idocs

[Karl Sagan]

Bump for a good read remember like this post maybe our dedicated staff will revisit this issue pending player base opinions, thanks for staying on topic

1. Make the sign checks un-scriptable. Lots of ways to do this.

2. Go back to the normal timer.

3. That's it there is no step 3 because steps 1 and 2 solved all the issues.

4. Fine here's a step 4: get some kush and get your eyes low.

 

[Pikachu]

Idocs shouldn't be a play style... Basing your play style off of other people quitting the game... If anything, there should be no way to know a house will drop and you could be walking around and find stuff laying on the ground and that's just your luck and if it decays then those millions in checks aren't added back to the economy... Idocs are the lazy people's way to get rich you literally have to do nothing except watch tv and wait... Why play the game when you can just farm other people's shit?


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[halygon]

Idocs shouldn't be a play style... Basing your play style off of other people quitting the game... If anything, there should be no way to know a house will drop and you could be walking around and find stuff laying on the ground and that's just your luck and if it decays then those millions in checks aren't added back to the economy... Idocs are the lazy people's way to get rich you literally have to do nothing except watch tv and wait... Why play the game when you can just farm other people's shit?

There are so many things wrong with this statement that I don't know where to start.....but i will take a swing at it:

Idocs shouldn't be a play style... Basing your play style off of other people quitting the game...

Who are you to determine what someone else's play style should be? That is not up for you to decide. Period.

If anything, there should be no way to know a house will drop and you could be walking around and find stuff laying on the ground and that's just your luck and if it decays then those millions in checks aren't added back to the economy..

If there is no way to know when a house will drop, there is no way to know when you have to come back to refresh your house if you are lets say on vacation. Plus, the slight help to the economy does not anywhere out weight the ability to be able to choose IDOCs as a play style. There are folks that this is the only thing they like to do on UO -- they don't farm -- they don't pvp -- they just play the IDOC game. Again, who are you to screw them over?

Idocs are the lazy people's way to get rich you literally have to do nothing except watch tv and wait... Why play the game when you can just farm other people's shit?

I am guessing by this line that you have NEVER IDOC'd before. It takes more effort and time than ANY other play style in the game -- LITERALLY. Lazy people are the folks l who want to just hear about an idoc and show up for the fall and never put any effort into it. Those are the people that have convinced the staff to change the time tried process of IDOCs into a random wait game.

 

[lost]

yeah still hoping four hour random window gets reduced, its so life draining

 

[Spacejam60]

I'm interested in the four hour window going to one or two maybe please gms hear these people

 

[Pikachu]

They can put the status of your house on the gump, and how is there effort... You can have a character with 0 skills... You script and it shows on ur second account when it's falling and you can be on ur other account doing something else... I sat a char at an IDOC with scavenger when it fell I was on my other account and scavenged what I wanted not even looking at the screen... House placing scripts.... If they were completely unknown and just fell youd have people running around the world just for the thought something could be there, it would be much more interesting


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[Pikachu]

If no one stopped playing the game that would take idocs away itself, it should be a bonus to playing the game not a play style lol


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[Zoobler]

I have no idea how you would go about making the sign checks unscripable but if it is easily done then I have to agree with Karl...sounds like the most logical solution to me.

 

[Karl Sagan]

I have no idea how you would go about making the sign checks unscripable but if it is easily done then I have to agree with Karl...sounds like the most logical solution to me.

Bryce had an idea to put it as a gump so you couldn't just script a single click, another idea was to get rid of the verbal notice and just have the sign change color. I'm sure there are more ideas out there.

 

[Karl Sagan]

They can put the status of your house on the gump, and how is there effort... You can have a character with 0 skills... You script and it shows on ur second account when it's falling and you can be on ur other account doing something else... I sat a char at an IDOC with scavenger when it fell I was on my other account and scavenged what I wanted not even looking at the screen... House placing scripts.... If they were completely unknown and just fell youd have people running around the world just for the thought something could be there, it would be much more interesting


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yes what I am saying is make it unscriptable. AFKing an idoc isn't much evidence either way. If I had been on that idoc with a proper timer I would have come killed your afk guy before it fell, same goes for the pro idoccers out there.

Sitting AFK at an idoc does not mean you are 'do' idocs.

 

[halygon]

Bryce had an idea to put it as a gump so you couldn't just script a single click, another idea was to get rid of the verbal notice and just have the sign change color. I'm sure there are more ideas out there.

Personally I think the gump is a ******** idea because just think how f-ing long it will take to do it manually. ERMMMMAGERD!

Coloring the sign is cool though.

 

[Karl Sagan]

Personally I think the gump is a ******** idea because just think how f-ing long it will take to do it manually. ERMMMMAGERD!

Coloring the sign is cool though.

yeah neither was my idea but I think coloring the signs would be great on both ends. no more scripting and it would be a breezy checking the world.

 

[Pikachu]

I still think there's something a little wrong with hoping people quit for profit it's like hoping ur parents die for an inheritance lol less players means dead game, I understand there's no controlling it but I'd rather have the players and no idocs


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[Karl Sagan]

I'd rather have the players and no idocs


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No kidding so would all of us.

Now, since we live in reality and houses do in fact go idoc, perhaps we could discuss the pros and cons of various idoc mechanics?

I'm trying really hard not to just shit on you but it seems like you're arguing in bad faith.

 

[Skrypt]

No kidding so would all of us.

Now, since we live in reality and houses do in fact go idoc, perhaps we could discuss the pros and cons of various idoc mechanics?

I'm trying really hard not to just shit on you but it seems like you're arguing in bad faith.

There's a compromise here that should balance the system better than currently implemented.

That compromise is a shorter random timer (less than the current 4 hours), but not a perfect to the second timer.

1 hour seems appropriate.

Now... whats the best way to get a response from the admins whether this is something even open for debate or if this entire thread is wasting its time?

 

[Karl Sagan]

1 hour seems appropriate.

Now... whats the best way to get a response from the admins whether this is something even open for debate or if this entire thread is wasting its time?

1 hour is too long, 15-30 minutes max IMO.

As for getting a response, that seems unlikely. Idoccers have been complaining about this since the day it was introduced. There really is no good argument for the 4 hour window unless your goal is to FORCE people to sit idle for hours (or have a char running an awaiting script).

If someone wants to sit 4-8 hours that is fine, but boy it would be nice to go back to having the choice to put in those hours timing falls so I don't have to be online for hours and hours each idoc.

 

[Pikachu]

My only argument for idocs is that this game came out in 1997 so the majority of people playing are adults it would be safe to say... adults usually have jobs, children, more things to occupy their time... so it would be nice to be able to complete an idoc without sitting for hours on end... i would say maybe 2 hours is fair? or maybe during the week could be a shorter time period compared to the weekend? I'm not sure, i just know i don't do them because they take too long

 

[Shane]

I understand your guys' frustrations on this, but honestly.. You can go from POOR to RICH off 1 single idoc (4 hours of work).

If you seen what we seen before we had the random drop timer i think you would lean our way as well. Certain idoc guilds had 10+ houses timed within the 20 minutes of falling, one night i went to a bunch of idocs and the SAME guild scooped up 5 of them, plus all the loot, perfectly timed.

I added the loot up and with the plots it was over 10+ million worth of assets and items, and that was JUST ONE NIGHT.

It was all totally scripted/timed, and they were extremely organized. It was zero risk and all reward while putting next to no effort into the game.

This is why that timer went in, the 4 hour timer makes you pick and choose your IDOCS now, instead of having every single one timed (even the small ones) you only are going to put your time into the ones worth your while. So, in return, this leaves those smaller ones that you would of normally had timed as well and grabbed "just because you could" to newer players or amateur idocers which lets them get more invested and gets their foot in the economy.

If theres a castle IDOC with tons of rares/loot and you also know of a log cabin with SOME loot, you will get your entire guild on that castle because its worth your while. Leaving that Log Cabin to some newbie who feels like he just won the lottery because everyones at that castle.

I don't think i can explain it any better than that. Ask for changes based on the server as a whole and not for your behalf/betterment.

 

[Skrypt]

I understand your guys' frustrations on this, but honestly.. You can go from POOR to RICH off 1 single idoc (4 hours of work).

If you seen what we seen before we had the random drop timer i think you would lean our way as well. Certain idoc guilds had 10+ houses timed within the 20 minutes of falling, one night i went to a bunch of idocs and the SAME guild scooped up 5 of them, plus all the loot, perfectly timed.

I added the loot up and with the plots it was over 10+ million worth of assets and items, and that was JUST ONE NIGHT.

It was all totally scripted/timed, and they were extremely organized. It was zero risk and all reward while putting next to no effort into the game.

This is why that timer went in, the 4 hour timer makes you pick and choose your IDOCS now, instead of having every single one timed (even the small ones) you only are going to put your time into the ones worth your while. So, in return, this leaves those smaller ones that you would of normally had timed as well and grabbed "just because you could" to newer players or amateur idocers which lets them get more invested and gets their foot in the economy.

If theres a castle IDOC with tons of rares/loot and you also know of a log cabin with SOME loot, you will get your entire guild on that castle because its worth your while. Leaving that Log Cabin to some newbie who feels like he just won the lottery because everyones at that castle.

I don't think i can explain it any better than that. Ask for changes based on the server as a whole and not for your behalf/betterment.

Thank you for the response Shane.

I totally see and understand the points you made (your observations of that 10+ mil IDOC certainly makes the timer change warranted).

Keeping that in mind, I am curious if your team is open to an alternative solution while still preventing the core problems.

Main Issues (based on your comments)
- 1 guild / group dominate all the IDOC's and reap massive rewards
- New players / amateurs have little to no chance
- Exact timers encourage abusive scripting
- Zero Risk, All Reward (Get in, Get out)

The Solution (4 hour random timer)
- Forces guilds / groups to pick & choose IDOC's so that they can't win them all
- New players / amateurs have a fighting chance (IF they are patient)
- Random timer lessens the viability of scripting
- Better Risk / Reward (Risk of PvP death, Cost of waiting, Missed opportunities)

I agree this is a better solution than before. BUT, it still has some issues. Players with unlimited free time are now the most incentivized and lucrative IDOCers. Most players with a job and limited free time are now at a serious disadvantage because they simply cannot wait an indeterminate amount of time for an IDOC to fall. Where as before, these players could anticipate for an IDOC opportunity and know ahead of time when they could get in on it.


I propose a system that scales the random timer based on house size/cost to allow all players a balanced opportunity & risk / reward ratio.

7.75 hours + 0.25 hour random timer
- Small House
- 7x7

7.5 hours + 0.5 hour random timer
- Workshop
- Small Tower
- 9x9

7 hours + 1 hour random timer
- Sandstone Patio
- Log Cabin
- 11x11

6 hours + 2 hour random timer
- Large Patio
- Villa
- Brick House
- 13x13

5.5 hours + 2.5 hour random timer
- L-Shape
- Large Marble
- 14x14

5 hours + 3 hour random timer
- Large Tower
- 15x15

4.5 hours + 3.5 hour random timer
- Keep
- 16x16 and up

4 hours + 4 hour random timer
- Castle

Under a system like this, the larger rewarding houses take more of a time commitment forcing you to pick and choose. A very patient amateur / new player has an equal chance as a well organized guild.

The smaller houses (with less loot) fall on a more precise timer, allowing players who can't spend all day playing (job, life) a chance at scooping up some IDOC's. With the guilds focused on large houses (that could drop at any moment) it will free up these smaller rewards for new players & amateurs as well.

I think it's a balanced solution that is BEST for the shard by giving all players a chance.

 

[halygon]

I don't think i can explain it any better than that. Ask for changes based on the server as a whole and not for your behalf/betterment.

If you have read any posts I put down here I have never asked for changes that do not benefit the shard as a whole.

I do not agree that any random timer is a good thing. I feel that you instantly ruined a play style for quite a few dedicated players by doing that.

Hate scripting? Well fight scripting, not change the whole process. Karl presented to options earlier that have been brought up in the past.

The IDOCs right now are still being run by the same groups, you are right that smaller IDOCs are now up for grabs but at what cost to the veteran idoc community?

When I started here, I did nothing but IDOCs -- solo. I spent over a month straight identifying when houses change from one status to another -- that was a lot of effort. It allowed me to be competitive and actually get idoc loot because I have put in the time to play that game properly.

What you saw with one guild running it all is what happens on a shard that has a low pvper to pvmer ratio. The pvpers group up for profit and have no opposition when it comes to IDOCs.

It is now impossible for me to compete solo (or with a couple friends) at any idoc because it is no longer a skill game but a numbers game.

IMO you need to find a new solution to replace random drop times.