Fairplay Balanced Militia System - Manfro Thread

AreYouKidden

AreYouKidden

Grandmaster
I don't think factions every really provided 20 v 20 fights, but I think that was more based on a lack of large grouping due to a lack of activities.. That said, I understand the concern, having people from different guilds in the same factions, can create some connections, however fair fights still didn't happen, because you rarely have 20 people even on each team logged in, and that's where the original idea of team limits on militias actually excels in the field.

For those guys making PvP connections, there are also random PvP events like capture the flag, and king of the hill where you can make those connections. They really need to get a leader boards up and running for those as well.

Unfortunately for the UO Ecosystem to truly thrive, you really need all the pieces of the puzzle working well.. Otherwise you get an imbalance like there currently is, where PvM is by far the large majority, and PvP is the lesser. PK'rs for the solo PvP'rs, CTF for the randoms looking to meet people, or those waiting for their team to get on, and Militias for the consensual group PvP. CTF's currently aren't run enough, and aside from "just PvP" there's no real incentive to join, and Militias is lacking a reason to fight for control points & activities (or more control points)
 
M

Manfro

Novice
AreYouKidden said:
I don't think factions every really provided 20 v 20 fights, but I think that was more based on a lack of large grouping due to a lack of activities.. That said, I understand the concern, having people from different guilds in the same factions, can create some connections, however fair fights still didn't happen, because you rarely have 20 people even on each team logged in, and that's where the original idea of team limits on militias actually excels in the field.

For those guys making PvP connections, there are also random PvP events like capture the flag, and king of the hill where you can make those connections. They really need to get a leader boards up and running for those as well.

Unfortunately for the UO Ecosystem to truly thrive, you really need all the pieces of the puzzle working well.. Otherwise you get an imbalance like there currently is, where PvM is by far the large majority, and PvP is the lesser. PK'rs for the solo PvP'rs, CTF for the randoms looking to meet people, or those waiting for their team to get on, and Militias for the consensual group PvP. CTF's currently aren't run enough, and aside from "just PvP" there's no real incentive to join, and Militias is lacking a reason to fight for control points & activities (or more control points)
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i totally agree with you, CTF is the pvp action at his BEST and it deserves a lot more attention, i've several ideas how to fix it, but let's start gettin together a well balanced pubblic pvp system, then we may fix CTF and give pvp some space again.
 
M

Manfro

Novice
↑
It really comes down to the fact that the capture points alone aren't enough. You can't put in 2 capture points and say "ok guys, go pvp for those points". It needs to be a well implemented, well thought out, well rounded system. Piecing a few things together isn't going to motivate guilds to group up and fight for something.




Why you Can't? non casual PvPers only want to test themselves vs other PvPers and become bettter, they don't need particular motivations, but some little achievements like in all the games (better title, silver) they will fight just for the fun of it, Motivations are a bit 'overwhelmed' in the game design science,plus they cant be scheduled scientifly becouse every person tends to have his own different motivations, what's more important is the feeling that playng a game create into our brain.
Tetris has the same monotone gameplay, it will make you loose sooner or later without achieving nothign apart a better score, yet it was played for a long time by all the world.
Girana and his team are very well established in the shard, they have 400 mils each, best houses, best pets, best goodies, yet they keep harassing nabs at the champs,trowing SHADE and HATE To the pvpers cathegory, but trust me they are not achieving anything they don't have access yet,unfortunly is just that they have fun executing tamers at champs (easy kills) so they can troll them on discords/ forum showing theyr drops, when they should keep theyr 7-8 pvpers team in voice call, fighting in brit vs other pvp teams.

I'll Repeat what's the main problem, becouse more treads about pvp i see, more i see confusion:
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Unhappiness in a mmorpg community starts when players of a single cathegory start 'fuckin' (hate to use that verb, but it matches perfectly) with players of others categories, exactly what girana's guild is doing, THEN DISCORDS WILL MAKE THE REST.
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Exemple:
Peav and Manfro are two real pvpers, they lol each other after every fight, they call eachother nab after everyfight, but then they restock and coemback more and more without any hard feeling.. they are fighter they dont get offended and they keep doing what they like, still Peav will message manfro when he wants to pvp,even if they been trolling each other, as manfro will do, even if they look as they hate each other if u'd se theyr conversations,theyll build mutual respect, caz they know they need each other to find entertainment, becouse as PvPers they have same goals/expectatiosn from the game.

What is really pushing this nice concorrence OVER THE LIMIT is discords, some idiot will post there some kills, or will spamm MY GUILD WINS AGAIN! just to have the sensation of havin his small peXXs going bigger for a moment, but there start the problems: DISCORDS IS A PUBBLIC PLATFORM WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE , WITH DIFFERENT SENSIBILITY, AND ITS GOING TO SHOW ANYONE THAT TRASHTALK OUTSIDE OF HIS OWN CATHEGORY WHERE IT SHOULD STAY, AND BE TOLLERATED.
BECOUSE SOMEHOW OUR BRAIN WILL BE MORE TOLLERANT WITH MY OWN CATHEGORy.
Exemple im a thief, i just stole a DS relic worth 10 mils, if a pk will kill me ill go mad, if a thief resteals it from me i'll go mad, but in the second case, i'll be a bit lesser mad. Don't ask me why, it's like our brain works only.

A thief will be fighting anotehr thief,
PvMers will be fighting PvMers,
a worker will be fighting a worker (dropping prices, putting more vendors etc)
and everything will be good.

When 10 pvpers on the call will go fight Orks and Knights on foot while they are role playng..... (EQMS STYLE)
or When 10 pvpers on the call will go fight pvm teams with ladies and children... doing a champ on theyr own (VANQ STYLE)
This will destroy armony in the life of the shard.

So @eppy @Shane Or you will create trammel, and kill defintly the shard, becouse cathegorizes here are small, not enough players to populate fel/tram..
Or you build a -->pubblic<-- anti-abuse fairplay balanced pvp system, once we have that consensual good pvp going all day it will be harder for anyone to raid a champ, there will be less hate on pvpers, and noone torturing other cathegorizes.
Then you should SILENCE discords, what you doing there is crazy autogoal man, Shittalking should stay private or ingame where it disappear.......or just BAnn from discords all those who talking about ingame life (WE WIN AGAIN, YOU LOOSE AGAIN, WE ARE STRONG YOUR ARE WEAK etc etc) this is pubblic toxicity and still you let people do it on your channel all day.
 
AreYouKidden

AreYouKidden

Grandmaster
Manfro, one thing I see you commonly leave out of the conversation, or seem to miss in regards to your categories of people, are the large number of people who identify with 2 or more of the categories. UO is a game based upon freedom of choice, with many ways to play it.. There are better PvM games out there, better PvP games out there, I'd be hard pressed to say better crafting games, but there are few games that have all the diversity under one game. And that's what a lot of people come to play UO for.

So when you suggest that PvM'rs shouldn't mess with PvP systems, I believe you are wrong. Because those PvM'rs, may very well enjoy PvP too, and if the larger population would be more interested in a system like PvP, if it saw changes they were interested in, than shouldn't the system be catered towards the majority? Especially considering as you say, the regular PvP'r is going to fight regardless because he just wants to PvP?


Ps. not sure why we brought this convo back over here, unless this is where you wanted to talk about it - let's not talk about it in two threads though, hurts my head :)
 
M

Manfro

Novice
AreYouKidden said:
Manfro, one thing I see you commonly leave out of the conversation, or seem to miss in regards to your categories of people, are the large number of people who identify with 2 or more of the categories. UO is a game based upon freedom of choice, with many ways to play it.. There are better PvM games out there, better PvP games out there, I'd be hard pressed to say better crafting games, but there are few games that have all the diversity under one game. And that's what a lot of people come to play UO for.

So when you suggest that PvM'rs shouldn't mess with PvP systems, I believe you are wrong. Because those PvM'rs, may very well enjoy PvP too, and if the larger population would be more interested in a system like PvP, if it saw changes they were interested in, than shouldn't the system be catered towards the majority? Especially considering as you say, the regular PvP'r is going to fight regardless because he just wants to PvP?


Ps. not sure why we brought this convo back over here, unless this is where you wanted to talk about it - let's not talk about it in two threads though, hurts my head :)
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Ofc there is players who tend to be in more cathegories! those are versatile players who like to proove themself on different fields,

Is not that people should not mess with PvP system, everyone should mess with everything, it's uo is freedom at 360 degrees,is the PvPers that should have some Etic/Control (theyr cathegory stays on the top of the natural chain of the shard,becouse they can affect any other cathegory and being affected only by other pvpers) they should not go butchering nabs around, specially around champs/bosses...funny they don't do it for cash (in that case i'd understand.. i need cash for stock i go to raid once or twice) but just to POST IN DISCORDS the loot they stole lol...This creates strong unahppiness!! pvper should ''fuck'' with other pvpers 95% of the time... if others cathegories want to fuck with pvpers will be always good.

Exemple, i kicked veton from my guild becouse was shittalking fulltime... was defintly not having the behave we pretend in -7- guild,
he was a pvper, we used to pk / militia / fight all day with more pvpers, then Vanq recruited him and bring him to fight nabs in dungeons lol
This is bad, Dedicated fighters shuld look only for more dedicated fighters my friend, anything else will be a problem!
 
M

Manfro

Novice
think the Shard as the Savana, there is Delicate Equilibrium and Balance, Savana is rude (like felucca) everyone kills everyone,but there is that Natural balance that allows all the creatures to live in ''Armony''.

Now let's say that PvPers are the Cathegory big felines (Tigers, Lions)
They are supposed to eat big and fat buffalos,even if can be risky, becouse nature gave them quick legs and big claws to go for that risk, SO is the NATURE that FORCE THEM TO FOLLOW THEYR ISTINCT and hunt buffalos.

What will happen if one day all the lions organize, and say: Let's stop eating buffalos, there is not point of risking to get cut and hurt by big buffalo horns, we are lions, we can eat whatever we want... let's only eat skinny sheeps, instea of a buffalo we'll have ten sheeps per day, and we'll still survive.

Ofc they will still survive, but all the other animals who were eating sheeps will find extintion real fast, Buffalos will grows to much and they will finish grass, and they'll starve...and all the delicated system will collapse....

Let's go back to the shard,
What staff (nature)should do, is watching that noone is tryng to destroy that equilibrium (come on lions stop eating sheeps! go find other lions) Making sure that all the cathegories (specially the pvpers..) are running smoothly in theyr proper habitat (factions), not spending all theyr effort to torture other cathegories...

I tried to explain it more simple i could, but as you see my english is poor, and everything is very complex when it comes to virtual mmorpg dynamics, pm me if somethign isnt clear
 
AreYouKidden

AreYouKidden

Grandmaster
@Manfro, what about the sheep who likes to pretend he's a buffalo or a lion occasionally, there seems to be no allowance for their feelings in your sentiments.
 
M

Manfro

Novice
New@Manfro, what about the sheep who likes to pretend he's a buffalo or a lion occasionally, there seems to be no allowance for their feelings in your sentiments.


it's literally for those im tryng to push this system mate,
Those are the resources to make the shard grow..
that's why i want a ------>pubblic<------- pvp system back.
Exemple :
If me and my guild are running with Shadowlords faction, let's say we are 3,and we tryng to defend / assault gruesome, a random guy in shadowlord will be able to join the fight, put that heal, or that death ebolt spell that will make the difference,and he'll feel the greatest of the lion...
that condition is addictive,hopefully he'll try pvp more, and he'll join my team or others and we'll all be extremly happy to see the shard growing..

I never mentioned them and i thank you a lot for giving me the chance to say that i suggested this system for those people EXACTLY..
to let them join pubblic fights, prevent them from trolls, multiaccounters, and try to give them a positive pvp exeprience for what is possible!
 
M

Manfro

Novice
girana said:
thats the biggest joke i ever read.

just because you both love nothing more as running around on the cheatclient sallos and press target closest all day you are not pvper.
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stop trolling this tread pls, i never played sallos since i came in this community, when i came here the only way to pvp with 22 eqms running around fulltime was joining a big group to rail against the rail, it was shittest show i've ever seen, everyone playng minax, i was forced to join the only decent group i saw around (comptons + power) i hated that kid, i hated sallos, i hated the tempraney allyance with another guild we used to fight , when i saw the ebolt rail i tought WHAT A POISONED COMMUNITY, who would have fun of killing like that?? I am really in love with this game that's why i didn't skip shard / renounce to play, but since now im established, i'd love to fix this system, so that the next players will not have that shit as first impact.

with controlled and splitted % there wont be no more unbalance in pvp scene, (after 7 real days of inactivity you will be removed)
no more trolls using 10 accounts vs people who have 3.
with that tracking system if well done any 8+ railing team will be tracked by anyone (with priority for bigger group)and wont track anything around him, that means they'll be fighting only other zergs preety much, or people who want to fight unnumbered cosciunsly, noone will cry.
New re-designed pvp base in wa halla with 3 sides entrances for daily GREAT raids/defense random funny fights, casual pvpers will FUCKIN LOVE THIS.

This will fix the pvp, and help shard boost numbers that you won't believe @eppy
i'm done repeating my self, my spaghetti english is terrible to write / read, just hope that some sensible ppl will read this and try to push
 
M

Manfro

Novice
Manfro said:
stop trolling this tread pls, i never played sallos since i came in this community, when i came here the only way to pvp with 22 eqms running around fulltime was joining a big group to rail against the rail, it was shittest show i've ever seen, everyone playng minax, i was forced to join the only decent group i saw around (comptons + power) i hated that kid, i hated sallos, i hated the tempraney allyance with another guild we used to fight , when i saw the ebolt rail i tought WHAT A POISONED COMMUNITY, who would have fun of killing like that?? I am really in love with this game that's why i didn't skip shard / renounce to play, but since now im established, i'd love to fix this system, so that the next players will not have that shit as first impact


It was even worst than that, 2nd day i was in the shard lookin at the pvp scene, i went to Marley and ask him ' can i join your crew ' as they were the only one using gheals each other.. i had 1 toon only, was on a horse pvping reds and grey randomly on my beloved Razor, with a 90s magery 80s resist char, he looked at me and said No, you can't join MAGA, then when i tried to join OGS-POWER they also were like No you can't join us, i had to tell them : ok lemme duel your GM if i win, you will let me him in the guild ok?? that's how i met compton, i beated him five x, and they finally let me join the crew, then they FORCED me to download sallos to play with them.
I was like : Welcome to HARD life shard... after other 2 days i really understood how ebolt rail / aquire destroyed the game and how annoyng was playng a 7+ team, and playng with josh compton... and i quit them and had to spend a lot of effort to build my own small team to pvp with.
That's how bad was the life of a pvper starting in this shard.
What if i was a casual pvper? would i've survived all that 'natural selection' ? impossible, i'd have quit for sure.
LEt's not have that happening please, let's fix this shit.
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M

Manfro

Novice
What if i was a casual pvper? would i've survived all that 'natural selection' ? impossible, i'd have quit for sure, OR JOIN THE PURPLES NABS.
LEt's not have that happening please, let's fix this shit.
 
AngloSpanglo

AngloSpanglo

Adept
Create colosseum-style mounted arenas with duel-pit rules. Nocut pvp is too boring and repetitive, and duel pits are too small and simple. If there was actual fun instanced pvp then people would at least have options other than dungeon PKing for action
 
T

toddyboi

Master
Funny hearing PvPvmers aka VANQ complain about no cut PvP being closest target fest but forget they nearly all come in with a mare and dragon thinking people will stay on screen to take endless damage. At the end of the day the big boss doesn't care about the PvP community and you're going to have to deal with it. And for VANQ stay in your rat holes and discord pvp cause you defiantly can't compete in field PvP.
 
AngloSpanglo

AngloSpanglo

Adept
toddyboi said:
Funny hearing PvPvmers aka VANQ complain about no cut PvP being closest target fest but forget they nearly all come in with a mare and dragon thinking people will stay on screen to take endless damage. At the end of the day the big boss doesn't care about the PvP community and you're going to have to deal with it. And for VANQ stay in your rat holes and http://discord.uoforever.com pvp cause you defiantly can't compete in field PvP.
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LOL does anyone in smash even know how to pvp outside big no-cut jousting groups? Lion king doesn't count obviously he's a beast. Lemme know if you want to do some alchy duels
 
T

toddyboi

Master
AngloSpanglo said:
LOL does anyone in smash even know how to pvp outside big no-cut jousting groups? Lion king doesn't count obviously he's a beast. Lemme know if you want to do some alchy duels
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I'll fight you even numbers anytime bud, pits or field. Alchy dueling used to be an art but magic arrow spamming with pots waiting for a lucky stun isn't....gg RNG
 
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