God.RG
Grandmaster
SLANDER
Discordance bot
- Thread starter Shurik'n
- Start date
Messremb
Grandmaster
Do you deny that power has chars with EV macros that they leave unattended at champs? i saw it last week at tera champ so i know you do. not that its against the rules, just using it to show an activity that is a form of dual clienting PVM that is allowed, or at least not enforced.
halygon
Grandmaster
Call in a GM when you see this.
Bromista
Grandmaster
Not against the rules. Not at all.
Reads thread further...
Wait, what?
This has never been against the rules and has been in place for the entire life of the server AFAIK.
Multi-client PvM is not the same as multi-client PvP and I think there must be some confusion here.
Are we strictly talking about botting here? As in looping a macro. Because I have been dual client farming for a lonnnnng long time and have never heard a word against it. I do everything 100% manually. Always have, always will.
@halygon I know this has been discussed in the past but clearly we are not all on the same page.
Botting aside, I just don't agree that stopping all actions (Dispelling summons? Stopping firing arrows? Telling pets to all stop?) is necessary to stay within the rules here.
Last edited by a moderator:
Modus
Master
could we have a statement of shane, how are the actual rules now and where are the borders?
VFingerDiscount
Grandmaster
Shane said in irc that as long as you're alt tabbing and not scripting then you're good
signature field is blank
signature field is blank
Bromista
Grandmaster
Thanks. Not many people who I would trust to be accurately relaying official statements from staff, fortunately you are one of them.
halygon
Grandmaster
Let me ask you a question, if you do not stop an action, does it still assist you in PvM (or PvP for that sake) while actively playing a different character? If the answer is yes, then you are multi-clienting and breaking the rules.
Bromista
Grandmaster
Yes, it is assistance. But assistance does not necessarily mean botting and there was always a distinction made between PvM and PvP regarding assistance.
Carl said it was O.K. when he was still staff here. Shane is saying it's O.K. now. I think this needs looked at again and a more clear definition needs to be put forth.
halygon
Grandmaster
In each of the examples you are given, you are gaining an advantage over another player who is only using one character to PvM/PvP.
Auto-Dispelling? --> Advantage via bot
Shooting Arrows while afk --> Arrow turret bot
Allow pet to continue fighting -> essentially making your non-tamer character a tamer
Are you trying to tell me that these "should" be freely allowed (regardless of what people are getting away with)? If so, please explain why, as I am curious how that logic works.
I'm I not gaining am advantage gating my fighter around. Ressing my own characters. Training two characters together. Casting on another character to gain resist.
Simply stating that there exists an advantage is not argument enough against it since it is most certainly allowed in other areas.
What has not and is not allowed is gaining an advantage when combating another player. This is the distinction.
This rule needs to be simple:
Dual client is allowed in pvm only and only without scripting a second char.
Or
No dual client at all. All chars are ported to one account and only one account per Ip. Because anything you use two clients for will always be an advantage over one.
halygon
Grandmaster
I am not sure I understand your argument. Training two characters is not PvM or PvP, neither is gating your character, or ressing your characters. Are you gating or ressing them via an automated script/macro? Because that's the only way i could see if that could be considered multi-clienting.
We are talking about PvM or PvP - two areas of UO that you can gain a distinct advantage in killing another player, gaining loot quicker than you could solo, or taking down spawn that you couldn't do at all solo. Yes it makes things easier, but things are hard for a reason and for balance.
Bromista
Grandmaster
To clarify I don't mean auto-dispelling, I mean not dispelling active summons before tabbing if you get what I mean.
I don't consider performing an action then tabbing botting. I consider looping an attack/target macro botting. By looping it allows your client to "smart" target instead of a dummy action performed once before tabbing.
Getting an advantage in PvM is no big deal IMO. The line has always been drawn at PvP.
If it comes out that we cannot do this in PvM it's going to change the game dramatically for a LOT of people.
Can we get @Shane in on this discussion?
VFingerDiscount
Grandmaster
The response I quoted earlier from Shane was a direct response to me being pked by a person that gated in his red had his pets already attacking me and began fencing me as well. There's nothing more gaining an advantage that that and Shane blatantly said it was okay and as long as there was alt-tabbing and no auto heal/cure scripts etc it was okay so it would be great for a concrete rule so we aren't doing shit we could be banned for because we get different answers from different staff.
Please and thank you
signature field is blank
Bromista
Grandmaster
^ I agree with the above, this is kind of an important issue.
I think it's possible that even if Vfinger spelled things out as clearly as he could that maybe Shane got his words a little mixed up because what he described is pretty fucked up.
I mean, that's fucked up right? Even if it's not involving macros and strictly alt-tabbing, that's still about as multi-client PvP as it gets.
I at least have enough respect not to do that...if someone attacks me when I'm dual clienting I'm only going to actively defend my more PvP capable character.
To do anything more than that is shameful and any self-respecting player would not do that.
I think it's possible that even if Vfinger spelled things out as clearly as he could that maybe Shane got his words a little mixed up because what he described is pretty fucked up.
I mean, that's fucked up right? Even if it's not involving macros and strictly alt-tabbing, that's still about as multi-client PvP as it gets.
I at least have enough respect not to do that...if someone attacks me when I'm dual clienting I'm only going to actively defend my more PvP capable character.
To do anything more than that is shameful and any self-respecting player would not do that.
halygon
Grandmaster
I will check with the staff and get a final ruling on what is "legal" and what is against the rules. Whether it is pvm is acceptable but not pvp or whatever, I will let you know.
Bromista
Grandmaster
Thanks, hoss!
The Real Keith
Adept
Why is everyone just guessing what the rules are, including staff. That rules clearly state on the website the following:
Simultaneously playing MORE THAN ONE SINGLE ACCOUNT at any time is prohibited (Moving on TWO or MORE accounts at any given time). You may be logged into (3) accounts at once, however using both in any sort of mirrored fashion is a bannable offense. (IF CHARACTER x ON ACCOUNT x IS MIRRORING (FOLLOWING, DOING THE SAME AS,) CHARACTER y ON ACCOUNT y)
Is a discord bot "playing"? Is a discord bot "moving"? is a discord bot "mirroring"?
Simultaneously playing MORE THAN ONE SINGLE ACCOUNT at any time is prohibited (Moving on TWO or MORE accounts at any given time). You may be logged into (3) accounts at once, however using both in any sort of mirrored fashion is a bannable offense. (IF CHARACTER x ON ACCOUNT x IS MIRRORING (FOLLOWING, DOING THE SAME AS,) CHARACTER y ON ACCOUNT y)
Is a discord bot "playing"? Is a discord bot "moving"? is a discord bot "mirroring"?
lost
Grandmaster
my tamer has disco and provo with 120 taming and 120 lore. who needs a bot