SidX
Grandmaster
Hi folks.. I didn't want to make this too long but I assure you I believe it's worth a few minutes of your time.
For TL;DR, scroll down to the bottom for my proposal.
I'm returning to UO:F after a pretty long time away and primarily play a thief. When I played in the past my primary income (and main source of enjoyment playing this server) was from hunting stealable rares. I did do minimal player thieving but not too much. There was nothing that kept me playing this server as much as the thrill of hunting stealables and navigating the world looking for unfound rares.
However, I see now that stealable rares have been entirely removed from the server with the exception of nostalgic OSI ones. While I do support decisions being made that benefit the majority of the server (i.e. 10% of the population will dislike the idea, while 90% of the population will support it), to me removing stealables has removed a significant amount of what kept me here.. and I'm sure I speak for some other thieves as well.
After some extensive thinking, I really just can't wrap my mind around why stealables were removed. Who would "dislike" stealable rares enough to be happy that they were removed? If anything, doesn't this mean less player thieving while the thieves are busy rare hunting? I'm just failing to find the decisive reason that made this make sense to the UO:F team. IMO, this only limits the desire for thieves to play UO:F. Perhaps that was the goal, though, but I think many people often forget that thieves are a class of their own.
Being a thief isn't all about just stealing from people and annoying them at the crafting area. There is a lot of skill involved for good thieves that goes beyond just winging it at the bank trying to steal a stack of mandrake root. It's a craft, and like all professions in this game I'm a firm believer that there needs to be some secondary incentive beyond strictly stealing from other players to keep thieves happy. Take BODs for crafters, for example. For me, stealables satisfied this 'secondary incentive' desire.
I like to think of it this way.. crafters have BODs. However, BODs only immediately benefit crafters until they are either sold or turned in for rewards, thus generating extra income beyond simply crafting. There are BODs that are harder to get that produce a more lucrative return, and there are BODs that are easier to get that produce a less lucrative return.
Well, for thieves, stealable rares were basically our "BOD", if you will. They were a secondary incentive to play the game that provided a way to produce income and enjoyment aside from strict player thieving. Like BODs, some stealable rares were less rare, and others extremely rare. They only immediately benefited thieves until they were either sold or traded producing a return, just like BODs. I know both are different in other ways, but to each class, BODs and stealables are that "extra mmmph" that keep things interesting when all else gets tiring. As a dedicated thief, removing stealable rares is essentially as much of a change to the thief class as removing BODs would be to crafters.
I'm voting for a return of stealable rares, but not as they were implemented before. The main issues with stealables were (a) static spawn locations, (b) relatively static timers (i.e. monthly, weekly or daily with slight fluctuations in exact precise timing), and (c) the fact that ANYONE could steal them with no actual Stealing skill. I really think this is what frustrated people.
Basically, if you were the first to find a rare spawn, it was yours forever until you shared the location.. all you had to do was check the spot daily until it respawned and you essentially had the spot locked down with a time. When JoeB released his first round of stealables, I remember some buddies and I locked down a good number of rares for MONTHS until spots were leaked. I understand the annoyance to others, but the problem was not us-- it was how they spawned.
My Proposal:
My proposal is to re-implement stealable rares, but with the following changes to make the system be more acceptable for everyone while adding more risk to the reward:
In Shane's post announcing the removal of stealable rares, the main reason I saw was just that it is a system that benefits "FEW", and not all. But isn't that what makes UO great? Not everything can or should benefit everyone. This is a game of choosing paths. What about BODs? They don't really benefit everyone, just crafters. On that note, what about meta pets? Don't they only benefit tamers? What good are they to anyone else? I guess my point is that we shouldn't be eliminating systems that add plenty of enjoyment to the game and, most importantly, keep players online, just because they aren't useful to some. If you've never played a thief or hunted stealable rares, it's hard to understand my point here. But trust me, with them fully removed, much of the draw has been drained for me to return, and probably others as well.
I would like to start a discussion on actual ways we can re-implement them to make it more "fair" for everyone. To those of you who disliked stealables, why? What didn't you like about them? How did having them implemented detriment your gameplay on UO:F? And thieves, please chime in. What are your thoughts?
Thanks for your attention and I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
For TL;DR, scroll down to the bottom for my proposal.
I'm returning to UO:F after a pretty long time away and primarily play a thief. When I played in the past my primary income (and main source of enjoyment playing this server) was from hunting stealable rares. I did do minimal player thieving but not too much. There was nothing that kept me playing this server as much as the thrill of hunting stealables and navigating the world looking for unfound rares.
However, I see now that stealable rares have been entirely removed from the server with the exception of nostalgic OSI ones. While I do support decisions being made that benefit the majority of the server (i.e. 10% of the population will dislike the idea, while 90% of the population will support it), to me removing stealables has removed a significant amount of what kept me here.. and I'm sure I speak for some other thieves as well.
After some extensive thinking, I really just can't wrap my mind around why stealables were removed. Who would "dislike" stealable rares enough to be happy that they were removed? If anything, doesn't this mean less player thieving while the thieves are busy rare hunting? I'm just failing to find the decisive reason that made this make sense to the UO:F team. IMO, this only limits the desire for thieves to play UO:F. Perhaps that was the goal, though, but I think many people often forget that thieves are a class of their own.
Being a thief isn't all about just stealing from people and annoying them at the crafting area. There is a lot of skill involved for good thieves that goes beyond just winging it at the bank trying to steal a stack of mandrake root. It's a craft, and like all professions in this game I'm a firm believer that there needs to be some secondary incentive beyond strictly stealing from other players to keep thieves happy. Take BODs for crafters, for example. For me, stealables satisfied this 'secondary incentive' desire.
I like to think of it this way.. crafters have BODs. However, BODs only immediately benefit crafters until they are either sold or turned in for rewards, thus generating extra income beyond simply crafting. There are BODs that are harder to get that produce a more lucrative return, and there are BODs that are easier to get that produce a less lucrative return.
Well, for thieves, stealable rares were basically our "BOD", if you will. They were a secondary incentive to play the game that provided a way to produce income and enjoyment aside from strict player thieving. Like BODs, some stealable rares were less rare, and others extremely rare. They only immediately benefited thieves until they were either sold or traded producing a return, just like BODs. I know both are different in other ways, but to each class, BODs and stealables are that "extra mmmph" that keep things interesting when all else gets tiring. As a dedicated thief, removing stealable rares is essentially as much of a change to the thief class as removing BODs would be to crafters.
I'm voting for a return of stealable rares, but not as they were implemented before. The main issues with stealables were (a) static spawn locations, (b) relatively static timers (i.e. monthly, weekly or daily with slight fluctuations in exact precise timing), and (c) the fact that ANYONE could steal them with no actual Stealing skill. I really think this is what frustrated people.
Basically, if you were the first to find a rare spawn, it was yours forever until you shared the location.. all you had to do was check the spot daily until it respawned and you essentially had the spot locked down with a time. When JoeB released his first round of stealables, I remember some buddies and I locked down a good number of rares for MONTHS until spots were leaked. I understand the annoyance to others, but the problem was not us-- it was how they spawned.
My Proposal:
My proposal is to re-implement stealable rares, but with the following changes to make the system be more acceptable for everyone while adding more risk to the reward:
- Stealing any stealable rare will carry a chance to make you criminal. This goes for in-and-out of town, making you vulnerable to guards and other players. Criminal chance can be correlated to Stealing skill as follows:
0.0-10.0 Skill: 90% chance of being flagged criminal
11.0-20.0 Skill: 80% chance of being flagged criminal
20.1-30.0 Skill: 70% chance of being flagged criminal
30.1-40.0 Skill: 60% chance of being flagged criminal
40.1-50.0 Skill: 50% chance of being flagged criminal
50.1-60.0 Skill: 40% chance of being flagged criminal
60.1-70.0 Skill: 30% chance of being flagged criminal
70.1-80.0 Skill: 20% chance of being flagged criminal
80.1-90.0 Skill: 10% chance of being flagged criminal
90.1-99.9 Skill: 8% chance of being flagged criminal
100 Skill: 5% chance of being flagged criminal
11.0-20.0 Skill: 80% chance of being flagged criminal
20.1-30.0 Skill: 70% chance of being flagged criminal
30.1-40.0 Skill: 60% chance of being flagged criminal
40.1-50.0 Skill: 50% chance of being flagged criminal
50.1-60.0 Skill: 40% chance of being flagged criminal
60.1-70.0 Skill: 30% chance of being flagged criminal
70.1-80.0 Skill: 20% chance of being flagged criminal
80.1-90.0 Skill: 10% chance of being flagged criminal
90.1-99.9 Skill: 8% chance of being flagged criminal
100 Skill: 5% chance of being flagged criminal
As you can see, risk is reduced with the more points you dedicate to Stealing but no player is ever safe.
2. Some stealable rares will have a chance of breaking. The more delicate the item (i.e. ruined paintings, etc.), the higher the chance of the item breaking. This means that any rare has the potential to break when stolen, eliminating the 100% guarantee of obtaining the item once it spawns.
3. Vary the spawn locations. Having dedicated locations where particular items spawn makes stealables very monotonous and creates frustration with hunting them. Rather, have stealables spawn in more than one location. If one item spawns in two locations, for example, only one could spawn at a time adding some randomness to it.
4. Vary the timers. Strict "daily", "weekly" and "monthly" timers do nothing but cause people to camp spots and grab an item the second it spawns. Wider windows are needed. Sure, have daily rares, but have a two-step timer method like this:
a) A "checkers" item spawns and is a daily stealable rare
b) A player steals the item and awaits the respawn
c) 20 hours later, the "checkers" is eligible to respawn again but will now spawn randomly within the next 8-10 hours
I guess this idea is somewhat similar to IDOCs. The set timers until the end-stage are the same, but once the end-stage is hit (i.e. a house goes IDOC or a spawn timer is ready to spawn), the actual time from that point forward is randomized.
b) A player steals the item and awaits the respawn
c) 20 hours later, the "checkers" is eligible to respawn again but will now spawn randomly within the next 8-10 hours
I guess this idea is somewhat similar to IDOCs. The set timers until the end-stage are the same, but once the end-stage is hit (i.e. a house goes IDOC or a spawn timer is ready to spawn), the actual time from that point forward is randomized.
In Shane's post announcing the removal of stealable rares, the main reason I saw was just that it is a system that benefits "FEW", and not all. But isn't that what makes UO great? Not everything can or should benefit everyone. This is a game of choosing paths. What about BODs? They don't really benefit everyone, just crafters. On that note, what about meta pets? Don't they only benefit tamers? What good are they to anyone else? I guess my point is that we shouldn't be eliminating systems that add plenty of enjoyment to the game and, most importantly, keep players online, just because they aren't useful to some. If you've never played a thief or hunted stealable rares, it's hard to understand my point here. But trust me, with them fully removed, much of the draw has been drained for me to return, and probably others as well.
I would like to start a discussion on actual ways we can re-implement them to make it more "fair" for everyone. To those of you who disliked stealables, why? What didn't you like about them? How did having them implemented detriment your gameplay on UO:F? And thieves, please chime in. What are your thoughts?
Thanks for your attention and I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
