. Your salary would receive a bonus for being in the smallest factions and you would receive a penalty for being in the largest faction.

4. Bring back a faction incentive at champs and RDAs. The faction RDA used to create a lot of PVP. Put the faction RDA inside a faction base and only allow factioners to go there. Additionally, increase the amount of champ score that a factioner gets at a champion spawn to encourage more participation in factions at champs/RDAs. The faction scroll used to also create lots of consensual PVP at champs and since its been taken away, champs seem to rarely have any PVP.


These are just a few examples of ways to add incentives to consensual PVP systems. Keep in mind, that the more consensual PVP there is the LESS non-consensual PVP there will be(more faction fights = less 5-10 man PK squads killing bards out of boredom). With these ideas, both veterans and newbs would have a reason to try out consensual PVP systems and not feel like its a complete waste of their time(win or lose).

Thoughts?

p.s.

if youre only reply is "EQMS just wants to get rewards for winniing all the time" simply goto the PVP section of the forums or read discord where it seems that all you will see is EQMS is a dead guild that is falling apart. Why would people be worried about a dead guild winning anything?

 

[HombreSauce]

Remove statloss feature from reds!

 

[Bretylium]

Great Ideas!

Think of the thousands of people that play other shards that want to PvP. This would attract them to UOF. I would like to add a few ideas.

1. This gets the pressure off blues. You already had to change the aggro to reds in Dungeons to try to give blues a chance. This puts PvP against PvPers. It only makes sense to go after other PvPers.

2. This gives more incentives to stay PvPing. Alot of times guilds say "fuck it" and pack up if they lose. This pressures them to keep fighting.

3. PvPers have to spend more gold than anyone else. Regs and supplies are not cheap. They also buy tons of Dono.

 

[Nekronos]

I sort of like these ideas. I think you would probably get a lot more people involved if the system or groups where more decentralized than the four factions or chaos/order. If you split each dungeon up into a greater overland area or "kingdoms" units (so you could have 7-8 or whatever units vying for control) to circumvent the whole eqms too big to fail thing.

 

[GluttonySDS]

I sort of like these ideas. I think you would probably get a lot more people involved if the system or groups where more decentralized than the four factions or chaos/order. If you split each dungeon up into a greater overland area or "kingdoms" units (so you could have 7-8 or whatever units vying for control) to circumvent the whole eqms too big to fail thing.

People have allied up against us for 10 years now... when there is an incentive to fight, you will see people putting aside their egos and joining forces to fight EQMS to win the prize. Hell, there's been an anti EQMS alliance going on 2+ months here... they just rarely actually do anything other than talk about how bad EQMS is(instead of actually fighting us).

Artificially trying to split up groups wont work as there will always be ways to circumvent things(unless friends list is removed and VOIP becomes forbidden).

 

[GluttonySDS]

Great Ideas!

Think of the thousands of people that play other shards that want to PvP. This would attract them to UOF. I would like to add a few ideas.

1. This gets the pressure off blues. You already had to change the aggro to reds in Dungeons to try to give blues a chance. This puts PvP against PvPers. It only makes sense to go after other PvPers.

2. This gives more incentives to stay PvPing. Alot of times guilds say "fuck it" and pack up if they lose. This pressures them to keep fighting.

3. PvPers have to spend more gold than anyone else. Regs and supplies are not cheap. They also buy tons of Dono.

All great points... staff is continually trying to find ways to limit the amount of PKing and I think creating more consensual PVP is probably the way to do it. I know that EQMS will ALWAYS choose consensual faction PVP over PKing dungeons... in fact, the only time we ever goto dungeons is due to boredom from no other PVP groups having the balls to fight us(except the koreans from 8am-11am est).

More consensual PVP = less PKing = better UOF.

 

[Kird]

3. Create a faction/militia salary. You would receive a weekly score based on your participation in factions/militias with different metrics determining how much you receive in silver(or event points used to purchase aesthetic items ala old event score). Your weekly salarly would be increased for getting kills in consensual field PVP(factions, militias), for dying in consensual PVP(so that newbs are getting soemthing for trying it out), capturing objectives, etc. Your salary would receive a bonus for being in the smallest factions and you would receive a penalty for being in the largest faction.

4. Bring back a faction incentive at champs and RDAs. The faction RDA used to create a lot of PVP. Put the faction RDA inside a faction base and only allow factioners to go there. Additionally, increase the amount of champ score that a factioner gets at a champion spawn to encourage more participation in factions at champs/RDAs. The faction scroll used to also create lots of consensual PVP at champs and since its been taken away, champs seem to rarely have any PVP.

sounds great.
and remove mob aggro on reds, a tram feature that only hurts solo PKs.

 

[Arch Enemy]

Imo, the fun of pvping should be incentive enough. If people aren't pvping (consensually) on the largest free server there is, it's probably because the pvp system sucks (hint: it does)

Trying to add incentives for people who don't genuinely enjoy pvp only adds to the amount of newbs who learn nothing more than how to install sallos and make a target acquire hot key so that they have a chance at getting pixels.

And chances are those newbs aren't going to try to start their own zerg squad to compete with others. Why would they, when they can just join the already largest guild on the server for chump change and thus greatly increase their chances of getting more shiniez?

 

[Nekronos]

People have allied up against us for 10 years now... when there is an incentive to fight, you will see people putting aside their egos and joining forces to fight EQMS to win the prize. Hell, there's been an anti EQMS alliance going on 2+ months here... they just rarely actually do anything other than talk about how bad EQMS is(instead of actually fighting us).

Artificially trying to split up groups wont work as there will always be ways to circumvent things(unless friends list is removed and VOIP becomes forbidden).

Right so I should have said "more people to buy into your idea" rather than "more people participating" I agree that splitting the groups up forcibly may be worked around, but you already know what the perception is and as I like your ideas above, I would just urge you to be sensitive to that perception for your pitch.

Nothing stopping folks from all playing together, but you may need to work a little harder to corner 8 "kingdoms" than 4 is all I'm saying. Would make it harder to monopolize

 

[GluttonySDS]

Imo, the fun of pvping should be incentive enough. If people aren't pvping (consensually) on the largest free server there is, it's probably because the pvp system sucks (hint: it does)

Do you think that PVE would be done at all if there were no pixel rewards for it? How many people would do invasions if no pixels were gonna drop? RDAs? IDOCs?

Incentives makes people go out and do things and PVP should be no different....especially when active consensual PVP means less PKing.

Trying to add incentives for people who don't genuinely enjoy pvp only adds to the amount of newbs who learn nothing more than how to install sallos and make a target acquire hot key so that they have a chance at getting pixels.

PVP is one of the major reasons people get hooked on UO for 20 years... if there was no PVP(or threat of PVP) UO would be as dead as Aaron Hernandez. Giving people a reason to try out PVP is only going to make it more likely they get a taste of how fun killing cna be and stick around.

And chances are those newbs aren't going to try to start their own zerg squad to compete with others. Why would they, when they can just join the already largest guild on the server for chump change and thus greatly increase their chances of getting more shiniez?

Theres a number of different guilds that people(newbs or vet alike) can join, EQMS is only one of them. You sound like your big problem with this system is that you dont have any friends to play with, refuse to make them, and are worried instead that EQMS will just get stronger. Havent you read the PVP forums or seen discord... EQMS is a dying guild that is crumbling and losing all its players -- its time to stop trying to nerf mechanics/rules based on a dying guild.

 

[GluttonySDS]

Right so I should have said "more people to buy into your idea" rather than "more people participating" I agree that splitting the groups up forcibly may be worked around, but you already know what the perception is and as I like your ideas above, I would just urge you to be sensitive to that perception for your pitch.

Nothing stopping folks from all playing together, but you may need to work a little harder to corner 8 "kingdoms" than 4 is all I'm saying. Would make it harder to monopolize

As we speak now, POWER, $, WERKT, and $N$ are all joined in a common goal to defeat EQMS... they just lack leadership and any organization so they get steamrolled. Are we to punish guilds who are organized and have good leadership because their enemies do not posess the same skillset? Hell, these incentives might actually get them to actually try to fight their enemy instead of just crying about their enemy in discord.

 

[Nekronos]

As we speak now, POWER, $, WERKT, and $N$ are all joined in a common goal to defeat EQMS... they just lack leadership and any organization so they get steamrolled. Are we to punish guilds who are organized and have good leadership because their enemies do not posess the same skillset? Hell, these incentives might actually get them to actually try to fight their enemy instead of just crying about their enemy in discord.

I don't think you should be penalized, as a matter of fact eqms would still be able to leverage your success and strong suits in a system of 8 or whatever (how many dungeons are there?)
I liked your idea about controlling a dungeon (zone) and reaping taxes or something from that the most.
In a system of 8 or whatever groups, eqms could still dominate all 8, but you'd need to have members in each division. So it would be a little more difficult to monopolize, but not impossible, you'd just need to basically have a captain for each zone that you manage as the guild leader. You'd also need to make sure that your man got installed with control over the "faction" so you'd need to orchestrait quite the political maneuver to control all factions.

This way though, if I want to get paid out of the despise fund, I'm working for the Britian kingdom which may be "controlled" by eqms but in fact consists of any player participating in that "kingdom".

 

[Grish'nak]

I do like the idea of point of bloodshed. Id go even further and code it so certain skills are weak in certain dungeons (if that coding is possible)

One thing that puts me off the group pvp here is the lack of variation in tactics. More variables - offensive spells don't work, archery boost, unable to mount, unable to stealth, weak pots etc, would mean groups adapting tactics to control certain areas and mean one template couldn't control all

 

[Garillo]

Solid.

PvP should be profitable to an extent; not in the sense that you can join factions and farm currency on a PvMer, either.

Having pixels/colors exclusive to PvP (again, not from PvM farming faction allies/enemies) would be preferable. When people have a finite amount of time to play and prefer to PvP, it can be tiring having to PvM to sustain playtime.

 

[GluttonySDS]

I do like the idea of point of bloodshed. [/quote[

Thanks

One thing that puts me off the group pvp here is the lack of variation in tactics. More variables - offensive spells don't work, archery boost, unable to mount, unable to stealth, weak pots etc, would mean groups adapting tactics to control certain areas and mean one template couldn't control all

I've asked for more mechanics to spice up group PVP(bolas, wands, mount fatigue, AoE spells, additional items unique to factions).... all we got were wands.

 

[GluttonySDS]

Solid.

PvP should be profitable to an extent; not in the sense that you can join factions and farm currency on a PvMer, either.

Having pixels/colors exclusive to PvP (again, not from PvM farming faction allies/enemies) would be preferable. When people have a finite amount of time to play and prefer to PvP, it can be tiring having to PvM to sustain playtime.

Agreed... people always love to say "why should PVM characters be forced to PVP" when talking about how it sucks to be PKd or w/e. Youre not forced to PVP as a PVE character(especially given you can escape any fight you dont want to be in by recalling). However you are pretty much forced to PVE to make gold, even as a PVPer... this would allow PVPers to make pixels through PVPing, adding more consensual PVP and less PKing to the shard.

 

[Grish'nak]

I can see how all those additions would assist the current strong templates. What I'd prefer, and I accept that it's unlikely to ever come in, is a scenario where different templates are stronger in different areas.

That way if you don't just want to fight the ebolt war you have an alternative choice

 

[GluttonySDS]

I can see how all those additions would assist the current strong templates. What I'd prefer, and I accept that it's unlikely to ever come in, is a scenario where different templates are stronger in different areas.

That way if you don't just want to fight the ebolt war you have an alternative choice

Id love to see things like a dismount shot for archers using a crossbow or bolas only being able to be swung by dexxers or parrying templates be used to tank some rails a little better.... theres so many unique things they could do to spice up PVP, instead we have marathon Ebolt rails featuring scripted wand synchs.

 

[Nekronos]

Id love to see things like a dismount shot for archers using a crossbow or bolas only being able to be swung by dexxers or parrying templates be used to tank some rails a little better.... theres so many unique things they could do to spice up PVP, instead we have marathon Ebolt rails featuring scripted wand synchs.

Off topic and not to derail the original thread but what about every successful arrow shot added some stones to the targets weight, allowing for the ability to overload or 'pin to the ground' type thing. Nothing huge but a small perk for archery PvP...

 

[Bromista]

Lol