Endgame Ideas and Realism

[Shucky]

Who was kidding? You REALLY can tip cows over in UO.

I read somewhere that you can use an empty pitcher on a cow to get a pitcher of milk. If only it required a decent cooking skill to make things like butter, cheese and chowder. Being able to churn butter and grind meat would be fun, if there were an incentive to do it. Then they have these brewing kits, a novelty for sure but there isn't any benefit to drinking. Food is as overabundant in the game as it is useless. If food and drinks were more useful, perhaps mugs and utensils could also be made useful by allowing food to be consumed quickly as it is now, but without such items, there would be a delay.

Tinkers ought to be able to make meat grinders, carpenters ought to be able to make churns and torches, tailors ought to be able to make bedrolls, pouches, bags and packs. There should be some fun places where only non-magical light sources would allow you to see. The beeswax you can refine from the beehives ought to be useful for making candles and to improve the quality of items made from wood or leather.

 

[halygon]

I don't know why, but I get the feeling you really like games like Cookin Mama and Oregon Trail.

 

[Liberty]

Very cool ideas.

 

[VFingerDiscount]

Food is useless in game?

Sent from Baja 1997

 

[Shucky]

I don't know why, but I get the feeling you really like games like Cookin Mama and Oregon Trail.

Never tried those. But in some earlier Ultima games, you could starve to death and collapse from exhaustion. I wouldn't mind that in UO, but I just think there should be more incentive to maintaining those things. Enough so that cooking would be a relevant craft, and people would routine carry a bedroll and a mess kit, or stop by taverns and inns run by the npcs or by players.

Have you read my other posts concerning inspiration from arts, or about fame-based leadership of henchmen? I bet those kind of things would spice those things up even more than making cooking, eating and sleeping useful.

 

[halygon]

Never tried those. But in some earlier Ultima games, you could starve to death and collapse from exhaustion. I wouldn't mind that in UO, but I just think there should be more incentive to maintaining those things. Enough so that cooking would be a relevant craft, and people would routine carry a bedroll and a mess kit, or stop by taverns and inns run by the npcs or by players.

Have you read my other posts concerning inspiration from arts, or about fame-based leadership of henchmen? I bet those kind of things would spice those things up even more than making cooking, eating and sleeping useful.

Or how about getting tired from running too much or have your horse stop moving because it's tired?

 

[Shucky]

Food is useless in game?

Sent from Baja 1997

Food does restore some stamina provided you haven't already stuffed yourself. Supposedly it helps with skill gain and health regen. In any case, whatever effects are so negligible, or food is so plentiful, that cooking is considered a useless skill. If food were more scarce and more necessary for survival or to keep stats and/or skills up or to get special enhancements, food would be far more valuable and cooking far more relevant.

The same goes for furniture, dinnerware, light sources, clothing, jewelry, art works, books and every other object that can be made or used in the game. If you can make it, buy it or find it, you ought to be able to use it, and if you can use it, it ought to be useful. In other words, everything ought to be useful for something. Otherwise, I think we could do without all of this useless clutter that serves no purpose other than décor.

 

[Shucky]

Or how about getting tired from running too much or have your horse stop moving because it's tired?

Right now, you can't run when your stamina is very low. I'm not sure if the same goes for mounts. Walking and standing already accelerate stamina regen, but sitting in a chair, using a bedroll, or resting in a bed should be incrementally more effective. Having skills and/or stats nerfed if you go too long without a good rest would increase the usefulness of chairs, bedrolls, beds and inns

 

[Shucky]

Very cool ideas.

Would you be willing to rank some of them in order of which you would most like to see implemented?

 

[halygon]

Right now, you can't run when your stamina is very low. I'm not sure if the same goes for mounts. Walking and standing already accelerate stamina regen, but sitting in a chair, using a bedroll, or resting in a bed should be incrementally more effective. Having skills and/or stats nerfed if you go too long without a good rest would increase the usefulness of chairs, bedrolls, beds and inns

That's a slight dodge, but i'll let it pass.

 

[Shucky]

That's a slight dodge, but i'll let it pass.

Well, I should add that I have no problem with players and mounts losing stamina and slowing from too much running, but I thought that long term fatigue would be a separate issue, and that chairs, beds and bedrolls could help restore both short term stamina loss and long term fatigue. Short term stamina would be more of a physical effect, while longer term fatigue would effect the mind and nerf your skills until you rest. I was just trying to come up with a need for chairs and beds, as well as for bedrolls other than for logging out (which few people use them for anyhow). I envisioned players periodically (maybe every couple of hours) taking a short rest break using a chair, bedroll or a bed at their home or an inn, to avoid fatigue and keep their skills at peak level, as well as carrying around a stool or bedrolls to speed stamina recovery to reduce the use of red potions. It was more about increasing the usefulness of those items. People who are hanging around for long periods of time could stave off the effects of fatigue by sitting rather than standing, which would make taverns the preferred place to congregate, rather than at a bank.

 

[Shucky]

Natural selection applies to the computer game industry. Games that evolve and adapt have a better chance to survive and thrive.

 

[Geriatric]

personally id like to see crafting get a buff in this way
you kill a dragon instead of cuts of raw meat you get dragon flanks or some such shit
you cook it up and eat you get a certain percentage bonus for damage to dragons
i still dont like the bed roll idea, forcing your character to be idle for a set amount of time

 

[edw3rdwood]

Personally I don't like this kind of stuff. I have enough going on in my outside life, that I appreciate the simplicity of UO as a timekill. I don't want to have to micro-manage when I sit down, when I eat/drink, when I double click a painting to get a stat boost, time out how long that boost will be and what I can accomplish in it, recall back to my house so I can sit down for 3 minutes so I can solo a paragon, etc etc. I'm not trying to flame/troll honestly, but if you have that much energy and attention for the game I'd suggest channeling it into your life, finding a better job, trimming your hedges, learning how to maintain your own car, keep an exercise routine, study a culture that interests you, read a novel whose title stuck in your head but you never actually read it, etc.

 

[Dellan]

No to stamina drain and exhaustion - it slows speed of things waay too much (coming from passionate player of survival roguelikes, try Cataclysm or UnReal world and you will understand). But yes to simpler form of cooking:

Remove any buyable food from npc, so people can buy food only from player vendors. Ingredients can spawn on the field, when it comes to this.. Normal food works as usual, while grandmaster chef's delicacies will give you SLIGHT chance increase to cast/hit. Just slight, few percent. Ya know, every army marches better with full stomach. This would open new market for those interested in cooking.

 

[Shucky]

Personally I don't like this kind of stuff. I have enough going on in my outside life, that I appreciate the simplicity of UO as a timekill. I don't want to have to micro-manage when I sit down, when I eat/drink, when I double click a painting to get a stat boost, time out how long that boost will be and what I can accomplish in it, recall back to my house so I can sit down for 3 minutes so I can solo a paragon, etc etc. I'm not trying to flame/troll honestly, but if you have that much energy and attention for the game I'd suggest channeling it into your life, finding a better job, trimming your hedges, learning how to maintain your own car, keep an exercise routine, study a culture that interests you, read a novel whose title stuck in your head but you never actually read it, etc.

There were people who felt the same when the only game out there was Pong. Of course there are plenty of people who have no use for games, or are satisfied with particular stages in the evolution of games. Then there are others who have welcomed every evolution over the last few decades, and look forward to games that are increasingly immersive and provide greater options for gameplay and role play. If the changes only gave modest rewards to those who took the time to play them out, there shouldn't be a conflict with those who prefer a simpler play style. Introducing new options should make the game more attractive to a broader variety of players.

I played the game intensely to train up my characters. The server population appeared much higher at the time. Since that time I've noticed an apparent decline in traffic, and I have felt that revolutionary changes might give the server a shot in the arm to reverse the decline. I've made my suggestions with that in mind. I have a busy life outside of the game, too. That doesn't mean the game cant be improved.

 

[Shucky]

No to stamina drain and exhaustion - it slows speed of things waay too much (coming from passionate player of survival roguelikes, try Cataclysm or UnReal world and you will understand). But yes to simpler form of cooking:

Remove any buyable food from npc, so people can buy food only from player vendors. Ingredients can spawn on the field, when it comes to this.. Normal food works as usual, while grandmaster chef's delicacies will give you SLIGHT chance increase to cast/hit. Just slight, few percent. Ya know, every army marches better with full stomach. This would open new market for those interested in cooking.

Stamina drain has always been a big issue in the game, but when I said exhaustion, it was more about mental fatigue if you neglect taking a short rest beyond a couple of hours. You could get warnings as you do for poison, but the negative effect would be a small penalty to all skills until you take a short rest.

I think that npcs and even monsters could still carry food, but better food preparations that have special benefit would require higher cooking skill. That would be enough incentive to seek out special foods and brews from player chefs. Any change in that direction would be great, IMO.

 

[Shucky]

personally id like to see crafting get a buff in this way
you kill a dragon instead of cuts of raw meat you get dragon flanks or some such shit
you cook it up and eat you get a certain percentage bonus for damage to dragons
i still dont like the bed roll idea, forcing your character to be idle for a set amount of time

Special ingredients can add variety and give incentive to hunt certain creatures. It can get out of hand, though. I played dungeons and dragons online for a couple of years, and I though that their variety of special ingredients was excessive. Of course, they did it to give you incentive to pay for storage space. At least in this game, there aren't so many monster types if there were only one special ingredient for each.