Changes to stealing.

Darkarna

Grandmaster
All the time there are changes to other classes with either the addition of this or the addition of that, but very rarely, do we actually see any benefits added to the humble thief. As much as anyone loaves it, the thief is a class which has been around for as long as the game has been released. It has been hammered in many ways, it has been ridiculed and spat upon, but the very issue is there are people who still play and thoroughly enjoy it.

My first suggestion is quite simple and probably irrelevant to most, but bring back Vandoren the thief Guildmaster. This guy was the goto guy for thieves, he recruited many of us in our younger days and he became a part of the legend which is UO. Also, reintroduce NPC thieves around the world, not only do they allow people to train hiding and such from them, but they also cement a thieves legacy in Ultima Online, damn they were on the original servers so why not give them a house here?

My next suggestion would be to remove X-Ray vision from NPC's but also reduce the chances of stealing in town by a balanced amount. XRAY Vision is just plain wrong to be honest and I know that many thieves may possibly agree with me.

Thirdly, give us thieves a quest or something to do which only thieves can do and perhaps even our own artifact which boosts our skills. I find it offensive that out of all the classes, the thief is the only class which is constantly neglected from the lore of this game and to be honest is quite disgusting. Here is a snippet from a very old post made by Lord British himself :

The Thief

One day, early in the life of UO, I was participating as a GM and going to the aid of people who requested it. A note flashed across my screen from a woman, who said something like “Today is my first day trying to play UO, and every time I try to leave town a thief steals all my stuff, so I have to restart, and he does the same. If this continues I will quit and never come back to this game.” So I arrived in her presence as Lord British, not that she cared, she did not know or care who I was, and only wanted her problem fixed. I felt I was up to the seemingly simple task. I told her to come with me, and I would escort her out of town. As we left town, suddenly *ZIP* a thief flew across the screen at speeds I could hardly understand, and stole her gear and disappeared! I told her to wait here, as I teleported to try and get in advance of the speedy ruffian. When I finally froze him with a GM command, I revealed myself as Lord British, and told him to leave this poor woman alone, that this would drive away potential new players which we could not allow. Stop or else I would ban him from the game! He begged for forgiveness, and pledged to never do it to her again.

Satisfied, I returned the stolen items to the woman and told her, she should be safe now for at least a while, when *ZIP* the same thief came by again and stole all her items and disappeared. So, I chased him down a second time, and told him, hey, you had been warned, now I am going to ban you. He pleaded and pleaded and exclaimed how exuberance had overtaken him, and that he swore this time he would never do it again! Reluctantly, I believed him, and took the belongings back to the woman, again.

But then, for a third time, the same thief *ZIPPED* by… I froze him to the ground and told him, I was about to ban him! Then for the first time… he broke character, and refered to me out of character as well… “Look Richard Garriott”, he said, “You guys made the rules to this game, the rules include the role of thief, I am playing just as the role would be intended to be played. If the King tells a thief not to steal, of course he will beg for mercy and swear he won’t again. But what do you expect of me… I am a thief!”

After some thought… I agreed with him. So instead of banning him, I teleported him to the far side of the world. Then I gave the items back to the woman who could finally go about her business. After that, I began to think more carefully about the rules we ourselves put in the game, and the inevitable play styles that would come of it.
 

THEREGOESBILL

Apprentice
Stealing Power scrolls should be added but not as a drop for any champ, if you want a stealing PS you must steal it from a champ boss or RDA boss it will never drop. once the boss dies if the scroll wasn't stolen its gone forever. PS. not all champs and RDA will have Scroll so luck of the draw. If you want a 120 theif your gonna have to to Steal for it. not just farm or get lucky. RISK VS reward
 

Darkarna

Grandmaster
Stealing Power scrolls should be added but not as a drop for any champ, if you want a stealing PS you must steal it from a champ boss or RDA boss it will never drop. once the boss dies if the scroll wasn't stolen its gone forever. PS. not all champs and RDA will have Scroll so luck of the draw. If you want a 120 theif your gonna have to to Steal for it. not just farm or get lucky. RISK VS reward

Great!
 

Arch Enemy

Grandmaster
Stealing is already indirectly buffed on here by being able to use the stealing skill while hidden, wait 10 seconds, and then unhide for literally a split second to steal the item and then rehide and instantly stealth away, being able to walk forever without step limit or having to actively use the stealth skill at all.

Not to mention the example of the stealing scripts that bradley posted recently which pretty much does all the work for you while being completely legal iirc.
 

EvilAcid

Grandmaster
Just don't hate on and aggro because of a thief. This is UO, it is supposed to be cutthroat at times. If anything get rid of the bank safe zones, and make it so people have to bank around a bit more and be creative in protecting your assets. It is totally possible, and only through laziness and uncaring does one get swindled beyond a reasonable amount.
 

EvilAcid

Grandmaster
I do understand auto thieving programs being an argument for safe zones too. Would like a good compromise here.
 

MZ3K

Grandmaster
I agree with this entirely.

1. Thieves are fun to play.
2. X-ray vision is ridiculous.
3. The safe zone in Britain spoils the fun. (I play UO:F because there's no risk in WoW.)
 

EvilAcid

Grandmaster
I say we can leave well enough alone with the britain safe zone, that won't change I'm sure. But at least get rid of the xray vision. Already have detect hidden and reveal. People should have to use that.
 

Arch Enemy

Grandmaster
what is this xray vision you guys keep talking about? Is it just if you're wearing a disguise kit NPCs still know you're a thief and call you out on it or what?
 

dobber

Grandmaster
this x-ray vision applies to a lot more things than just the stealing skill. pets are extremely hard to steal in towns with this x-ray implementation. people are also harder to grief with released dragons in town. fucking trammel if you ask me.
 

Kilike

Grandmaster
I'd assume that's what let's the rock throwers in the event smash you from the other side of a building too.

Really needs fixed though for thieves. I haven't made one because of it.

Sent from my SM-G900P
 

THEREGOESBILL

Apprentice
X ray vision or not you can still attack someone ANYWHERE in town (except safe zone) using the game mechanics that have been around since OSI. just need to know how..... X ray is a bit annoying but you can work your way around it.
 

MZ3K

Grandmaster
But I guess really the compromise is the bank safe zones.........oh well, just no hate

The solution to automated walk and rob scripts is just to ban it like auto-mining and lumber jacking. Anyone using it at the Brit bank would be reported pretty quickly.
 

MZ3K

Grandmaster
this x-ray vision applies to a lot more things than just the stealing skill. pets are extremely hard to steal in towns with this x-ray implementation. people are also harder to grief with released dragons in town. fucking trammel if you ask me.

You can steal pets?
 

THEREGOESBILL

Apprentice
you can attack them yes, if someone doesn't physically call guards you can get away with anything in Guard zone. NO NPC WILL PROTECT YOU with my technique
 

Bromista

Grandmaster
Maybe there are a few things that are too harsh for thieves. But there's so much in their favor.

If thieves are to get any kind of a break, in any capacity, then you need to pick at least two things from this list that need to be changed dramatically or eliminated altogether:

Incredibly high success rate for steal attempts compared to days of old
Insta-bank
Insta-stealth
Being able to hold steal cursor for 10s to wait out the cooldown so that you can insta hide and insta stealth after the steal (the delay for not being able to hide immediately after a steal is not nearly long enough)

There was something else I'm forgetting I'll come back to it.

I made my first thief a few months back. Well maybe a year ago but he was a 5x disarm thief I used to stealing faction sigils.

I converted him to a stealth thief and have enjoyed playing him. I have been really quite successful considering I do not script and do everything 100% manual and with no experience. Much of that I can attribute to thief-friendly mechanics. My thief uses four hotkeys for stealing: set last target, last object, use skill stealing, last target. And hiding I guess. Simple.

What sucks is that if you change the mechanics to make things harder on the script thieves you also make things harder on the legit ones too...and scripting is apparently here to stay.
 
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