Diversifying Mage PvP

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Winstonian

Grandmaster
TyroneG said:
In addition to this can you also avoid the PvP forums and any (terrible) suggestions regarding PvP?
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Nah. I'll happily post wherever. Unless you're 12, it seems strange that you (apparently) don't have the power to control what you read and/or respond to. You'd think, if this stuff bothered you, you just... wouldn't... click? (You might want to talk to someone about that.)
 
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TyroneG

Master
I clicked the thread because it says diversifying mage PvP and that is something I would be interested in. I then read a list of terrible suggestions from someone who is obviously new and/or bad at PvP.
 
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Winstonian

Grandmaster
TyroneG said:
I clicked the thread because it says diversifying mage PvP and that is something I would be interested in. I then read a list of terrible suggestions from someone who is obviously new and/or bad at *UOF PvP.
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Edited. (Although the best PvPers on UOF are tamers, so there's that.)

So please, throw ideas out there. If you aren't going to separate stun and alchy, what kind of mage build diversity is possible? You'd have to buff skills that create equal build(s) to stun/alchy. I'd love to hear some.
 
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Winstonian

Grandmaster
AreYouKidden said:
#bringbackbardmages
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Actually, these would exist right now if the "PvP Elite" didn't rush to the forums and beg for a nerf to tamers in PvP. With tamers being as strong as they were, a 5x mage with music and peace would be an extremely powerful build. Of course, instead of adapting, they begged for (and got) a nerf until their build was back on top.
 
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Winstonian

Grandmaster
AreYouKidden said:
There will always be a meta... it's just how far above the meta is that determines if you have width of playstyles...
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When it comes to mage vs mage, I don't necessarily agree. There are two ways to achieve this: a rock-paper-scissors structure, or continued balancing. Separating stun from alchemy and watching the shift in mage builds would allow for this.
 
AreYouKidden

AreYouKidden

Grandmaster
I have to admit, I'm not really against separating the two when looking at varying mage diversity, the problem is you are taking out a top tier mage, and replacing it with two lower levels, when top tier mages were already slightly below top dexxers... I'm with you, i'd love to see mage diversity, I just don't know that your suggesting takes us there in a viable way.

They put in a 10% damage increase for inscription for a couple of days, and pulled it back out, I don't really understand why, but it seemed like something that might make you chose between alchemy or inscription, depending on your playstyle.. I liked the notion of spending 100 points for a little extra damage.. I guess the though is that inscription + alchemy would have been over powered?

It's very tough to balance increasing mage damage, because of how powerful mages are in groups... I still question why a dexxer increases his ability with exceptional, vanq weapons, and mages have one plain spell book, with no magical properties!?!
 
drasked

drasked

Grandmaster
AreYouKidden said:
They put in a 10% damage increase for inscription for a couple of days, and pulled it back out, I don't really understand why, but it seemed like something that might make you chose between alchemy or inscription, depending on your playstyle.. I liked the notion of spending 100 points for a little extra damage.. I guess the though is that inscription + alchemy would have been over powered?
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I think that change was made based on the false assumption that scribe was underpowered, while in reality stun/scribe is one of the top templates for group pvp.
 
cups

cups

Grandmaster
I tried to read all of this thread but my little brain could only handle the first page and a half. I just wanted to say that poisoning is not that bad on a mage template. It gives you 100% chance to land a poison on anybody regardless of their magic resist skill. So it is good in group pvp when you want that guaranteed poison during a combo drop.
 
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Winstonian

Grandmaster
I absolutely agree with all of that.

I think the key would be then balancing dexers. I don't believe that, because a certain dexer is strong, only one meta mage build should exist.

(To answer your last point: I think it's because of how strong mages really are in groups. That whole precast-target thing makes magic weapons pretty balanced IMO.)
 
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Winstonian

Grandmaster
cups said:
I tried to read all of this thread but my little brain could only handle the first page and a half. I just wanted to say that poisoning is not that bad on a mage template. It gives you 100% chance to land a poison on anybody regardless of their magic resist skill. So it is good in group pvp when you want that guaranteed poison during a combo drop.
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Absolutely. It still falls below stun/alchy in mage 1v1, which makes me thing something should be balanced. If stun/alchy were divided, poisoning may have it's place (next to stun) in that format.
 
halygon

halygon

Grandmaster
I have eyes on this thread. Being in the suggestions and ideas forum, if I see any more flaming, I will take action. Keep it civil in this thread and provide constructive conversations.

#onlywarning
 
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TyroneG

Master
I guess I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish. Every mage build has its pros and cons. Contrary to your belief, an alchy/stun is not the only viable template. Heal mages, scribe mages, and nox mages all have their uses. In fact the only time an alchy stun is better than these others is in a 1v1 scenario. In any sort of group fight the other templates are hands down better.

Nox mages most definitely have their place and are very useful against organized groups with good healers. Guaranteed poisons are very strong as you can tell from the following video of some of the best PvPers heavily relying on it

 
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Winstonian

Grandmaster
TyroneG said:
I guess I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish. Every mage build has its pros and cons. Contrary to your belief, an alchy/stun is not the only viable template. Heal mages, scribe mages, and nox mages all have their uses. In fact the only time an alchy stun is better than these others is in a 1v1 scenario. In any sort of group fight the other templates are hands down better.

Nox mages most definitely have their place and are very useful against organized groups with good healers. Guaranteed poisons are very strong as you can tell from the following video of some of the best PvPers heavily relying on it
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I understand all of that. It's reasonable. But I'm referring to mage 1v1, and in mage 1v1, stun/alchy is the clear-cut meta mage build. This should be fixed.

I have two suggestions under discussion right now, and they sort of work together. One brings casual players, solo players and PvMers into organized PvP, and this one makes it so they don't have to use one mage build to stand a chance in a mage 1v1. This gives the PvP Elite more oranges to kill and potential rewards at the end of the week, and it gives casual players a variety of builds to choose from and a reasonable exchange for their time. This direction is very good for UOF.
 
K A Z

K A Z

Grandmaster
Winstonian said:
I understand all of that. It's reasonable. But I'm referring to mage 1v1, and in mage 1v1, stun/alchy is the clear-cut meta mage build. This should be fixed.

I have two suggestions under discussion right now, and they sort of work together. One brings casual players, solo players and PvMers into organized PvP, and this one makes it so they don't have to use one mage build to stand a chance in a mage 1v1. This gives the PvP Elite more oranges to kill and potential rewards at the end of the week, and it gives casual players a variety of builds to choose from and a reasonable exchange for their time. This direction is very good for UOF.
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This is only to some extent true and the alchystun is definitly not the "clear-cut meta mage build". Not at all! A good player on a healmage can kill a mediocre player on an alchymage anyday. While the alchymage is the best 1v1 mage template, it is not the overall best template for 1v1s. And where is the reason for why it shouldn't be the best 1v1 mage template anyways? I really do not see where you are coming from.
 
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Winstonian

Grandmaster
K A Z said:
This is only to some extent true and the alchystun is definitly not the "clear-cut meta mage build". Not at all! A good player on a healmage can kill a mediocre player on an alchymage anyday. While the alchymage is the best 1v1 mage template, it is not the overall best template for 1v1s. And where is the reason for why it shouldn't be the best 1v1 mage template anyways? I really do not see where you are coming from.
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Ugh... I've always hated that argument. "A great player using wrestling and fishing can kill a toddler running a stun/alchy mage, therefore wrestling/fishing is viable in PvP." You don't compare lesser and greater ability when comparing the effectiveness of two builds... you compare the builds. As has been said numerous times on this server, alchy/stun is the meta mage build. With the number of skills that can compliment a mage, one skillset shouldn't be vastly better than the rest in any situation.

Tell me K A Z: in mage 1v1 only, what would separating stun and alchy do for mage vs mage PvP?
 
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