drasked
Grandmaster
I could explain it to you, but you probably wouldn't understand it.
Fix Archer or make pots unthrowable while moving.
- Thread starter Streets
- Start date
I could explain it to you, but you probably wouldn't understand it.
drasked
Grandmaster
You seem to have such little understanding of pvp that i honestly think it would be a huge waste of time to explain anything, sorry.
drasked
Grandmaster
I said archery is good and presented evidence. You not being willing or able to objectively examine the evidence is not my problem.
And I countered that the player would have been better off with magery alone as based off your video archery did nothing there. By that same token if it was a "beggar/mage PVP" video would you claim begging is an effective PvP skill? I did objectively consider what was said I just don't see the logic there?
In the video the mount the player rode served more of a purpose than the archery skill did.
Are you saying another skill would not have been a better choice in your opinion? Personally for as much time he spent frozen I would think alchemy a better choice? He could have weaved arming and throwing between his casting more than "arm, disarm, arm miss, miss, miss, disarm,arm miss, miss, disarm, arm, disarm,arm, disarm, arm, disarm,arm, disarm, arm, disarm,arm, disarm, arm, disarm."
Did you read the comments on said video or just link it to the forums?:
"+HELLO HI That template excels at group PVP because most of my damage is coming from mage spells. The archery damage is just to be annoying and to make enemies have to heal themselves. I base my stat decisions more about how much int I think I need, and less so around how much dex I need."
From the creater of the video and your "source" claims archery is just an annoyance!
This is the shit I am sick of people playing Uber combos affraid of balance bringing them back in line.
But if you feel up to it try again
In the video the mount the player rode served more of a purpose than the archery skill did.
Are you saying another skill would not have been a better choice in your opinion? Personally for as much time he spent frozen I would think alchemy a better choice? He could have weaved arming and throwing between his casting more than "arm, disarm, arm miss, miss, miss, disarm,arm miss, miss, disarm, arm, disarm,arm, disarm, arm, disarm,arm, disarm, arm, disarm,arm, disarm, arm, disarm."
Did you read the comments on said video or just link it to the forums?:
"+HELLO HI That template excels at group PVP because most of my damage is coming from mage spells. The archery damage is just to be annoying and to make enemies have to heal themselves. I base my stat decisions more about how much int I think I need, and less so around how much dex I need."
From the creater of the video and your "source" claims archery is just an annoyance!
This is the shit I am sick of people playing Uber combos affraid of balance bringing them back in line.
But if you feel up to it try again
drasked
Grandmaster
You demonstrate again how little you know of the mechanics of pvp with your comments. I would normally bother explaining but it seems to be really lost on you, its almost like you are trolling.
drasked
Grandmaster
Again, nice demonstration of your ignorance. If only the person in charge of pvp balance knew about this info.
"+HELLO HI That template excels at group PVP because most of my damage is coming from mage spells. The archery damage is just to be annoying"
healmagePRO.
Expert
good way to get people to like you.... especially the nice folk like drasked who would otherwise be willing to help you out and teach you a thing or two.......
Both sides acting in bad faith.
I see both arguments. Would prefer if they actually engaged in that argument rather than talk past each other.
Original claim was basically "Archery is bad for PvP
Counter-claim is "here's a video of a PvP fight where Archery is being used"
I mean its in the area but sort of tangential to the point. Archery is considered weak when compared to other weapon choices. Simply showing a video really doesn't comment on archery's strengths or weaknesses.
And I kinda agree. A 300 point skill investment to "just be annoying" doesn't strike me as that useful and doesn't really counter his point at all. Seems to reinforce his point, hence why he's being combative and overly sarcastic.
I see both arguments. Would prefer if they actually engaged in that argument rather than talk past each other.
Original claim was basically "Archery is bad for PvP
Counter-claim is "here's a video of a PvP fight where Archery is being used"
I mean its in the area but sort of tangential to the point. Archery is considered weak when compared to other weapon choices. Simply showing a video really doesn't comment on archery's strengths or weaknesses.
And I kinda agree. A 300 point skill investment to "just be annoying" doesn't strike me as that useful and doesn't really counter his point at all. Seems to reinforce his point, hence why he's being combative and overly sarcastic.
Lkg thank you for being a voice or reason while not escalating things. Also heal mage it's not a tactic to have people like me. I actually work in a community field irl and it's called "the broken record technique" and did what it was supposed to do:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...ggnMAE&usg=AFQjCNEllY7fO7TM73lbBLKeMcLuODpULw
It deescalates a situation. Sorry if it was taken the wrong way but it is effective even if you are not liked for it.
GoD PaRtiCal
Master
While you are completely childish and wrong about everything, I will say that... yes you are still wrong here.
The main problem with archery is not that you cannot throw pots, it is instead with the swing speed. Speed that up slightly and it will be better in small groups or 1v1. That said, it is still good in some areas as shown by @drasked in the video. The current gameplay with it is just not the same as other melee weapons so stop trying to make it be.
As a side note, the idea of using "300 skill points" is a dumb argument, please stop using it here and on stealth conversations.
Well that is a silly statement. It's quite obviously not a dumb argument and is a foundation of any template used.
I'm actually completely baffled by this comment and it's perceived objectiveness.
drasked
Grandmaster
I feel like i was being quite fair as the OP has yet to demonstrate that archery is weak or that he as any clue about pvp for that matter.
If your argument is clinging on to a comment taken out of context from the person in charge of pvp balance, i can't help.
shirtandpantsman
Grandmaster
from your posts I got the typical UOF pvper vibe which is "you're clearly a noob who knows nothing about anything and your ideas are bad and you should feel bad, learn 2 play noob, noob, noob"
Maybe fair as in no one owes anyone else anything so you're not obligated to tell/correct him on anything, but basically he made some fairly innocuous sarcastic remarks about Archery and then you just sorta dropped a montage video on him and acted like that instantly ends the discussion.
He might have gotten better responses by dropping the sarcasm, but really I didn't see much counter-examples from you. Just a stated opinion and video. Not sure what your comment about out of context remarks from PvP balance GM is referring to. I guess I don't follow that point.
GoD PaRtiCal
Master
Skill points are a reflection of an opinion not fact. People think a lot of dumb things about skill points -- "if i pvp I have to have gm resist" or "Poisoning is not useful above 70" -- Same thing applies here. If your character had nothing but 300 skill points and in one character you put Anat/Tact/Swords vs another with Anat/Tact/Archery - they would both be equally good in different situations. The arguement above is that that is not true because it is being based upon other outside influences that form a bias such as preferred gameplay styles and lack of knowledge.
The core argument of this thread is that it is unfair that non-archer melee types can throw pots with 2h weapons equipped. The basis of proof is that not many archer characters are seen in the wild. Truth is, archery is and has never been designed to be an agressive pvp skill alone. It has almost always been accompanied by magery to fill in for it's weaknesses for direct pvp. Archery is a skill focused on safe long range attacks -- this presents a different gameplay style than what is most prevalent in pvp as that "Safe" factor doesn't balance well against "unsafe" melee weapons who typically have a dps advantage because they take a risk to be close up.
When you take away the need for an archer to need magery for DPS (ie give the ability to throw pots), you have negated the weakness of archery and unbalanced the mechanics.
drasked
Grandmaster
He is claiming archery is weak in pvp without any evidence or knowledge to back that claim up.
I simply posted a random vid of archery pvp to have some actual substance in the discussion, his response is saying that it is about as usefull as begging and he couldn't get past the 2 min mark because his eyes are bleeding... sorry but at the point we are looking at it from such different perspectives that i feel it would be a waste of both parties time to further go in to details as was promptly demonstrated by the OP.
He then butchers a quote from jamiez, the person in charge of pvp balance, trying to make it look like he is making archery out to be a mere annoyance.
@shirtandpantsman i felt the OP is being dishonest and did not want to waste my time going in to details with him. I am normally very willing to help people with pvp stuff.