Craft Instruments via Fletching (instead of Carp+Music)

[Skrypt]

Fletching is quite limited in crafting potential, bows & arrows... that's it.

Seeing the 105/110/115 Fletching Powerscrolls pop up a bit more recently gave me a simple idea:

• ADD crafting of instruments to the Fletching skill
• DROP crafting of instruments from the Carpentry skill
• (optional) DROP the 45.0 Musicianship requirement entirely -or- KEEP it as a requirement for Fletching.

Done.


SHORT TERM, this give extra added value and reasons to invest in the Fletching skill, which has always been an underwhelming craft (vs Blacksmithing / Tinkering / Tailoring / Carpentry). Especially now considering the difficulty in acquiring Powerscrolls (via contracts).

MINIMAL impact would be seen in terms of the upsetting the current status quo of Carpentry being able to craft instruments. Carpentry already has many other useful craftables (furniture / addons / containers / ships). The loss of instruments is not going to ruin anyone's crafter build.

LONG TERM, this would set up the Fletching skills to be able to potentially expand into craftable slayer instruments (much like Blacksmithing can). Look, that's just a potential future idea, but let's say it did happen... an under developed skill like Fletching deserves to benefit from being able to expand into that. It would be weird and a bit unfair to extend Carpentry further to be able to craft more in the realm of Instruments.

Carpentry instruments always felt a bit shoehorned in, especially with the oddball 45.0 requirement that throws a wrench into the dream of a maxed out crafter. And from a lore / realism standpoint, Fletching is a skill in woodworking and strings, who's to say they can't take up the art of instrument crafting like a lute/harp (wood & strings).

Fletching deserves to be more on par with the other crafting skills, This could be an appropriate and helpful change for the skill.

 

[GoldKnight]

You could be right if Bowcraft/Fletching PS were more common and on pair with other crafting PS prices, but they are not. They are quite rare, cost too much and i'm not even sure there are even 120 fletchers around.
Instruments are used by big number of pvmers, doing such thing means just reducing the chance of those exceptional instruments to be crafted.

If fletching PS becomes common, then it can be a solution, but at this stage, meh...

 

[halygon]

I would have to disagree with your point:

MINIMAL impact would be seen in terms of the upsetting the current status quo of Carpentry being able to craft instruments. Carpentry already has many other useful craftables (furniture / addons / containers / ships). The loss of instruments is not going to ruin anyone's crafter build.

It would in fact have maximum impact on most crafters who craft instruments as it is much less common for them to also have fletching.

I like that you want to see fletching become more of a thing, but trust me, the fact that you can craft magical weapons with colored woods is a pretty stout ability for fletching -- I am not sure that it needs a boost of any sort other than maybe having staff introduce new bow types.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Skrypt]

I would have to disagree with your point:


It would in fact have maximum impact on most crafters who craft instruments as it is much less common for them to also have fletching.

I like that you want to see fletching become more of a thing, but trust me, the fact that you can craft magical weapons with colored woods is a pretty stout ability for fletching -- I am not sure that it needs a boost of any sort other than maybe having staff introduce new bow types.

Just my opinion of course.

Thank you for jumping in here @halygon

1) I should clarify:

MINIMAL impact to the overall crafting economy (of blacksmiths, tinkers, scribes, carpenters, etc).
- Instruments being a very small / low value trade, with the Exceptional bonus the only reason to craft & trade.
- No magical properties. No runics. No variety... tamborine & flute = 1 stone, rendering the other instruments unnecessary.

So were talking about that in terms of impact to the overall landscape of crafting / trade... instruments aren't that big of a deal (ie. minimal impact).

VS... changing Armor crafting, Weapons, BOD's, Kegs, Scribing Runebooks... all insanely important crafts/trades that if touched would have a huge (ie. maximum) impact to the server as a whole.


2) Inadvertently you make a case in favor of boosting fletching: "much less common for them to also have fletching."

But also of course the case against boosting fletching (magical bows are stout), with a caveat that boosting fletching with new bow types might be desirable.

How stout is Blacksmithing by comparison? Weapons+Armor+Runics+BODs... quite the variety.

Fletching is currently a one trick pony

 

[Skrypt]

You could be right if Bowcraft/Fletching PS were more common and on pair with other crafting PS prices, but they are not. They are quite rare, cost too much and i'm not even sure there are even 120 fletchers around.
Instruments are used by big number of pvmers, doing such thing means just reducing the chance of those exceptional instruments to be crafted.

If fletching PS becomes common, then it can be a solution, but at this stage, meh...

Right that's part of the issue, Fletching is less common & less accessible.

It's a catch 22.

Hindered by not having enough usefulness/variety because it currently only serves a single customer: Archery.
Trying to increase that variety (such as with this suggestion) is difficult because doing so would put something else into less circulation / supply.

Here's a thought though...
- Allow BOTH Carpentry AND Fletching to be able to craft instruments for a transition period (to keep the supply healthy).
- Allow ONLY Fletching the ability to craft instrument enhancements: slayers, added properties, etc (encouraging more crafters to pick up Fletching as a variety craft skill).

 

[halygon]

Thank you for jumping in here @halygon

1) I should clarify:

MINIMAL impact to the overall crafting economy (of blacksmiths, tinkers, scribes, carpenters, etc).
- Instruments being a very small / low value trade, with the Exceptional bonus the only reason to craft & trade.
- No magical properties. No runics. No variety... tamborine & flute = 1 stone, rendering the other instruments unnecessary.

So were talking about that in terms of impact to the overall landscape of crafting / trade... instruments aren't that big of a deal (ie. minimal impact).

VS... changing Armor crafting, Weapons, BOD's, Kegs, Scribing Runebooks... all insanely important crafts/trades that if touched would have a huge (ie. maximum) impact to the server as a whole.


2) Inadvertently you make a case in favor of boosting fletching: "much less common for them to also have fletching."

But also of course the case against boosting fletching (magical bows are stout), with a caveat that boosting fletching with new bow types might be desirable.

How stout is Blacksmithing by comparison? Weapons+Armor+Runics+BODs... quite the variety.

Fletching is currently a one trick pony

When I bother to fill a vendor with plain exceptional instruments (I just hate having to drag so many over to a vendor and set prices) - They always make a very good margin - much better than armor, which has much higher mat costs. Every bard needs exceptional instruments because they die and lose their own, so they usually buy them in bulk.

 

[Firecrest]

Nah taking away something profitable in one profession instead of fixing another doesn't fix anything.
I can sell out a vendor of music instruments faster then both crafted bows and addons / furniture.

 

[Skrypt]

I suppose theres always resistance to change the current state of things.
Either way I appreciate your thoughts to the post.

Perhaps a better discussion: What would make fletching more relevant/useful? "fixing another" (fletching) as you mention @Firecrest

 

[Skrypt]

When I bother to fill a vendor with plain exceptional instruments (I just hate having to drag so many over to a vendor and set prices) - They always make a very good margin - much better than armor, which has much higher mat costs. Every bard needs exceptional instruments because they die and lose their own, so they usually buy them in bulk.

Gotcha, it's probably a bit more important to crafters than I initially gave credit to.

Curious, what would make it less of a bother to fill your vendors? Do you stock all the instruments or just the low weight ones? @halygon

I'd love to see more done with instruments like all other equipment has been given (added properties, slayers, actual reasons to use heavy instruments like the harp).

 

[Firecrest]

I would love to have the ability to make magical instruments, for bow craft and fletching the rogues talisman with the crossbow bonus should have been something for fletching. Also fletching has magical properties based on the wood but the low end wood market is flooded and cheap making fletching a cheap gm skill with a good resell on crafted items back to the npc.
THe high end wood market is expensive and if you don't craft a vanq or a slayer vanq it is a gamble which a lot of people don't want to make.
The PS 105 - 120 are obtainable by the monster contracts which is a good plan but unless you are a tamer killig 65 ancient dragons
Flecthing is a good skill with a lot of variables and abilities but the PS makes it look worse then it is.

 

[halygon]

Gotcha, it's probably a bit more important to crafters than I initially gave credit to.

Curious, what would make it less of a bother to fill your vendors? Do you stock all the instruments or just the low weight ones? @halygon

I'd love to see more done with instruments like all other equipment has been given (added properties, slayers, actual reasons to use heavy instruments like the harp).

Just tamborines -- So low weight instruments.

 

[AreYouKidden]

I'm not a big fan of the original suggestion, I like to feel immersed in the worlds I play in, I think it'd be silly that a fletcher by trade, would be making instruments. I also think that a tinker scribing magical slayer properties on deeds (instead of scribes) is silly.

I do agree that some of these trades aren't very useful, so I can see why we'd want to bump up fletching & tinkering, I just want to still feel immersed, so taking a trade from where it belongs seems the wrong tact to me.

For tinkers I like the idea of creating better tools for other professions at a higher cost that could help to determine what slayer properties go on items would be a great boost for them, because the trades themselves are still making their own slayers... For fletchers, I don't know much about the trade to begin with, so not sure what would make it better.

 

[Skrypt]

I'm not a big fan of the original suggestion, I like to feel immersed in the worlds I play in, I think it'd be silly that a fletcher by trade, would be making instruments. I also think that a tinker scribing magical slayer properties on deeds (instead of scribes) is silly.

I do agree that some of these trades aren't very useful, so I can see why we'd want to bump up fletching & tinkering, I just want to still feel immersed, so taking a trade from where it belongs seems the wrong tact to me.

For tinkers I like the idea of creating better tools for other professions at a higher cost that could help to determine what slayer properties go on items would be a great boost for them, because the trades themselves are still making their own slayers... For fletchers, I don't know much about the trade to begin with, so not sure what would make it better.

I agree with wanting to maintain immersion.
And as you mention, we also want to balance the crafting professions with the goal of improving all of them in the long run.

You bring up an excellent point about Tinkering being able to craft magical slayer deeds, which is silly yes. Though, I can understand why it would make sense to add (something) extra to Tinkering, in order to bring it into balance with the other crafts. Slayer deeds should live with Inscription, yes.

There are two types of UO crafting professions that we need to consider.

1) Combat Equipment === Blacksmithing / Tailoring / Inscription / Fletching
- Primary focus and value is to provide combat equipment that serve to specific combat roles/skills.
- Armor, weapons, spells, etc.
- 3 of these can offer multiple equipment types to multiple skillsets (Blacksmithing / Tailoring / Inscription), these are objectively better all around.
- 1 of these can offer only a single equipment type to a single skillset (Fletching).

2) Tools & Constructions === Carpentry / Tinkering
- Primary focus and value is to provide NON-combat constructions that serve to enhance, improve, or make possible other roles & gameplay.
- House furniture & addons, storage kegs, tools, traps, locks, etc.
- Currently both can craft some combat related equipment, but are inferior to the combat equipment professions in terms of the depth and complexity they can add to those items. For example, no one is running around equipped with a Gnarled Staff that can't be magically enhanced / on par with Blacksmithing weapons.

... and let's forget cooking exists for now.

Part of the reason why I thought of instruments for this idea is that Fletching is SOLELY a wood crafting profession for Weapons & Equipment.

The 45.0 Musicianship requirement is actually pretty immersive now that I think about it, and it downplays the idea that ONLY Carpenters can make Instruments.... well no, a competent Musician AND Woodcrafter should be able to craft Instruments. Immersion wise, it seems entirely appropriate that either Carpenters or Fletchers could craft a musical Instrument.

Perhaps it's not possible to make certain changes like this though, due to the long tenure / established crafting system that players have come to expect.

But if we wanted to balance our crafting professions in the long term and focus each on being BEST at what they do... then we gotta make some change somewhere.

 

[Elizabeth Gold]

Taking away one of the only profitable items for carpentry and moving it to the most profitable craft ingame... just no.