Swayze
Grandmaster
Okay so we have established the rewards that you want Winstonian.
Now, how do we give them to PVPers in a way that cant be exploited?
Now, how do we give them to PVPers in a way that cant be exploited?
A Possible Solution to The Problem of PvP
- Thread starter Winstonian
- Start date
Winstonian
Grandmaster
"Can't" is a pretty tall order, considering how frequently players try to cheat in games such as this. But, if we can agree that desired rewards would generate far more interest in PvP, I think that an adequate system could be developed, and would be beneficial.
My suggestion was to have the total amount of damage done in PvP by each individual player be considered. That way, it doesn't favor groups over a solo player. Restrict this system to militias and O/C, have gains in houses not be added, and have a daily cap of damage that one gets credit for against each individual person. Perhaps kills get a slight boost. There are far smarter individuals on UOF that could provide suggestions on improving this system, or proposing a better one. I just feel that, as in anything else, incentives will bring the casual players to PvP.
Swayze
Grandmaster
I am trying to avoid going in circles in this thread but it seems like its the direction we are headed.
What would stop me from creating 2 guilds, have 2 PVPers on each, and kill one another?
The key in all of this is to have a system in place that can't be exploited and doesn't require manual enforcement.
What would stop me from creating 2 guilds, have 2 PVPers on each, and kill one another?
The key in all of this is to have a system in place that can't be exploited and doesn't require manual enforcement.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
The daily gain cap against one player.
Swayze
Grandmaster
Again, that doesn't prevent anything. I can get my cap each day by not PVPing for a large reward in the end.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Sorry. Perhaps I wasn't clear.
There would be a daily cap against each individual player, but no daily cap for the player himself. If I choose to PvP all day, I could accumulate (example) 4,000 damage. The damage cap against each individual player may be (example) 200. Fighting/killing one player repeatedly would provide no benefit once I've reached that 200 damage. In this example, I gained that 4,000 damage by reaching that cap against 20 random enemies. Players who participate more stand to gain more damage, and increase their chance at a better reward.
Swayze
Grandmaster
Okay, thats fine but that still doesnt solve the exploit issue.
My thinking in this is something similar to a punkte system where you get 1 point for a kill only if the other person has a positive punkte. Each time you die you get -1. Now this isn't completely flawless as I could set up multiple characters, go out and get +1 punkte and then kill him with my alt to get that +1 punkte.
My thinking in this is something similar to a punkte system where you get 1 point for a kill only if the other person has a positive punkte. Each time you die you get -1. Now this isn't completely flawless as I could set up multiple characters, go out and get +1 punkte and then kill him with my alt to get that +1 punkte.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Out of curiosity, what remains the exploit issue with the suggestion?
The problem with making it kill based is the system will - again - only favor the groups. The solo, casual player won't participate because he stands no chance of competing against the groups. A punkte system is great for factions or militias, as it relates to their respective rewards, but does nothing for the solo player, or growing PvP as a whole.
Swayze
Grandmaster
I have explained the exploit issue above. I think with any change or suggestion we will always cater to a suggestion that helps/benefits a larger quantity of people. Not to say we never want a solo player to benefit but our focus would never be on a very small group of people (aka the solo PVPer) because of the cost/benefit of writing the code.
The solo casual player is very very rarely going to be our focus because there is just so little of them.
The solo casual player is very very rarely going to be our focus because there is just so little of them.
Lexington
Grandmaster
Are you sure there aren't many of them?! If the above is true it might be why?
Maybe its just your definition of what a casual player is cause I'd consider my self as a casual player.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Oh wow. If that's the mentality, then I understand the current direction of UOF PvP, but I strongly disagree with it. I think there are plenty of casual players who loved UO for its PvP and would participate now if the odds weren't so significantly stacked against them.
The flaw in your argument here is that this suggestion benefits the current PvPers as much, if not more, than the casual, solo PvPer. The current PvPers will routinely find themselves near the top of the damage done chart, considering that they're the ones most comfortable with the mechanics and are already active. The benefit for the "mainstream PvPers" is two-fold: 1) they get rewarded for enjoying their playstyle, and 2) they have more (and easier) targets to fight. It's ideal.
Swayze
Grandmaster
I knew what I said would be taken out of context even though I said "Not to say we never want a solo player to benefit". Of course if the idea is good, it really doesn't matter who gets impacted by it.
The problem is, I have yet to read a suggestion in this thread that cannot accomplish the 2 main points:
1. Cannot be exploited
2. Does not require manual intervention from staff
The problem is, I have yet to read a suggestion in this thread that cannot accomplish the 2 main points:
1. Cannot be exploited
2. Does not require manual intervention from staff
Swayze
Grandmaster
Not really because any idea I come up with typically allows exploiting or manual intervention.
The only thing I could think of was similar to the punkte system but that was quickly shot down above because it didnt cater very well to solo casual PVPers.
The only thing I could think of was similar to the punkte system but that was quickly shot down above because it didnt cater very well to solo casual PVPers.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
I asked earlier, and I've read back over things, but I didn't see it. Is the exploit in my suggestion the fact that someone can "cheat" the system by using two accounts to get a minimal, borderline irrelevant, amount of gain?
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Well, and the punkte system, which was the standard for a long, long time, can be easily exploited, which would rule it out.
Swayze
Grandmaster
If the rewards are relics, powerscrolls, clothing, etc..... it is 100% relevant, not irrelevant.
Swayze
Grandmaster
Correct but at least it forces you to play and increases the difficulty to exploit dramatically and you would have to PVP to get positive punkte because you would only receive a punkte point if you killed someone who is a positive punkte player which would always stay with you.
Winstonian
Grandmaster
Only the top [X] players for that given (day/week) would have a reasonable chance at obtaining relics, powerscrolls, clothing, etc. It's not to pretend that one could use two accounts, gain the minimum single-target benefit, then earn a relic. The chance to gain a relic (example, 50%) would be for those in ranks 1-5.
Swayze
Grandmaster
Thats fine. We could do a raffle system and maybe punkte seasons. We wouldn't do it daily. Probably monthly.