VFingerDiscount
Grandmaster
I'll never understand what a cheater thinks he's accomplishing... yay I pushed a button that did everything for me, aren't I awesome guys?
Sent from Baja 1997
Sent from Baja 1997
Fix Explosion Pots
- Thread starter wetbreasts
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Drake Roberts
Grandmaster
Actually, If you follow the conversation back.. You said that Razor was just as capable and could do all the same shit Steam can do, except that Steam is far less complicated and doesn't have compatibility issues. It wasn't limited to a simple ass version of an explosion pot macro. I love that you are now back pedaling and adjusting your stance. GG
and you must not know what all is in that auto steal script.. It is far more complex than anything I described for the exp pots.
No, I asked you to show me what you said... That Razor is capable of doing the fully automated shit that steam is capable of and that you said razor was also capable of. I believe you said a person would have to be a brain-dead idiot to think that you can't do this. I am still waiting. Where is my fully automated auto steal script for Razor, you brain dead idiot? All those macros listed in that ABC UO site are nothing in comparison to the fully automated scripts we have been discussing. The person who wrote that thread even said themselves "It [RAZOR] is not as good as other programs but it can be ok for mid-high PvPers."
So your own source disagrees with you. Did you even bother reading that shit? Are you a brain-dead idiot? Where is the 1 button fully automated stealing Scripts at for razor?
Sure thing, gimp.
Also, why the fuck are you posting links to other free shards? I would expect your wiki writing ass to at least know the forum rules.. I guess since you are a gimp, instead of coming up with your own examples of the shit that you claim any brain-dead idiot should be able to do, you scoured the internet to find any close example you could find (Use crutches much?).. Too bad your source says herself that Razor is not on the same level as other programs and her list of macros she gives are nothing in comparison to the fully automated shit seen in the stealing script. GG
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halygon
Grandmaster
Again, I believe you are having trouble reading again, you should really graduate elementary school. No one is backpedaling, except for you all over this thread. You have changed your stance multiple times. I am consistent.
I have referred to your description of some mythical exp pot script since you posted it. Since you have trouble reading, here it is for your reference:
^^^THIS is what I said cannot be done with UOSteam.
Never did I ever say Razor was capabale of "all the same shit" steam can do. I said that and I quote..
In reality, YOU made that up. Here is YOUR quote:
So, lets backtrack even further to the read YOU are referring to:
http://uoforum.com/threads/controversial-much-auto-steal.36494/#post-228696
There is nothing in there as you have referenced. Stop posting lies that you cannot prove.
I am glad that you read THE FIRST 3 LINES of the link I posted. It shows that you truly do not even know what you are arguing about (which is pretty much this whole thread). You asked for a fully automated script on razor, since you so OBVIOUSLY proved that UOSteam can do it. That is exactly what I provided. It proves that it is possible in Razor and that is my point.
BTW, feel free to provide a link to the Shard Rules to backup your statements there.
--- Waiting on proof of any of your claims or quotes ---
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Drake Roberts
Grandmaster
Sure thing jack ass. You've only shown that you are consistently a dumb ass. Just like with the tinker box confusion you had.. You've shown yourself to be a * throughout. I'd quote your post from the first thread this conversation started in, where you said that Razor could do all the same shit Steam does, but Adam deleted all the ******** shit you and experience had posted in that thread and then asked everyone to stop flaming and stay on topic.
Whether or not you admit it now, I am glad you are at least back pedaling and readjusting your arguments. So it isn't just that steam runs smoother and doesn't have compatibility issues any more?.. You are finally accepting that steam is far more capable of scripting than razor? Thank you. GG
Staff seems to view it and feel the same way about it.
Maybe that is why Shane said that he feels Razor is a well balanced program.. and that steams scripting capabilities are a huge problem for the server. Which is why they are willing to invest in an assistant creator to make a new program..
Again, I'll turn the question you asked me, back on you (don't dodge this time). Do you think Shane and the rest of the staff are idiots? Do you think they don't know the capabilities of the programs allowed on their server? Why is Shane saying that steam is a problem and razor isn't? Why even bother investing in a new third party program to replace steam?
*waits for the dodging and random tangents*
And the only real problem staff see with Razor, is that gimps like yourself are threatening to quit if that is all they can use.. So they are trying to find a replacement that will appease the gimps (people like you).
Those macros you posted a link to are nothing remotely close to what we have been discussing. Again, where is my fully automated stealing script that does everything the one on uosteam does? You said Razor was capable of doing the same exact shit. That the only difference was that steam was easier to use, ran smoother, and didn't have compatibility issues. I'd quote you but Adam had to clean up that thread because of all the ******** shit you and experience had posted. At least your inconsistent gimp ass is changing your stance, whether you admit it or not. GG
wetbreasts
Novice
I have designed an explosion pot script that i am confident will demonstrate to the devs exactly how OP they are and why explosion pots should not be a part of competitive pvp. It was made with openEUO and is 60 lines. If the devs are interested i can send it to them. You can be sure as shit a bunch of other people have scripts this good. It was easy as fuck to make, and i dont even know lua.
(inb4 ass burgers try to get me banned, no admission to actually using the script here)
(inb4 ass burgers try to get me banned, no admission to actually using the script here)
Rhadamanthys
Expert
I was busy a while to get into uos scripting. Crazy what u can all do and i only touched the surface. Its beyond me why any server would allow this application. Makes no sense to me.
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Gesendet von meinem Nokia 6610 mit Tapatalk
halygon
Grandmaster
I said "keep your shit locked up" I didn't realize I would have folks trying to use a literal translation of an obvious figure of speech.
Yes, you did flame quite a bit as I tried to explain to you how stealing works on this shard. Which from what was NOT deleted, anyone can tell that you really don't know the exact mechanics. Kinda shocking seeing how you claim to be the best thief ever seen on this shard.
No back pedaling needed with your convoluted arguments. You backpetal for me -- see above statement. Just to ensure you get a full response -- check my last post and previous posts about how I stated that Razor and UOSteam are not equal in many ways.
None of the staff are idiots, but as I have said on multiple threads, I do not agree with the staff 100% of the time. Keep in mind that just because Shane voices his opinion on something, does not make it right or factual. He can implement whatever he wants on UOF, that is his right -- but that doesn't mean it is the correct decision. I completely disagree with Shane on Razor. I think more people abuse Razor with easyUO than those with UOSteam and extravagant auto-macros. You can go read my post on the assistant creator thread that was started. I said that I would welcome a new program to replace BOTH Razor and UOSteam because if you are going to split hairs, they are both inherently capable of automated play.
*Waits for proof of anything Drake claims*
I wasn't the one that quit for several months like you. When AssistUO was temporarily banned, I switched back to Razor and didn't bat an eye. It sucked for my crafter though.
I did? Where was that at?
Great explanation why you cannot quote me on something you made up. And you say I dodge...
Drake Roberts
Grandmaster
You went off on a tangent arguing random bs that had nothing to do with anything.. Which shows that it is you that lacks basic comprehension. Or maybe it is your rage that blinds you.. like when you wrote that 31 line "script", lmao.
Yes.. You, a no-name nobody in all spheres of the game, be it pvp, stealing or what have you... was explaining how stealing works on this shard, to me.. lol.. Maybe you were just failing to comprehend again the same way you did with the tinker trapped boxes?
I don't have to claim that I was the best thief on the shard when I was most actively playing. My success I have had speaks for itself. The most respected veterans of this shard, friends and foes alike, have told me the same. Besides that, my success I had has been unmatched. That is why it pisses me off so bad to see these scripts out there making what I was able to do, a easy thing. It was hard as fuck to learn and accomplish what I was able to do with my thief. It didn't happen over night, and it took a lot of trial and error. It wasn't effortless.
You were the idiot asking those rhetorical questions to me first. I just turned them around on you because based off what Shane and the rest of the staff are saying, they have seen the problems with the scripting capabilities of steam first hand.. and They say it is a problem on steam. Not razor.
If people are using easy uo to work in conjunction with razor (something I honestly didn't even know was possible) then that is a problem too. My beef is not specifically or exclusively with steam. It is with the ridiculous scripting capabilities of these programs. Razor on it's own, I know based off my personal experience, is nothing in comparison to steam with it's scripting capabilities. Which is probably why Shane said himself that he felt that razor is a well balanced program.
If razor were/is creating problems like the ones that steam is.. Then I'd say the same damn thing about razor. Get rid of that shit.
I never "quit". I became less active. It wasn't when the steam ban was lifted either. I was one of the people saying to lift the ban just for the sake of bringing back all the people who quit. Me becoming less active had to do with more than just one thing. For instance, I have a real life, with a growing son who sleeps less and wants to play with dad more. Even now that I have been trying to play a little more, it is nothing in comparison to how active I was before.. but NO DOUBT, the fact that people are using fully automated scripts makes me much less interested in becoming fully active and immersed the way I was before. No one wants to play with cheaters. No one likes playing counter strike on a server full of aim botters and wall hackers.
Okay, so you admit that Steam is far more capable of scripting fully automated pvp/stealing scripts than Razor? Thanks, that is all I wanted to hear.
Then stop arguing that steam isn't a problem and that razor can do all the same shit. Thanks.
The scripting capabilities of steam are a problem. What these scripts are capable of, is on the same level as easy uo. Which is why Shane said that people using these steam scripts, aren't "playing the game" they are scripting. Pushing 1 button to automatically snoop someone within range, and automatically steal preset item types in the main pack, and if none found, to proceed searching every other container within the main pack, and then automatically steal the preset item types, all within a seconds time... is a huge problem. That is why it is such a huge issue that they are willing to spend money on getting this fixed.
If razor can do that too, then razor is a problem too.. but you have yet to show a single example of a razor macro nearly this complex or capable.
Regardless, the new assist program is supposed to replace both razor and steam.. and hopefully will get rid of all the scripting that is going on.
halygon
Grandmaster
Now we are getting into a mostly civil conversation. Only took 4 pages.
On uoforever, when AssistUO came out, many folks did not want to move to it because it doesn't allow them to use their secret easyUO scripts with it like Razor is notorious for. AssistUO (and now UOSteam) set boundaries on the abilities of scripts -- like no variables, no clock fuctions, and a very limited conditional functions (IF, WHILE, FOR) -- pretty much the same functions that are in Razor -- but not exactly the same. UOSteam was also developed with ALL freeshards in mind instead of just one. This obviously became a problem and so UOF and other shards needed better negotiation (server side) features. I think if the UOSteam project still continued, then additional server-side features could be implemented to fully satisfy less "Pro" servers like UOF that want a better balance between their players.
Maybe for the sake of exp pot scripts, stealing scripts, and whatever else people complain about -- UOF should take over the UOSteam project, which I think has had the source code released(?). No reason to reinvent the wheel.
In the mean time, additional changes can be made, like the snooping cool down period you agreed on. Personally I don't think exp pot throwing macro's make any difference at all in PvP -- other than cause problems. So no changes probably need to be made for that.
Drake Roberts
Grandmaster
Look man.. I know we got off on the wrong foot when we first started this conversation in the thread that Adam had to delete all that shit in.. Since then, I know I've been a dick towards you. I am sorry. I don't even know who you are in game.. and my beef is not with you. I just want the fully automated scripting shit to be dealt with, same as so many other people.. The capabilities that steam has with scripting are really advanced.. and like nothing I have ever seen on razor..
Believe it or not, but even though I hate what these steam scripts are capable of.. I have given my 2 cents to the staff and I have said from the beginning that I feel that banning steam will just result with the loss of players like what happened last time.. Everyone (including myself) has been trying to think of a way to neutralize this problem without just throwing out steam all together. Unfortunately, since the devs from steam abandoned ship.. It is really hard for Adam to disable things in steam to neutralize this problem.. Especially since if you disable one of the things used in the script, it will effect much more than what is happening in just this one script.. Which is why, I am sure, they have decided to just make their own assist program.
No one wants to lose any of the population.. That is why instead of just banning steam again.. They are trying to come up with another solution. Most people who use steam, refuse to play on razor.. even though the staff has much more control over what is allowed through razor and they feel it is a well balanced program.., they would rather spend money to replace both steam and razor programs, than lose the part of the population who just refuses to use razor.
Believe it or not, but even though I hate what these steam scripts are capable of.. I have given my 2 cents to the staff and I have said from the beginning that I feel that banning steam will just result with the loss of players like what happened last time.. Everyone (including myself) has been trying to think of a way to neutralize this problem without just throwing out steam all together. Unfortunately, since the devs from steam abandoned ship.. It is really hard for Adam to disable things in steam to neutralize this problem.. Especially since if you disable one of the things used in the script, it will effect much more than what is happening in just this one script.. Which is why, I am sure, they have decided to just make their own assist program.
No one wants to lose any of the population.. That is why instead of just banning steam again.. They are trying to come up with another solution. Most people who use steam, refuse to play on razor.. even though the staff has much more control over what is allowed through razor and they feel it is a well balanced program.., they would rather spend money to replace both steam and razor programs, than lose the part of the population who just refuses to use razor.
Drake Roberts
Grandmaster
lmao.. I guess we both posted about the same time. Talking about my son really brings me back to reality and helps me realize how childish all the name calling is..
And I am sorry if I offended anyone else with any of the slurs I used. I have nothing against handicapped people or mentally challenged people.. It is just so easy to time travel back to 1997 and get into a flame war back and forth on here.
wetbreasts
Novice
Then make throwing an explosion pot require mana or stamina. It is ******** that this moving shot equivalent can be used by anyone without any sort of downside. 20 damage every 5 seconds without fail, no way to prevent or stop it. All you can do is get out of range, and when that range is 12 tiles, you don't have many options. It doesnt make sense, and all it does is lower the skill ceiling and elevate bad players.
There needs to be something, some kind of risk/reward for using them, unless we are all ok with pvp being nothing more than a joke. I know its fun for scrubs to feel like they are doing something, but rather than encouraging this mindless shit, we should be working to help make bad players better. There is no place for explosion pots in competitive pvp.
There needs to be something, some kind of risk/reward for using them, unless we are all ok with pvp being nothing more than a joke. I know its fun for scrubs to feel like they are doing something, but rather than encouraging this mindless shit, we should be working to help make bad players better. There is no place for explosion pots in competitive pvp.
K A Z
Grandmaster
sense ?
wetbreasts
Novice
Yes sense, as in "It doesnt make any sense that any player can pick up alchemy and freely spam 20 damage at you from 12 tiles away endlessly without any repercussions or drawbacks."
Sorry i offended you raged, that wasn't my intent. I am sure you dont need exp pots to b gud.
halygon
Grandmaster
Its cool man, i got a 8 month old, so i know where you are coming from.
halygon
Grandmaster
I guess we are at the heart of this thread now?
It was not so much about a certain exp pot macro but the un-interruptable damage that a potion can do.. There was the ability to kick pots, but was stopped (which sucks cause I am good at it) because other folks did it with a macro and many alchys yelled out to the staff that it was unfair. Other than that, there is very little you can do to stop a potion from connecting.
Unfortunately for you, @wetbreasts (damn, what a name), you are upset about base UO mechanics that most folks enjoy.
Experience
Grandmaster
I think we just need to add a delay for stealing and explo pots both...couple second delay between snoop and steal...and few seconds between throwing a pot and readying the next...
halygon
Grandmaster
There is already a delay before you can use exp pots again.
wetbreasts
Novice
I wasnt referencing any exp pot scripts in particular, or saying that UOSteam has to be blocked, but rather that because the system is so simplistic, it allows scripts to compete at a level equal to or higher than legit players, meaning that there is very little incentive not to use them. My argument has always been that since explosion pots have an extremely low skill factor and since they are so easy to abuse with scripts, they should be disincentivized in pvp. This Exp pot system artificially elevates the skill level of bad players and provides a strong and unnecessary crutch for good players who then become even better and cause even more damage.
There is no thinking, no intelligence, and no situational awarness about explosion pots, and therefore nothing you as a person can do with your brain to outperform the script. You decide if you can remain within 12 tiles of them, and then when you are ready you click the pot, wait a couple seconds, and then target them, and that's what the script does too, just with 10x better timing.
It's not that i am upset because i am dying to them, but rather that i am disappointed that a thriving and relatively good shard supports and even encourages exploitation of bad game mechanics. It's not like this shard would suddenly die if exp pots were nerfed. It's just the players who were crutching them would be temporarily upset, and then they would move on and get better at the game. That's how it is with any unbalanced game mechanic that needs to be nerfed.
And again, i made a script that can demonstrate this point better than i could ever argue, so if the devs are interested i can send it to them or show them in game if they permit.
Anyways, endless 95% hit chance 20 damage "moving shots" that can be used with any template by any player without any invested time or experience does not make for good pvp, and that's all i really have to say on the matter. The dev's have seen this thread, and that's all i can ask for. I am not going to hang around arguing with hasbeens like kaz who have been crutching exp pots and their scripts for over a decade and know no other way to play the game.
There is no thinking, no intelligence, and no situational awarness about explosion pots, and therefore nothing you as a person can do with your brain to outperform the script. You decide if you can remain within 12 tiles of them, and then when you are ready you click the pot, wait a couple seconds, and then target them, and that's what the script does too, just with 10x better timing.
It's not that i am upset because i am dying to them, but rather that i am disappointed that a thriving and relatively good shard supports and even encourages exploitation of bad game mechanics. It's not like this shard would suddenly die if exp pots were nerfed. It's just the players who were crutching them would be temporarily upset, and then they would move on and get better at the game. That's how it is with any unbalanced game mechanic that needs to be nerfed.
And again, i made a script that can demonstrate this point better than i could ever argue, so if the devs are interested i can send it to them or show them in game if they permit.
Anyways, endless 95% hit chance 20 damage "moving shots" that can be used with any template by any player without any invested time or experience does not make for good pvp, and that's all i really have to say on the matter. The dev's have seen this thread, and that's all i can ask for. I am not going to hang around arguing with hasbeens like kaz who have been crutching exp pots and their scripts for over a decade and know no other way to play the game.
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