An Additional Detect Hidden Change is Needed to Balance

[King Dingaling]

right...it does make a sense of balance. although unless you actually play a thief with tracking, they will say it's not balanced just because we walk 45 tiles and find out your target is not there...

just seems to me this place is really trying to block the use of thieves, and im unsure why.

when you have 64 tamers doing an rda trying to get a 6 million dollar egg, but you complain and me stealing your magery skill scroll....? its peanuts what thieves actually get when you compare the time one puts into tracking down targets and actually figuring a way to steal it... and bank thieves stealing 8 mandrake root, im not talkin about you

 

[Sommerella]

So i guess the reveal spell, as its sole purpose is to reveal, should not reveal you?? If i am stealthing through anywhere, and suddenly i am revealed, i should at least get a glance of who revealed me. How do you get to get to nullify my gm stealthing with no repercussions at all, and god forbid you are tracking me with 0 tracking, so now you shut down two gm skills with one skill, still makes no sense.

I really think @SidX already made really good points about not getting yourself revealed. Especially if you yourself are stealthing. Its the rogue template. What kind of gm rogue gets revealed by their own doing? It just doesn't make sense. Just because youve been found and revealed doesn't entitle you to know who did it. That's part of the fun of it. Trying to find who's revealing you, I take it as a challenge.
I like this game the way it is. I play more than a few templates. Maybe my problem is I'm too live and let live. Maybe I should get more upset and complain about the pidly stuff, like others do more often.
I choose not to. This though. This. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[King Dingaling]

So i guess the reveal spell, as its sole purpose is to reveal, should not reveal you?? If i am stealthing through anywhere, and suddenly i am revealed, i should at least get a glance of who revealed me. How do you get to get to nullify my gm stealthing with no repercussions at all, and god forbid you are tracking me with 0 tracking, so now you shut down two gm skills with one skill, still makes no sense.

9.8 times out of 10, when i reveal someone, they IMMEDIATELY cast reveal. and im screwed, because i usually get killed when im caught doing that lol

 

[Toriad]

Make a Last Target->Hide macro that completes your detect and rehides you instantly.

Momentarily flashing your name on the screen of someone who's probably AFK anyway is barely even worth getting worked up about. If they're at the keyboard, they already figured out someone is there when their character came out of hiding.

It seems to me this is targeted at the people who stealth around revealing people just for the sake of being disruptive.

 

[SidX]

I really think @SidX already made really good points about not getting yourself revealed. Especially if you yourself are stealthing. Its the rogue template. What kind of gm rogue gets revealed by their own doing? It just doesn't make sense. Just because youve been found and revealed doesn't entitle you to know who did it. That's part of the fun of it. Trying to find who's revealing you, I take it as a challenge.
I like this game the way it is. I play more than a few templates. Maybe my problem is I'm too live and let live. Maybe I should get more upset and complain about the pidly stuff, like others do more often.
I choose not to. This though. This. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

Yes. To "be able to see who revealed me" is a lame reason for this change. Everybody has the ability to cater their skillset to counter the thief. Just like they have the ability to counter every other template. It's your decision when it comes to what to do with your 700 points. If you want to find thieves, gain in Detect. We had to gain in Tracking and Detect to find you, so you should counter it if you don't like it. That's the beauty of UO. For every action, there can be a reaction.

What about when a mage casts Reveal off-screen, runs into a champ and casts it on the floor to reveal everyone... we have no way of knowing who casted Reveal. Why isn't that being challenged?

When there are four EVs on the ground, why can't there be a player's name above the EV to show who casted it?

When a moongate is opened at WBB for "CHECK OUT THIS LOADED IDOC" that actually leads to a 3x3 room full of ancient wyrms, why isn't there a location above the moongate so we know where it's going?

When we open a tinker-trapped box, why don't we know who trapped it?

See my point..? You can't solve every problem. Some things you have to deal with.. and that's how it should be.

If you don't like thieves, counter it. Work your template to do so, don't just rely on the admins nerfing thieves. I thought this was UO:R Fel-only? Now everyone wants 7x GM thieves to get revealed instantly upon using Detect? Lol.

 

[Sommerella]

Yes. To "be able to see who revealed me" is a lame reason for this change. Everybody has the ability to cater their skillset to counter the thief. Just like they have the ability to counter every other template. It's your decision when it comes to what to do with your 700 points. If you want to find thieves, gain in Detect. We had to gain in Tracking and Detect to find you, so you should counter it if you don't like it. That's the beauty of UO. For every action, there can be a reaction.

What about when a mage casts Reveal off-screen, runs into a champ and casts it on the floor to reveal everyone... we have no way of knowing who casted Reveal. Why isn't that being challenged?

When there are four EVs on the ground, why can't there be a player's name above the EV to show who casted it?

When a moongate is opened at WBB for "CHECK OUT THIS LOADED IDOC" that actually leads to a 3x3 room full of ancient wyrms, why isn't there a location above the moongate so we know where it's going?

When we open a tinker-trapped box, why don't we know who trapped it?

See my point..? You can't solve every problem. Some things you have to deal with.. and that's how it should be.

If you don't like thieves, counter it. Work your template to do so, don't just rely on the admins nerfing thieves. I thought this was UO:R Fel-only? Now everyone wants 7x GM thieves to get revealed instantly upon using Detect? Lol.

Once again...^^^^

 

[King Dingaling]

on a roll! lol


i wonder what went into this decision and what influenced it..? was there a thread complaining..because i would of liked it to be discussed and ideas kicked around instead of just changing it...like everything else that gets changed

 

[SidX]

Simple solution to this change: If it's going to stay, any mage who casts reveal becomes permagray on those who he/she reveals.

Let the mage rage begin.

Because that's pretty much what happened to thieves.

 

[Toriad]

Simple solution to this change: If it's going to stay, any mage who casts reveal becomes permagray on those who he/she reveals.

Let the mage rage begin.

Because that's pretty much what happened to thieves.

My biggest problem with Detect Hidden -- and the Reveal spell -- is that people can do it just to mess with you without recourse. Finding the person revealing me is only the first step if I'm not allowed to do anything about it without taking a count.

This idea isn't that weird. You just have to resolve the problem of people not knowing who they're revealing before they do it.

 

[wreckognize]

can't see the catfish for the sea of tears

beware @SidX

also, try to think of it like hey, ok, so these guys want to try a different approach. At least try to work with the idea of it. They're really not re-inventing the wheel here with this change, it's actually more on par with the norm now than before..

 

[King Dingaling]

so detect hidden doesnt work unless you have tracking?

that would be hard to pass...if your concerned about griefing, thats all across the board. killing wandering healers so u cant res.....now thats a whole days conversation there and nothing was done about it (not saying nothing will be done). if that was the target, then it was kind of like a blind shot..which i doubt happened.

 

[Sommerella]

My biggest problem with Detect Hidden -- and the Reveal spell -- is that people can do it just to mess with you without recourse. Finding the person revealing me is only the first step if I'm not allowed to do anything about it without taking a count.

This idea isn't that weird. You just have to resolve the problem of people not knowing who they're revealing before they do it.

If its a thief that's doing it, and you catch them by all means get your vengeance. Thieves can't give counts.

(Edited for clarity)

 

[King Dingaling]

people need to realize this game will NEVER be perfect. there are too many things to do, and different styles of play. you cant make everyone happy, so making pvmers play without worry and dismantling a thief (again) was the target here. guess i need to complain about why i cant play my character and how to ***** and cry instead of adapting.....

 

[wreckognize]

killing wandering healers so u cant res.....now thats a whole days conversation there and nothing was done about it (not saying nothing will be done). .

I doubt they would make wandering healers invulnerable especially because killing them is nostalgic. There's even a guild devoted to killing healers in moonglow. I think part of the nostalgia for many players is that healer killing in moonglow was one of the more profitable ways to bring up weapon skills from 50-80 back in 1997

 

[Toriad]

so detect hidden doesnt work unless you have tracking?

that would be hard to pass...if your concerned about griefing, thats all across the board. killing wandering healers so u cant res.....now thats a whole days conversation there and nothing was done about it (not saying nothing will be done). if that was the target, then it was kind of like a blind shot..which i doubt happened.

I don't care about griefing or griefers. I care about being allowed an opportunity to attempt to retaliate.

The fact that they still allow people to kill wandering healers doesn't --and shouldn't -- preclude them from trying to reduce other forms of griefing.

 

[Toriad]

If its a thief that's doing it, and you catch them by all means get hour vengeance. We can't give out counts. Idk anybody who isn't a thief that just reveals for the fun of it. That's mostly what thieves do when they are bored. So the taking a count thing shouldn't be a problem BC you won't have to.

It's my thief that this usually happens to, and I'm not interested in the risk of taking a count as a thief for the prize of an empty corpse.

Either way, this is a separate discussion for a separate issue.

 

[King Dingaling]

no but my point was it was a priority to "stop thieves who grief" by using the reveal skill over the topic thats talk about relentlessly (pks that grief). if you dont like being revealed, reveal me! not nerf my skill to where i fuck myself over playing my own character. there are ways around everything in this game, making skills almost useless is not the way it should be done

 

[Sommerella]

It's my thief that this usually happens to, and I'm not interested in the risk of taking a count as a thief for the prize of an empty corpse.

I'm sorry I must of read that wrong.
If they flag you, you can kill them and they can't count you. They will be grey to you if they do that. All you have to do, is get them to flag you. I find that its pretty easy. I've killed plenty of those who've attacked me. Never once been counted.
But if all they are doing is revealing you, then the only trick Is to get them to flag you.

 

[Toriad]

no but my point was it was a priority to "stop thieves who grief" by using the reveal skill over the topic thats talk about relentlessly (pks that grief). if you dont like being revealed, reveal me! not nerf my skill to where i fuck myself over playing my own character. there are ways around everything in this game, making skills almost useless is not the way it should be done

I disagree that it makes the skill almost -- or even slightly -- useless.

It still seems like a pretty mild change to me, but then, no one has given any examples of the ways they use it (as thieves) other than to catch people who are AFK anyway.

 

[King Dingaling]

im gonna take an educated guess and assume your a thief that has disarm...? magery to kill others that attack you..?

you clearly dont use this skill.....