Archery love...

[wreckognize]

well I'm not wrong if that's what you're implying sir

 

[LSDjay]

sir, peeveepee on this shard has been tweaked so much , it doesnt look like anything from OSI.

 

[dobber]

I think the meta dexxer talisman covers a lot of the unique gameplay options for archers including double strike, poison arrows, tread, phase shift. Having poisoning skill improves poison arrows and having stealth+hiding improves the phase shift. A lot of good was done. Unfortunately, all this good does not improve the game-play very much for archery. A lot of damage is lost in having to constantly (at least 3 times a minute) unequip/chug/reequip. Most meta dexxers have switched to using one handers becuase of the constant pot chugging requirement. It makes it so tread and phase shift have the downside of needing to constantly waste time resetting the swing timer that could have been used to just shoot more arrows. It's much more work for much less reward, which doesn't make sense to me. The best idea on this thread by far is the ability of chugging of non-purple pots with bow equipped. Do this.

 

[Streets]

I belive pots other than purple is fair as well it does not add to our damage and there is no 1 handed bow.

So this would not increase farming, would give a little survival when running in pvp nothing would change but would be a quality of life change for those with the skill.

Please consider looking into it.

 

[wreckognize]

@PVPMANAGER

 

[EnviousGL]

I think the main advantage of archery is not having to be next to your target, even out of magical range (with a bow). I love using archery too but I agree with the fact that if it gets any real buffs...Groups of archers will roll harder than they already do.

The only change I can really agree with is being able to drink cures/tr/heals...Even than thats a big change.

 

[wreckognize]

any more user friendly we can make this game is great for new players. If allowing archers to chug pots seems too OP then tack on a swing delay after drinking, or make it take 100 skill points to have the ability etc.

Personally tho I don't see why it would make anyone want to use archers in groups compared to mages or fencer/macer/alcys, arrows barely do any damage and they have a chance to miss.

 

[Streets]

"I thinkthe main advantage of archery is not having to be next to your target, even out of magical range (with a bow)."

While it sounds great on paper archery had huge drawbacks to compensate that. The slower swing timer not being able to use a shield (agreed all 2 anders have thus restriction yet there are no archery 1 handers) needing a resource (arrows/bolts) the only 2 hander with no special abilities, the only 2 hander that can't throw pots. Also let's look at range attacks, spells don't miss , maybe resisted, pots never miss unless user error always explode and can be used while moving.

Now arrows can't be used on the move, miss quite a bit can be negated by armor and be parried? No special abilities no 1 handers slow swing speaks even for the fastest weapon.


So what I am saying is archery is taxed heavily for its "range" but not compinsated any where else. Which is why I think chugging pots is not unreasonable when it will not contribute to the class damage output at all, just gives a quality of life enhancement.

 

[Young Star]

Whatever OSI publish it was that introduced quivers I believe was the same one that fixed a bunch of mechanic issues inherent with archery from the beginning. I tried to dig up the description of what all that included but no luck.

I did come across other free shard discussions talking about how messed up the original code for it is compared to how melee mechanics are.

 

[Streets]

Whatever OSI publish it was that introduced quivers I believe was the same one that fixed a bunch of mechanic issues inherent with archery from the beginning. I tried to dig up the description of what all that included but no luck.

I did come across other free shard discussions talking about how messed up the original code for it is compared to how melee mechanics are.

Quivers fixed a weight of arrows/bolts added a few perks like chance to not use resources reduce swing speed resistance etc they where just some bandaid fixes and looked cool lol. The never fixed any of the issues unfortunetly. Never really used them as I left the game because that was the time they where doing crazy changes like weapons that did elemental damage and needing frost resistance energy resistance etc. Was not uo any more by that point (not the quivers fault lol)

As for the code I can only imagine! I know the original gms on official shards even stating the same things and using that as the crutch why archery was never fixed at the time either.

Which is why chugging pots is so perfect! That little perk to help out without giving archers too much damage or change their game play.

But thanks for doing your own research and contributing to the discussion

 

[Young Star]

I believe I was remembering patch 25 where they did a bunch of PvP fixes. I think what actually got implemented was a lot less then what was promised at the time but I remember it did do a lot of good fixing imbalances. I am really not sure how free servers work with regards to the version of gameplay used and how they freeze it at a certain era of UO. I don't know if all the swing speed stats and all that are based off of what they were from UO back then or if they are using the current OSI settings and tweaking what is necessary to make it more like pre-UO:R

http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_25

• PvP spell damage increase cap of 15% from an item’s magic property – spell damage increase is also derived from intelligence and inscription

• Maximum swing rate capped at one swing per 1.25 seconds

• Damage required to interrupt bandaging reduced from 26 to 19 for PvP only

• Archers can now move immediately after firing
• Archers must hold still for a minimum of 1/2 second before firing

I also wouldn't mind seeing some of the other bows added but that is probably a pie in the sky ask. Composite, short bow, and repeating crossbow in particular.

 

[halygon]

"I thinkthe main advantage of archery is not having to be next to your target, even out of magical range (with a bow)."

While it sounds great on paper archery had huge drawbacks to compensate that. The slower swing timer not being able to use a shield (agreed all 2 anders have thus restriction yet there are no archery 1 handers) needing a resource (arrows/bolts) the only 2 hander with no special abilities, the only 2 hander that can't throw pots. Also let's look at range attacks, spells don't miss , maybe resisted, pots never miss unless user error always explode and can be used while moving.

Now arrows can't be used on the move, miss quite a bit can be negated by armor and be parried? No special abilities no 1 handers slow swing speaks even for the fastest weapon.


So what I am saying is archery is taxed heavily for its "range" but not compinsated any where else. Which is why I think chugging pots is not unreasonable when it will not contribute to the class damage output at all, just gives a quality of life enhancement.

Archery also can have a higher hit rate than any other weapon class as the tactics modifier contributes to the archery skill instead of the tactics skill. This plus range is a huge bonus in combat - yes it does meant that you have to have a +25 weapon to take full advantage, but with the craftable runic-esk bows, this isn't really even an issue of finding them.

 

[Streets]

Yea see paly any necros where mentioned in this latch which means it's just past uof era. And I mentioned before about missing if you move after firing an arrow or not being able to swing and having to stop before firing again (only 1/2 second but add in latency for the server to detect stopping and what now it feels longer)

I wonder if these fixes ever made it in to uof. Again still pushing for chug able pots

 

[Streets]

Archery also can have a higher hit rate than any other weapon class as the tactics modifier contributes to the archery skill instead of the tactics skill. This plus range is a huge bonus in combat - yes it does meant that you have to have a +25 weapon to take full advantage, but with the craftable runic-esk bows, this isn't really even an issue of finding them.

That being said though ever other magic weapon skill has a damage modifer meaning you are still going to hit alot harder.

I am not saying you are intentionally doing this but you make it sold like "woe is me" for every weapon other than archery. Here is a good way to determine maybe? Look at the server stats of all king of the hill, duels, and such (anything that has the least probability of being a gang fest pre set up) . Post a demographic of all archers that won all mages that won all macers that won etc and if all ballance out evenly I will concede that archery is just fine and I am just a bad player.

Otherwise I am telling something is just not right! I got multiple toons and played original shards something feels wonky. I am not saying I have the answers I just nearly gave a few sugestions with pot chugging being the most realistic fair idea.

 

[Streets]

Or maybe a even add a 1 handed bow of some sort so we can chug with ot disarming like the other weapon skills have the option to do? But that feels even more outside the uof era. Right now archer has 1 option the bow. Nobody uses xbows or heavy they are too slow. And we have no 1 handed option we are forced into 1 weapon give us something to work with.

 

[wreckognize]

its true, the bonus for other weapon skills is the damage. Archery just doesn't put the damage out, thus making it a defensive weapon skill in pvp.

When it was decided that archery would not be able to throw purple potions while equipped, at that time armor was basically useless. Then a patch came in to make armor actually worth wearing, which made archery fairly useless in PvP. Even against mages, but especially dexers.

To balance this out, I feel like allowing archers to drink non explosion potions with the bow equipped will balance the templates. Still waiting for any feedback from PvP management on this one. I think it's @Blair but not sure

 

[wreckognize]

to be honest theres been quite a few posts about archery being worthless in the last 8 months since the armor buff.

I've personally offered suggestions for making arrows penetrate armor better, which makes sense, but no staff has commented.

If they truly didn't like the idea, then a good alternative might be to make archers better at healing themselves.

As it stands right now, if you put an archer up against any melee class wearing armor, the melee class will be able to heal right through all the damage, even if the archer hits every shot, which doesn't even happen. All while the archer is taking explo pots and concussion/crushing/paralyzing blows...

Fact is, archery is broken, we know why it was broken (armor buff) and we have seen great suggestions for how to fix it easily in one day. Sure you can still PvM as an archer, but even on a full PvP template you are forced to run from a melee pk purely because of flawed game mechanics. We're shunning a whole market of new players who enjoy archery and want to pvp but can't.

I know this all started before our new PvP manager even came to the shard so he probably doesn't know about the problem. So hopefully he reads this and will consider one of the options for a fix that are posted here.

 

[Streets]

Well wreck if you been mentioning it for 8 months I am just numb founded there has been no response positive (acknowledge of a problem) or negative (suck it up quit being bad) either way. But either way bro I feel your pain lol

 

[wreckognize]

everyone feels it, even if all that is felt is the complete lack of a weapon skill in the field.

it's not that they're afraid of making it overpowered due to it being ranged, it's just because nobody knows it's a problem since all an archer can do is PvM and run on this server, so nobody's ever seen how pathetic the damage is against chainmail

when I was suggesting AR penetration with arrows and bolts before, I mentioned how it was basically like shooting a tree at someone so why does a GM bascinet block 90% of the damage? But nobody listens man. Lets just hope the priority of the new PvP manager is to balance out the existing templates

 

[Blair]

Heavy X-bows have the highest base damage in the game, yet someone stated no one uses them. Interesting.

I don't think allowing archers to use heal pots and cure pots while having a weapon equipped makes much sense, as they can already run forever with bandaids, and attack from range, so it would eliminate one of the few weak spots in the template (when they don't have a bow equipped).

Archers are by far the best dexer class for group PvP, so them being weak 1v1 is acceptable if not expected.

I've already said I'm not planning on looking at archery until Booty Island dungeon has been released as I'm sure they will be very strong there.