Fix Discording Pets

[N49ATV]

I never said you discord people. But if your a tamer, you are most likely down 300-360 skill points. And your pets have lost attack power/defenses, and that's going to be your primary way to fight off a PK, Grey etc. so you are weakened.

And if no one uses it here, but a select few. Then what's the issue with making it another one of the custom things about this RunUO server? Logically it makes sense, and will add more potential for consensual PvP.

 

[halygon]

I never said you discord people. But if your a tamer, you are most likely down 300-360 skill points. And your pets have lost attack power/defenses, and that's going to be your primary way to fight off a PK, Grey etc. so you are weakened.

And if no one uses it here, but a select few. Then what's the issue with making it another one of the custom things about this RunUO server? Logically it makes sense, and will add more potential for consensual PvP.

A pet that is Discorded is still a beast vs a player... Discord is truly only useful to three things and one of those isn't even done on this shard.

• Discord mobs so you can take them down easier
• Discord your pets while training them (who does this here? Pets are sooo easy to 7x in a dungeon)
• Discord other peoples pets to grief them

So you are saying.. wth let's make it so we can't be griefed.. that sounds like a great idea. That's great for YOU perhaps, but what about those players that choose a playstyle of griefing? How is that balanced for them? This is not a Trammel server, so griefing is fair play. It is a CHOICE that players get to make. Choices are what makes this game great, not the ability to take down a Balron with your over powered dragon.

 

[N49ATV]

I don't have pets, so it doesn't affect me directly. But if you choose to grief, shouldn't you flag crim at minimum. It's trammel to expect to be able to grief, and have to have your mark to take a count to stop it.

It seems that you are most likely one of the people who want to grief on a blue, and dual client. I'm all for griefing, and open PvP, but not everyone wants to go red, and get stated, because someone wants to run around on a blue, directly affecting their game, with 0 consequence.

Why not make a 5x Mage with music disco to kill Tamers when they attack you because you disco their pets. That's all good in my books. But if it's about what you think should happen so you can grief, to continue your play style, your in the same boat as the ones asking for changes, by not asking for it to change.

Basic logic should prevail here, and it should change

 

[halygon]

I don't have pets, so it doesn't affect me directly. But if you choose to grief, shouldn't you flag crim at minimum. It's trammel to expect to be able to grief, and have to have your mark to take a count to stop it.

Actually its trammel to expect to have to go crim to grief. Trust me it is truly a good time to disco a bunch of pets and see them shimmer, then herd them off down the road to play hide and seek with their owners. No real harm is being done AND it can all be avoided by the pet owner.

It seems that you are most likely one of the people who want to grief on a blue, and dual client. I'm all for griefing, and open PvP, but not everyone wants to go red, and get stated, because someone wants to run around on a blue, directly affecting their game, with 0 consequence.

Maybe you shouldn't make ASSumptions about people you do not know. You couldn't be more wrong. The reason I post like I do is because I RESPECT all types of players, regardless if it is MY play style or MY values. Hell I hate griefers like anyone else, but its still fun to play one and you have to RESPECT those that chose to do so also -- not nerf the hell out of them because it doesn't jive with YOUR play style or values. Grow up.

Why not make a 5x Mage with music disco to kill Tamers when they attack you because you disco their pets. That's all good in my books. But if it's about what you think should happen so you can grief, to continue your play style, your in the same boat as the ones asking for changes, by not asking for it to change.

I would love to see you try to use Discord as a means for killing tamer's pets... that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard.

 

[N49ATV]

I'm not saying disco pets to kill them. Disco pet, when owner attacks or all kills, dodge pet, and drop owner with 5x Mage/dexxer, take all the loot. But standing next to someone you are directly applying negative effects on (in this case pets with disco), staring at them blue, making them flag on you, and possible giving counts to if they do anything, is a trammel mentality. Sometimes you have to take counts. Maybe to chase someone off what your doing. But if they come in to grief you, they should flag, and you should then have a CHOICE to attack, knowing the possible outcome. Same as attacking a red in town. But people shouldn't have to decide to take a count to chase off a griefer, who is performing negative actions on them/pets.

 

[N49ATV]

Herding is fine. You are not performing a negative action on anything. Disco is a larger version of curse spell.

Grow up? I'd say the average age on this game is 30. I don't have an issue with PKs, or griefers. But if you grief, and perform negative actions you should flag. Res kill till someone logs. You should take counts. Which is how it works. Steal from someone, you go grey to them. Attack pets to lure, you go grey

Scam someone on ethy, you stay blue. Makes sense. Kill overtop of someone farming, and loot a grey corpse. Makes sense to stay blue, and you earned rights. Abusing a mechanic that us flawed, should not afford you the right to stay blue. Who cares if you go grey for 2 mins. What's the problem?

 

[Xigam]

If they make this change you could still discord pets and grief players.. you would just be grey for doing it.

You act like if this change were made you would no longer be able to grief players, but in reality there would just be more risk associated with greifing.

You could still grief people but you wouldn't have your trammel shield anymore.

 

[halygon]

If they make this change you could still discord pets and grief players.. you would just be grey for doing it.

You act like if this change were made you would no longer be able to grief players, but in reality there would just be more risk associated with greifing.

You could still grief people but you wouldn't have your trammel shield anymore.

Do you guys know what Grief means in the context of UO?

 

[Xigam]

Do you guys know what Grief means in the context of UO?

Why don't you share with us your twist on the definition..

 

[halygon]

Why don't you share with us your twist on the definition..

I will do better, I will give you examples:

• A thief, Stiky FingerZ, follows you around and pops all of your pouches.
• A herder (N49ATV in this case) runs off with your nightmare or other (non drag/ww) pets and traps them in a house.
• A discorder discords your pets while they are fighting big mobs to make it die quicker
• N49ATV pulls in massive amounts of spawn to where you are farming to kill you and your pets off
• Xigam builds walls of stones around you so that you are trapped with spawn attacking you
• N49ATV decides to create death gates by opening a gate to the orc dungeon in a location that is blocked so that when you go through you cannot move but are surrounded by Orc brutes -- you die instantly because the gate is conveniently closed before you can go back through.
• Your miner is full and is "walking" several hundred ores to the forge and a player comes up and won't leave you alone because he acts like he is going to take your ore if you put it down
• A Pirate finds you fishing and drops a bunch of nets around your boat to draw massive spawn

All of these can be done while blue and the player doing them will stay blue after the fact. Just because you are griefing someone by doing some action, DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU SHOULD BE GREY BY DOING IT. Thinking that someone should turn grey for these actions are your "Trammel" thoughts for you.

 

[N49ATV]

Grief is grief. UO or not. PKing and dry looting is a form of grief. But that's part of it. You died, your shit belongs to the PK. Scamming someone is grief, but involves the victim's input to happen, so it's on them for handing over pixels/cash.

Grief is causing hardship on other people. And it's a free world out there (in fel rule set) but you shouldn't be able to drop 20% of stats/skills of anything blue to you, and stay blue.


Just explain to me, and others who think it should change, why you can take 20% of a blue targets stats and skills and remain blue.

 

[N49ATV]

Ok let's look at your list,

Thief popping pouches should flag grey. But this is due to pouches causing damage to holder. If I pop my pouches, I take 4 damage. So thieves should flag grey at min, but not as attack. Because you could suicide, and boot them. It's a tough one to balance.

Herder, you can run and get on. Or run past, and gate out. Also a little bit tough to find a balance.

Discord is taking 20% skills/stats. Should flag.

Luring spawn. You can see it coming.

Walls of stone drop pretty fast. I doubt one guy could keep you boxed in.

Death gate requires a player to click continue. They have input in this.

Ore, shouldn't fill that much. And you are not causing any harm in it. You are just standing there. It's now a waiting game to see who values their time more.

Pirate. If your just fishing. Sail away, or hide on boat.

Only one of these are you imposing a skill, and target onto a blue, and causing a direct negative effect. The rest are bi products of actions. This isn't about luring spawn. It's about using a skill, targeting a blue, and applying negative effects.

 

[halygon]

I wasn't going to reply, seeing how well you are doing replying to yourself, but I'm extra bored at work.

Ok let's look at your list,

Yes, lets!

Thief popping pouches should flag grey. But this is due to pouches causing damage to holder. If I pop my pouches, I take 4 damage. So thieves should flag grey at min, but not as attack. Because you could suicide, and boot them. It's a tough one to balance.

Sure about all that? When a thief pops a pouch, it hurts the THEIF. They are setting off the traps on themselves. You cannot suicide and count them. Real easy to balance -- Leave it as is as it is perfectly fine.

Herder, you can run and get on. Or run past, and gate out. Also a little bit tough to find a balance.

You sure about this one too? You are going to try to run away while I herd your pets? I guess you *could* mount the pet if it is mountable, but whatcha going to do about your other pets or if you have two mares with you? I will tell you -- its simple -- two words -- All Come. Now this one is extremely easy to balance -- Leave it as is as it is perfectly fine.

Discord is taking 20% skills/stats. Should flag.

I am disappointed that you don't even try with this one. I will help you:

Discord is taking 20% skills/stats. You can run and get on. Or run past, and gate out. You could also invis your pet or walk a screen away. It's a tough one to balance.

I am not so sure that this is tough to balance -- Leave it as is as it is perfectly fine.

Luring spawn. You can see it coming.

You are right, it is perfectly fine as it so leave it alone.

Walls of stone drop pretty fast. I doubt one guy could keep you boxed in.

Pretty inexperienced eh? That's ok, the answer here is yes, one guy can keep you boxed in long enough for a mob to kill you. The wall can also be placed just at the right time.. like when you are running to heal up from your 20hp. SOOO.... yup you called it... Perfectly fine as is so leave it alone.

Moving on....

Death gate requires a player to click continue. They have input in this.

I am sure glad you keep agreeing with me. No change required here -- Griefing Approved!

Ore, shouldn't fill that much. And you are not causing any harm in it. You are just standing there. It's now a waiting game to see who values their time more.

Hehe.. and wait they do... I am SURE that this doesn't piss them off at all.

Pirate. If your just fishing. Sail away, or hide on boat.

What if you are afk? OR what if the spawn has blocked your boat from moving? But again, absolutely right.. this griefing is approved too.

Only one of these are you imposing a skill, and target onto a blue, and causing a direct negative effect. The rest are bi products of actions. This isn't about luring spawn. It's about using a skill, targeting a blue, and applying negative effects.

Last time I checked, herding was a skill that required an actual target. Snooping requires using SOMEONE ELSES item (backpack). Doesn't wall of stone also let you target a blue player? hmm.. yup!

 

[N49ATV]

What I'm saying with thief is if it blows up in my pack it should damage me. I don't want flagging to work that way, or we would kill thieves. But why wouldn't a thief snooping my pop pouches, blowing them all up not flag grey to me? If a beer explodes in my backpack while quadding, I get wet. I pisses me off when pouches are popped, but I accept it as just that. Being dinks. So whatever, but going grey to just me (same as perma grey on theft) would suffice as a flag on pop pouches, and allow attacks in town. Outta town, just hammer on them. Allows for more PvP in town, more Noto killing. What's not to like?

Herding. Yes some animals your screwed with. Easier to mount, or just gate all come.

You just don't get the disco. By your theory casting any debuff on a blue pet of someone else should be good to go aswell.

I realize I am ASSuming you use it, or guild/friends do it, because you love seeing it. And this would affect how you grief. It's a direct negative effect put upon a blue target. It should flag crim. what's the problem with going grey? This is fel isn't it?

And yes wall of stone does let you target a blue player. And it builds a wall around you. Good luck having someone stand still long enough to get a cross.

 

[N49ATV]

Actually its trammel to expect to have to go crim to grief. Trust me it is truly a good time to disco a bunch of pets and see them shimmer, then herd them off down the road to play hide and seek with their owners. No real harm is being done AND it can all be avoided by the pet owner.

This suggests to me you or your group use this, and hence why you don't want it changed. Because I'm sure this is so common, you just stumble across it in the Brit GY

 

[halygon]

You just don't get the disco. By your theory casting any debuff on a blue pet of someone else should be good to go aswell.

Nah, casting is magery and that is direct damage. Disco is a skill, there is no such thing as a direct damage skill.

 

[halygon]

This suggests to me you or your group use this, and hence why you don't want it changed. Because I'm sure this is so common, you just stumble across it in the Brit GY

I HAVE NEVER USED THIS TACTIC .. on this shard.

 

[TheFallen]

Sure make disco flag of you Target a blue then you can cast reflect and noto kill the tamer when he attacks you. Good thing reflect was changed.

 

[TheFallen]

In all seriousness it's a rare occurrence but it is a direct attack to your pet and I really don't see a problem with this causing flagging. Damage is done to the pet.

Now here we go again in that it really isn'ta big deal bit would make sense to flag.

As a side note griefing for the sack of griefing is lame but more importantly bad fit the shard. Griefing for your own personal gain is what makes this game awesome. Just attempting to frustrate annoy and be a dick is bad for the shard and should be avoided unless someone really deserves it.

 

[N49ATV]

Curse has less effect than disco if cast on a said pet. And neither do any damage, just debuff. If one flags the other should. I think it should flag you just crim, and since a pet, no counts or anything.

I agree griefing for sake of griefing is bad. But some of it is good. I love getting PKed on non combat chars, but when they dry loot or cut up my npc armor on a new char it's lame.

I got rolled by 6-8 pirate PKs, on my dungeon char I'm building, the other night. Was fun. I was playing peekaboo with them, throwing out home alone quotes, they got me, and resed. All in good fun. I don't mind getting looted, and if I get PKed, and resed, I wait till PK is done taking what he earned. And then I go back for whatever might be left.

But killing healers/res killing players after a dry loot is bad for server. But that's a topic for another threaf