Diversifying Mage PvP

Winstonian

Grandmaster
(Some of this was taken from another thread.)

It's clear that a meta mage build dominates UOF structured PvP. Throwing potions and stun punch are must have abilities, but this wasn't always the case: explosion potions used to splash, and were therefore unusable in town. In addition, other skills (poisoning for one) used to be highly effective in the field. This isn't the case here.

I've always believed that there should be more viable mage builds.

I feel that Alchemy should be required for potions to deal relevant damage, and that tactics should be modified to prevent potions from splashing. I feel that poisoning should be reworked to make it PvP viable.

Assuming the standard 4x mage skills are:
Magery
Meditation
Evaluating Intelligence
Resisting Spells

Players would have to choose between stun (Wrestling and Anatomy) and a final skill (Poisoning, Inscription, Healing, Alchemy for improved defensive potions or even Hiding) or throwing potions (Alchemy and Tactics), which would require either Wrestling or Anatomy for defense. This would divide the current stun/pot meta mage build... instead, you'd see stun mages running around with other skills, or throwing pot mages without stun. Both would have their strengths, and you'd see different mages on the field... which should be the case anyway.

As for Poisoning, I feel that deadly poison should tick slightly faster in PvP, and should be harder to cure with potions and the cure spell. At even a 50% success rate (example), Poisoning would instantly become more effective.

Running is absolutely an issue on UOF, and there are undoubtedly ways to try and curb it, but giving everyone throwing potions to use in non-running situations isn't that solution. If players still want to use throwing potions, and understandably so, they can... they'll just have to modify their build to accommodate. (This would leave dungeon PvP largely untouched, as splash damage often doesn't matter.)

Any interest in considering changes that diversify UOF structured PvP? @eppy @Swayze
 

Nekronos

Master
I would like to see nox made slightly better for a mage build. I’m thinking your proposal might be too much of a buff, but 10-20% chance at lethal poison at maybe 4 tiles would be nice, as well as a one level bump to poison fields for PvM
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
Thats a lot of words to say "make explo pots awkward for anyone but dexers in towns and do something with poison"
Okay. Then change the requirement from Tactics to something else, like Item Identification. Now all classes have to invest into a different skill to utilize such a powerful PvP weapon.
 

drasked

Grandmaster
Okay. Then change the requirement from Tactics to something else, like Item Identification. Now all classes have to invest into a different skill to utilize such a powerful PvP weapon.

You mean nobody would use it and just avoid fighting in towns, since in all other aspects the splash is already there.
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
You mean nobody would use it and just avoid fighting in towns, since in all other aspects the splash is already there.
Which is perfect. Those that would like to see a variety of mage builds would PvP in town, while those that desperately need expl potions and stun punch would avoid towns. Everyone has options.

You have no problem with the suggestion then, right?
 

drasked

Grandmaster
Which is perfect. Those that would like to see a variety of mage builds would PvP in town, while those that desperately need expl potions and stun punch would avoid towns. Everyone has options.

You have no problem with the suggestion then, right?

Other than your suggestions being terrible, no.
 

drasked

Grandmaster
It's so strange that so many refuse to tinker with the mechanics here. Poisoning, for example. Poisoning was relevant in mage PvP, whereas now it simply isn't. Reworking it and making it viable isn't some insane concept.

What made poison relevant in the past that stops it from currently being relevant?

It seems like a hard skill to balance to me, a few buffs and ppl cant heal a sync anymore.
 

K A Z

Grandmaster
thats like winstonians 10th thread right here.. and he still hasnt started to pvp! But still.. change everything so his and his imaginary casual PVPers start to fight (and chase of the people who actually do spend their time on UO PVPing). Sounds like a great idea!
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
thats like winstonians 10th thread right here.. and he still hasnt started to pvp! But still.. change everything so his and his imaginary casual PVPers start to fight (and chase of the people who actually do spend their time on UO PVPing). Sounds like a great idea!
Huh? I've been here for a long time. I've PvPed plenty in the past, including in factions. What are you talking about?
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
What made poison relevant in the past that stops it from currently being relevant?

It seems like a hard skill to balance to me, a few buffs and ppl cant heal a sync anymore.
It's a good question. The "evolution" of UO has made curing poison so simple that Poisoning is now irrelevant in PvP. It would only help things to tinker (and test) a slight boost to increase its effectiveness.
 

batman

Grandmaster
Huh? I've been here for a long time. I've PvPed plenty in the past, including in factions. What are you talking about?
Im not understanding what is missing for you in pvp?? What ive got out of it so far is you want everyone to use one client(which will never happen) you want some kind of rewards (a moderator came thru one of ur 3 or 4 i cant pvp so no one should pvp threads) and offered solutions which you denied every time.. Can you please just give your main concerns and suggestions so we can move on??
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
Im not understanding what is missing for you in pvp?? What ive got out of it so far is you want everyone to use one client(which will never happen) you want some kind of rewards (a moderator came thru one of ur 3 or 4 i cant pvp so no one should pvp threads) and offered solutions which you denied every time.. Can you please just give your main concerns and suggestions so we can move on??
Ha. Understanding stuff is so hard. I wish we had a forum assist program to help...

I don't care if everyone uses different clients. I was gauging the interest in PvPers trying out the in-game macros for PvP. Clearly, they wont do it.

I don't need rewards for PvP. I was giving a suggestion that would undoubtedly create more activity on UOF and grow this shard. The moderator suggested a system that rewards the established PvP groups, and which would do nothing to actually get casual players into PvP.

Frankly, I think the PvP mechanics are embarrassing. Someone posts a "2v2 DUEL!" video, which consists of players off-screening constantly in a consensual 2v2. It's garbage. Assist programs have completely diluted what used to be a pretty impressive skill and timing-based system. It's trash. Constantly throwing potions 3-4 vs 1 is acceptable. E-peen is so important that players would rather run away for 5 minutes over actually fighting someone else. (Unless, of course, they have an advantage.)

It's cowardly.
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
You know what the truth is though? I have plenty of money and gaming options. I seem to gravitate back to UOF. As much as I love the PvM improvements, the PvP is - as stated above - cowardly and diluted. I just started getting my wife into UOF, and my sons have expressed an interest in playing, but this is simply not a good version of this game (as it relates to PvP). I'm not the only one: many have come to UOF and expressed displeasure with the PvP mechanics just to be flamed away from UOF completely.

So, I think to myself: do I just leave... move along to the next game? Or do I try to make a few suggestions that'll aid the casual player and likely generate more interest in this server? That's exactly what this server needs: options that appeal to the casual player. And exactly what the loud, condescending "PvP Elite" routinely push away.
 

drasked

Grandmaster
Frankly, I think the PvP mechanics are embarrassing. Someone posts a "2v2 DUEL!" video, which consists of players off-screening constantly in a consensual 2v2. It's garbage. Assist programs have completely diluted what used to be a pretty impressive skill and timing-based system. It's trash. Constantly throwing potions 3-4 vs 1 is acceptable. E-peen is so important that players would rather run away for 5 minutes over actually fighting someone else. (Unless, of course, they have an advantage.)

Exactly what mechanics do you think are bad?

Why does a single 2v2 video matter?

What exactly did assist programs do to make UO pvp not take skill or timing?

You're typing a lot, but the guy asked a good question and you seem to dance around answering it directly.
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
Exactly what mechanics do you think are bad?

Why does a single 2v2 video matter?

What exactly did assist programs do to make UO pvp not take skill or timing?

You're typing a lot, but the guy asked a good question and you seem to dance around answering it directly.
What the hell are you talking about? I did answer it directly, and in length. If you want me to expand, no problem, but don't play this "dancing around answering it" nonsense.

1 - Bad mechanics: marathon running being allowed and explosion potions not splashing are two of my very least favorite. If potions splashed, they wouldn't be viable in town, and a variety of other mage builds would be used. A "meta mage build" exists for 1v1, and that should never be the case. I've always felt that there should be a rock-paper-scissors feel to mage PvP, and that's completely lacking here. I also don't feel that the casual PvPer has a place on UOF, and I think that's a huge oversight. (I dislike how certain assist programs provide advantages in PvP, but that's not a mechanic.)

2 - What? My statement was self-explanatory: off-screening in a consensual 2v2 is accepted, and that's trashy.

3 - I'm completely against features that reduce the player's need to react to situations (an example: the "heal/cure" hotkey that auto-targets self, which makes spamming that button a legitimate survival tactic). Assist programs also made it vastly easier to manage ones items, including potions: potion spam (and, of course, auto cure scripts) have significantly changed UO PvP.

Some examples.
 

Winstonian

Grandmaster
That is the third time that has been said about this guys post!!
Seems like he has nc what he wants!! So much he got his last thread locked..
I've made my intent very clear in each post. My last thread was locked because the "flame the person with an opinion that differs from mine" strategy is a great way to silence others. I'd love for that to not happen here.
 
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