IDOC changes?

Status
Not open for further replies.
MZ3K

MZ3K

Grandmaster
drasked said:
You are fully able to fight back on your PVM template and be as successful as you intended your template to be. If you strip away any advantage you would have in a PVP scenario in favor of improving your PVM capabilities you are going to have a bad time in PVP, this seems pretty obvious.
Click to expand...

It is obvious - but it has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that there shouldn't be such a thing as PvM (only) capabilities. This idea of having PvM capabilities instead of PvP ones (or vice versa) is bunk and was pretty much non-existent in UO:R. There were just combat abilities on UO:R. It should be that way here.
 
GluttonySDS

GluttonySDS

Grandmaster
MZ3K -- you have a level 7 meta, you should not be complaining that your PVM tamer isnt good in PVP, I've seen @BEN! win 1v3's on his PVM tamer.
 
MZ3K

MZ3K

Grandmaster
GluttonySDS said:
MZ3K -- you have a level 7 meta, you should not be complaining that your PVM tamer isnt good in PVP, I've seen @BEN! win 1v3's on his PVM tamer.
Click to expand...

This really has nothing to do with my tamer. If you read my three suggestions - you'd note that none of them advocated a buff to tamers (or to anything on my tamer's template) and one of them advocated nerfing one of the skills that my tamer has (provo).

It's mostly just about missing the game I played when I was a kid: running around on my fencer fighting whatever came along (mobs or players). Having to log in on a different toon to fight someone just feels too artificial. Arguably, you can do that on a meta-dexxer or meta-mage. However, skills like arms-lore and spirit speak are too valuable in PvM not to have if PvM is part of what you want to do. Taking those skills means foregoing a skill that's useful in PvP. Template building is about trade-offs, but it was never really about trade-offs between PvP and PvM. It was about trade-offs between magic and melee or taming or even crafting. Combat skills were always just combat skills. That's what I miss.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
drasked

drasked

Grandmaster
Engelschmitt said:
You are basicly saying: "Make your PVM template into a PVP template if you don't want to be killed". Completely missing the point. Completely ignoring that both PVP and PVM are valid play styles. Completely ignoring that this shard has a ton of players who enjoy PVM and thus have PVM templates.

You said that you can fight versus a PVP template with a PVM template. I said that wasn't true. Your answer was that it's possible if you turn your PVM template into a PVP template - see what you did there?

Basic "only PVP is a valid play style, everyone needs to have PVP chars" crap.
Click to expand...

All i'm saying is that if you want to actually fight back with a template geared 100% towards PVM against a template 100% geared towards PVP you are going to have a bad time. This is a pretty dumb thing to do and if you get in to a PVP situation with a PVM template your objective should be to get the fuck out, this is already possible through the recall spell even made 100% functional for characters without magery.

Now if you PVM on a template not 100% geared towards PVM, for example, 5x mage with provo/music, you will be surprised at what you can accomplish if you're not a total trashcan.
 
GoD PaRtiCal

GoD PaRtiCal

Master
Engelschmitt said:
You are basicly saying: "Make your PVM template into a PVP template if you don't want to be killed". Completely missing the point. Completely ignoring that both PVP and PVM are valid play styles. Completely ignoring that this shard has a ton of players who enjoy PVM and thus have PVM templates.

You said that you can fight versus a PVP template with a PVM template. I said that wasn't true. Your answer was that it's possible if you turn your PVM template into a PVP template - see what you did there?

Basic "only PVP is a valid play style, everyone needs to have PVP chars" crap.
Click to expand...
No, if you go full *...er.. PVM, then yes, your character will not be great in PvP, but it can still PvP. If your character is full asshole.err. PVP, then yes, your character will not be great in PvM. These are both extremes and if you make an extreme character, then you need to understand the downsides. If you want to do both, then you need to have a balanced character temp.

I guess what I am saying is if you really want to be a full *, have a backup asshole or don't be either.
 
J

Jongi09

Master
I saw rumours of this before I took a holiday. I return and see it implemented. Such a shame. Another clear sign that this shard is getting further away from the type of shard I want to play. I'll not bother logging in again.
 
MZ3K

MZ3K

Grandmaster
GoD PaRtiCal said:
I guess what I am saying is if you really want to be a full *, have a backup asshole or don't be either.
Click to expand...

What I'm saying is that the trade off during UO:R was never between PvM and PvP. It was between the individual combat skills. But whatever you chose, you could fight players or mobs with it.

IMO, most of this has to do with provo being way too powerful against mobs, alchemy being way too weak against mobs and too strong against players, and spirit speak and arms lore only working on mobs.
 
GoD PaRtiCal

GoD PaRtiCal

Master
MZ3K said:
What I'm saying is that the trade off during UO:R was never between PvM and PvP. It was between the individual combat skills. But whatever you chose, you could fight players or mobs with it.

IMO, most of this has to do with provo being way too powerful against mobs, alchemy being way too weak against mobs and too strong against players, and spirit speak and arms lore only working on mobs.
Click to expand...
IDK if UOF is a straight up UOR server... Its more like a "If UOR had not be screwed up and continued to evolve" server. Shit changes and if you don't, you stifle and die.
 
MZ3K

MZ3K

Grandmaster
GoD PaRtiCal said:
IDK if UOF is a straight up UOR server... Its more like a "If UOR had not be screwed up and continued to evolve" server. Shit changes and if you don't, you stifle and die.
Click to expand...

Says the guy who said "Don't change the PvP ruleset" to open his conversation with me.

I agree, change happens. It isn't necessarily good or bad. I think unifying the purpose of combat templates would be a good change.

Since we've just established that change in itself isn't bad - any relevant reply would say why it wouldn't be a good change.
 
Shane

Shane

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah as much as people want us to stay pure UO:R you can't do that. Look at uo second age who dedicated themselves to being ONLY T2A right down o the bugs. They instantly set an expiry date on themselves the minute they made that choice.

We can't just not evolve, and although people might not like the changes, not adding anything into the game is FAR FAR worse and we wouldn't be here today if we hadn't. I mean even with all the additional content people still get bored after power gaming.

This change wasn't needed back when uo had 30,000 people on one server. If we had that many people we would not be making this change what so ever- it wouldn't be needed. Although we have the largest server out there, there's not enough competition between idocs to make the idoc system work- it's kinda like the faction system. So with that, and taking into consideration how the minds of the average gamer are far beyond what they were when this idoc system was originally thought up back in what? 1998? I think it's safe to say a change is needed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top