archery - pvp - moving shot

[LSDjay]

Sorry I forgot most pvpers on here have only ever played uof or uoforever so they dont have a clue what balanced pvp really is.

Alchemy bonus

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alchy bonus and the magnete purple pots sure are a curse to uo.

 

[LSDjay]

i play about 5 different templates, most of which dont have alchemy ! making archery even stronger would be crazy!

archery should not get stronger !!!

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

archery should not get stronger !!!

Archery can barely scratch a warrio in plate with a shield; even without the shield arrows basically bounce off plate.

I'll agree this doesn't help the whole kiting scenario, but arrows are more survivable than a warrior being kited by a mage.

 

[Derwolf]

Archery can barely scratch a warrio in plate with a shield; even without the plate arrows basically bounce off plate.

I'll agree this doesn't help the whole kiting scenario, but arrows are more survivable than a warrior being kited by a mage.

no1 wears play plate unless its for pvm, dex loss aint no joke

 

[LSDjay]

Archery can barely scratch a warrio in plate with a shield; even without the plate arrows basically bounce off plate.

I'll agree this doesn't help the whole kiting scenario, but arrows are more survivable than a warrior being kited by a mage.

Archery could never do that, warrior with shield should hold his own against a lumber and against a spear also..
rock paper and scissors..

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

no wears play plate unless its for pvm, dex loss aint no joke

Dex loss is a few points, -1 to -9; if you don't have the dex to spare on your 'meta-mage' that's a weakness of the build. That's like saying, 'I refuse to put points in health, but I should suffer no ill effects from this choice.'

 

[Deriz]

Right now archery is little used on pvp ..and light crosswbow are nearly a trash can weap..

Why not make just light crosswbow able to insta hit or something like that (or shot on the run every 5-10sec?)

Maybe u need also another skill like arms lore to make that avaiable..to counter op temPlates

Just an idea to make archers.. Pure archers avaiable

@Blair @eppy @Shane @Adam

Normal xbows are actually quite good. Have you ever played an archer template in PvP?? Ive played a bunch of them, scribe archer, alchy archer, archer tank etc and have used the normal xbow lots with great success. Ive fought groups of mages outnumbered on an archer tank and done just fine ask @Malkraven ive dropped players 2v1 before on that template you just need to change your strategy and play it effectively. Ive also ran into a group of 5 players with an explo up, heavy + exp fs and dropped people. That is pretty effective if you ask me.

If you give people the ability to shoot while running on archers.... oh man.... people thought the crying about alchy was bad? Wait until some of the decent pvpers are chasing you down throwing purples at you and shooting you on the run...

Kiting verse....? Mages can't attack mages with spells unless they stop and cast allowing the other to catch up or cast one of their own. and then they must close the distance to 'magic range' (8 tiles I think) at which point both mages can 'launch' the spell; this is not kiting in the true sense.

The ONLY way to attack past the 8-tile range that I know of is bows, which fire at 10-tiles (not x-bows; they have the same 8-tile limit). Otherwise you're again tossing explosion potions back-&-forth, and again, if you can counter-attack it's not true kiting. The only true problem with this is that leather armor verse a bow HURTS (unless, of course, that leather armor is invulnerable-leather; the "Invulnerable" tag grants 25 AR [plus base item AR] regardless of armor piece used). And if that is a problem use heavier armor.

Of course... you can't meditate in platemail; which I suspect is the basis of your objection.

Spell range is 12 tiles (pretty sure, its been a while since i looked) , heavy xbow range is 6 tiles,xbow range is 8 tiles (could be wrong cant remember for sure), bow range is 10 tiles.

I dont mean any offense but you do not seem to have much of a grasp of current mechanics here.

As for your comment about the video being based off the skill level, of course it is, you have to balance the game based around players that are of relatively equal skill, if you cannot compete with a template that does not mean it isnt balanced. I have 1v1d some of the better alchy mages, STUN TAMERS (ghost), heal mages, scribe mages, etc and beat them on an archer tank. I have also killed tons of ppl on an alchy archer dexxer.

Everyone thinks that Alchy is the be all end all template, however most people do not even run an alchy mage, most people run a heal mage, or a scribe mage.

People run cookie cutter templates because they cannot think outside the box and play their templates to the strengths. I think most would agree though there are quite a few viable mage templates.

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

Range of 12?

Mages are so pampered, I swear.

Yea... you got me on the range, but if that's that only mechanic i'm wrong on, you've only supported my case by pointing out that mages can fire from even further away. xD

 

[Czech Razor]

Normal xbows are actually quite good. Have you ever played an archer template in PvP?? Ive played a bunch of them, scribe archer, alchy archer, archer tank etc and have used the normal xbow lots with great success. Ive fought groups of mages outnumbered on an archer tank and done just fine ask @Malkraven ive dropped players 2v1 before on that template you just need to change your strategy and play it effectively. Ive also ran into a group of 5 players with an explo up, heavy + exp fs and dropped people. That is pretty effective if you ask me.

If you give people the ability to shoot while running on archers.... oh man.... people thought the crying about alchy was bad? Wait until some of the decent pvpers are chasing you down throwing purples at you and shooting you on the run...




Spell range is 12 tiles (pretty sure, its been a while since i looked) , heavy xbow range is 6 tiles,xbow range is 8 tiles (could be wrong cant remember for sure), bow range is 10 tiles.

I dont mean any offense but you do not seem to have much of a grasp of current mechanics here.

As for your comment about the video being based off the skill level, of course it is, you have to balance the game based around players that are of relatively equal skill, if you cannot compete with a template that does not mean it isnt balanced. I have 1v1d some of the better alchy mages, STUN TAMERS (ghost), heal mages, scribe mages, etc and beat them on an archer tank. I have also killed tons of ppl on an alchy archer dexxer.

Everyone thinks that Alchy is the be all end all template, however most people do not even run an alchy mage, most people run a heal mage, or a scribe mage.

People run cookie cutter templates because they cannot think outside the box and play their templates to the strengths. I think most would agree though there are quite a few viable mage templates.

I agree with most of this, but let's not confuse your ability to get kills on these templates with balance.

If you want to argue that having to be skilled using your template should grant you higher reward I would agree in theory then point you to the dp alchy dexer.

 

[Czech Razor]

i play about 5 different templates, most of which dont have alchemy ! making archery even stronger would be crazy!

You can g heal through all archery shots and they miss half the time.

Its like we cant buff anything because paired with exp pots it becomes OP. What do you think the real issue is there?

 

[Deriz]

Range of 12?

Mages are so pampered, I swear.

Yea... you got me on the range, but if that's that only mechanic i'm wrong on, you've only supported my case by pointing out that mages can fire from even further away. xD

I havent supported your case in the least. Ive actually played archer templates in PvP, dexxers and mages alike and got just as many kills as on other templates.

I agree with most of this, but let's not confuse your ability to get kills on these templates with balance.

If you want to argue that having to be skilled using your template should grant you higher reward I would agree in theory then point you to the dp alchy dexer.

Well, when you 1v1 some of the better STUN TAMERS, or an alchy mages on an archer tank and kill them by doing the right things and playing your template to its strengths, however they can kill you by doing the right things and playing their template to their strengths, and whoever makes a mistake dies... how is that not balanced? I mean that is about as balanced as youll see...

Also dp alchy dexxers are not an issue.. I dont understand where youre trying to go with that? I kill them all the time on all kinds of templates...

If dp dexxers are hard for some people, maybe they do not understand their own templates? idk..

 

[Deriz]

You can g heal through all archery shots and they miss half the time.

Its like we cant buff anything because paired with exp pots it becomes OP. What do you think the real issue is there?

I think the skill level of the people complaining is the issue. Sure you can gheal through archery shots, you can gheal through explo ebs too.

What kind of offense are you gunna get by just ghealing over and over? Its no different than anything else, if you dont want to fight on this server you can just run forever with no mount fatigue, so you can just gheal and run the whole time sure, but what template can you not do that against?

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

You haven't AGREED with me, but pointing out mages have range beyond even a bow you have supported my argument.

Can you point out another mechanic I've been mistaken on?

 

[Deriz]

You haven't AGREED with me, but pointing out mages have range beyond even a bow you have supported my argument.

Can you point out another mechanic I've been mistaken on?

Magery powerscrolls, and what does range of weapon have to do with balance? How fast can you cover 2 tiles while running? a fraction of a second.

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

2 tiles verse bows only; 4 verse x-bows, and 11 verse melee. But Razor made a great point about purple pots.

The scrolls I had no idea; never played past T2A till I joined uoforever in '07 (where upon I quickly left after being explosioned/recalled 7 times in a row on a young account; balanced my ass, uoforever!)

I understand tactics though, and that threat bubble given to mages via range is (to quote Drumpf) "YUGE!"

 

[Blair]

FYI bows and spells have the same range of 12 tiles. I just checked to make certain.

Also heavy x-bows pierce armor. Last time I tested I shot someone with 100+ armor, and shot someone with 0 armor. The damage was virtually identical.

Archery is in a good spot balance wise. I question whether you guys have even tried PvPing on an archer template, or just PvM with them and only fight PKs when they attack you. I also really dislike the argument 'no one plays x template so it must not be good in PvP'. Archer mage is probably my favorite template for group fights, I would play it way more if I didn't have to be testing different templates all the time.

 

[Deriz]

2 tiles verse bows only; 4 verse x-bows, and 11 verse melee. But Razor made a great point about purple pots.

The scrolls I had no idea; never played past T2A till I joined uoforever in '07 (where upon I quickly left after being explosioned/recalled 7 times in a row on a young account; balanced my ass, uoforever!)

I understand tactics though, and that threat bubble given to mages via range is (to quote Drumpf) "YUGE!"

Still missing the point of your range arguement... if you want to bring up irrelevant things into this thread, mages require mana which runs out after 1 chance at killing someone, last I checked an archer or a dexxer can swing all day long, They can also throw potions from the same range as mages forcing an action from the mage to close the distance. Mages have to stop to cast spells again allowing other classes to close that distance...

Again... missing your point about range... Range is completely irrelevant in this discussion, and I think that archery is FAIRLY(close to being) balanced. I.E can be used effectively in 1v1 or group PvP. Tweaks to this such as shooting on the run etc would make it more OP than I believe you know.

 

[Deriz]

FYI bows and spells have the same range of 12 tiles. I just checked to make certain.

Also heavy x-bows pierce armor. Last time I tested I shot someone with 100+ armor, and shot someone with 0 armor. The damage was virtually identical.

Archery is in a good spot balance wise. I question whether you guys have even tried PvPing on an archer template, or just PvM with them and only fight PKs when they attack you. I also really dislike the argument 'no one plays x template so it must not be good in PvP'. Archer mage is probably my favorite template for group fights, I would play it way more if I didn't have to be testing different templates all the time.

Yeah I thought I might be wrong on that one, itd been a while since I tested it. Either way, range is not really relevant here. Also agree with your 'no one plays x template...' sentiment, I like the archer mage as well for group fights.

 

[Rikket_The_Rogue]

I Capture the Flag with Arcane Archer all the time. I have two characters that I play: Sword n Board & the archer, though he's a stealthy arcane archer and I can't use that particular build in Capture the Flag.

I just NEVER see these other builds you guys are talking about. I'd like to see some vids of these templates.

 

[Czech Razor]

I think the skill level of the people complaining is the issue. Sure you can gheal through archery shots, you can gheal through explo ebs too.

What kind of offense are you gunna get by just ghealing over and over? Its no different than anything else, if you dont want to fight on this server you can just run forever with no mount fatigue, so you can just gheal and run the whole time sure, but what template can you not do that against?

My point is I have killed stun tamers like that morriss dude on steam only using magery and out of all potions 1v1. Does that mean 5x gm mage is balanced to that template?


Regarding dp alchy dexers, my point was the skill required to kill someone in a non open world space with that template is much less than say an archer mage or pvp thief right?